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Old 03-03-2010, 12:25 AM   #1
bendib
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Anyone else think GNOME 3 will be AWFUL?


The following is a bit of a rant. Please excuse the shouting.

I saw GNOME 3 on YouTube, and it really pissed me off. It looks like they are going to FORCE Compiz on you! Do you like Compiz? I don't. Is your machine even POWERFUL enough for Compiz? Some of mine ain't! And sure, they say they will let you use the panel, FOR A WHILE! Why oh WHY does GNOME assume all users use their mouse as a footpedal??? Well, I got NEWS FOR YOU, GNOME!!! Most of your users are GURUS!!! I might not hate that new UI for GNOME 3 so much if it at least didn't require compiz, which is feasible. I would have switched to KDE4 if it didn't have 100,000,000 bugs! Now, I happen to like the Nautilus file browser and I do love the panels. GNOME is my default UI, but all my systems are Compiz free, so GNOME, if you are listening, listen close. Most of your users are gurus. We do not like being treated like cavemen. GNOME shell would be perfectly dandy if it was a SECONDARY interface, but I do not want or need compiz, Hmkay? Oh, and GNOME shell would be great for netbooks, but not your manly desktop that sounds like a lawn mower, so please don't make Shell the default!
 
Old 03-03-2010, 01:02 AM   #2
elliott678
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There is a lot more out there than just Gnome and KDE, those are just the most mature and fully featured environments. Not everyone needs everything they offer, so something lighter like Xfce would do just fine for many people or LXDE which is even lighter.

I ditched the big two many years ago, I went through an Xfce phase for a while and was very happy with it. I still like Xfce, but I have been playing with lighter and lighter solutions lately. I went through an {Flux,Black,Open}box phase for a while and really started liking the minimalist aspects of a basic window manager that stays out of my way. Currently I am into tiling window managers, such as wmii, XMonad, dwm and my current favorite Awesome.

Also, I think you are a little off, a majority of Gnome users are not "gurus", they are average users who just want something pretty to look at as they click around. Considering Gnome is the default environment for Ubuntu and Ubuntu is has a large user base that is new to Linux and are afraid of the terminal. Gnome seems to be trying to please the new users, the Windows converts, so they are trying to be as flashy or more flashy than the latest Windows release. That has pretty much been their goal for as long as I can remember.
 
Old 03-03-2010, 01:29 AM   #3
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Not to get too far off topic, but I'm starting to get disillusioned with Debian for the move to grub2. Forcing me to compiz is not going to be the way to gain my undying loyalty, either. I suppose I understand the need to keep up, but can't we keep the legacy stuff going as well until us old farts die off? What's this going to leave me with? Am I stuck customizing Lenny from now on? Will I have to join the migration to *shudder* slackware?
 
Old 03-03-2010, 07:02 AM   #4
MTK358
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I thought that most "gurus" don't use desktop environments?

I thought GNOME was intended mainly just for newbies who are used to Windows.
 
Old 03-03-2010, 07:11 AM   #5
aus9
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hi

I like LXDE...I surely do.

Quakeboy02

if you don't like grub2 why can't you install grub (gfxmenu or legacy)?

2) if you use LXDE, I don't think you get a chance to run fancy graphics.
 
Old 03-03-2010, 08:45 AM   #6
reed9
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Um, GNOME 3 doesn't use Compiz by default. It couldn't possibly, for one, since a huge number of graphics cards don't support 3D compositing.

The window manager in GNOME 3 will be mutter, based on the clutter toolkit.

More on mutter.

As for me, I ditched GNOME, KDE, and XFCE ages ago. Openbox and pekwm do everything I need.
 
Old 03-03-2010, 09:55 AM   #7
MBybee
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reed9 View Post
Um, GNOME 3 doesn't use Compiz by default. It couldn't possibly, for one, since a huge number of graphics cards don't support 3D compositing.

The window manager in GNOME 3 will be mutter, based on the clutter toolkit.

More on mutter.

As for me, I ditched GNOME, KDE, and XFCE ages ago. Openbox and pekwm do everything I need.
I read from the roadmap that it would be Metacity:
http://live.gnome.org/RoadMap#GNOME_3.0
But maybe I'm misreading it?
 
Old 03-03-2010, 10:23 AM   #8
reed9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MBybee View Post
I read from the roadmap that it would be Metacity:
http://live.gnome.org/RoadMap#GNOME_3.0
But maybe I'm misreading it?
Mutter is the window manager used by the new GNOME Shell. Maybe there will still be an option to not use the GNOME shell and use Metacity? I don't know.

Another thing to note, regarding the original Compiz comment, as I understand it, you will not be able to run Compiz with the GNOME Shell.

http://gnomejournal.org/article/85/e...ul-gnome-shell
 
Old 03-03-2010, 10:55 AM   #9
pixellany
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Quote:
I thought that most "gurus" don't use desktop environments?
What??? I would like to assume that a "guru" uses the best tool for the job....that is very often a GUI.

Quote:
I thought GNOME was intended mainly just for newbies who are used to Windows.
Double-What??? In the default configuration, KDE is more "Windows-like" than is Gnome.


My only comment for the OP is an easy one: Don't like Gnome? don't use it.
 
Old 03-03-2010, 11:02 AM   #10
catkin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quakeboy02 View Post
Will I have to join the migration to *shudder* slackware?
That would be *shudder* as in a frisson of eager anticipation, what?
 
Old 03-03-2010, 11:30 AM   #11
MBybee
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reed9 View Post
Mutter is the window manager used by the new GNOME Shell. Maybe there will still be an option to not use the GNOME shell and use Metacity? I don't know.

Another thing to note, regarding the original Compiz comment, as I understand it, you will not be able to run Compiz with the GNOME Shell.

http://gnomejournal.org/article/85/e...ul-gnome-shell
I see that here: http://lwn.net/Articles/344734/ and in your links, but I'm wondering why the 'official' Gnome roadmap shows Metacity. Strikes me as... odd.
 
Old 03-03-2010, 11:57 AM   #12
elliott678
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pixellany View Post
What??? I would like to assume that a "guru" uses the best tool for the job....that is very often a GUI.
He didn't say no GUI, he said no desktop environment. Desktop environments like Gnome, KDE and even Xfce and LXDE are considered bloated and intrusive by many "gurus", they prefer window managers that are infinitely more tweakable than the average desktop environment.

Since you are on the Arch forum, take a look at the monthly screenshot thread in th "Artwork and Screenshots" subforum to get an idea of what some "gurus" are using.

Last edited by elliott678; 03-03-2010 at 11:59 AM.
 
Old 03-03-2010, 12:23 PM   #13
reed9
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He didn't say no GUI, he said no desktop environment. Desktop environments like Gnome, KDE and even Xfce and LXDE are considered bloated and intrusive by many "gurus", they prefer window managers that are infinitely more tweakable than the average desktop environment.
I feel like there could be a show on Animal Planet, "Stalking the Elusive Linux Guru". They are solitary creatures and their habits hard to discern.

How do we explain that Linus Torvalds, who is I think unarguably someone who deserves the designation of "guru", uses GNOME currently, and prior to the 4.0 debacle, was a vocal proponent of KDE?

You can be an highly skilled linux user and prefer GNOME or KDE. You can be a relative novice, like myself, and prefer openbox. As said before, use the best tool for the job, and use the tools that work for you. I like quick, light, stable software, that at least makes a nod towards the Unix philosophy, but I don't begrudge anyone for liking frills and fancy effects. (Even if I do call it bloat on occasion )
 
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Old 03-03-2010, 08:36 PM   #14
Kenny_Strawn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bendib View Post
The following is a bit of a rant. Please excuse the shouting.

I saw GNOME 3 on YouTube, and it really pissed me off. It looks like they are going to FORCE Compiz on you! Do you like Compiz? I don't. Is your machine even POWERFUL enough for Compiz? Some of mine ain't! And sure, they say they will let you use the panel, FOR A WHILE! Why oh WHY does GNOME assume all users use their mouse as a footpedal??? Well, I got NEWS FOR YOU, GNOME!!! Most of your users are GURUS!!! I might not hate that new UI for GNOME 3 so much if it at least didn't require compiz, which is feasible. I would have switched to KDE4 if it didn't have 100,000,000 bugs! Now, I happen to like the Nautilus file browser and I do love the panels. GNOME is my default UI, but all my systems are Compiz free, so GNOME, if you are listening, listen close. Most of your users are gurus. We do not like being treated like cavemen. GNOME shell would be perfectly dandy if it was a SECONDARY interface, but I do not want or need compiz, Hmkay? Oh, and GNOME shell would be great for netbooks, but not your manly desktop that sounds like a lawn mower, so please don't make Shell the default!
Okay, first: Mutter and Compiz are not the same thing. Mutter is a port of Metacity to the Clutter toolkit, and GNOME Shell is based on Mutter, not Compiz, which is an entirely different window manager. GS does not use Compiz. It uses the rival Mutter.

Secondly, just looking at GNOME Shell does not give you the real picture of GNOME 3. GNOME 3 is supposed to include other things besides GNOME Shell that could potentially be game-changing, such as the Activity Journal and other things similar to it, which are more comparable to Apple's Time Machine than anything else.

Third, GNOME's user base actually is mostly Ubuntu users, which are *NOT* computer gurus, and actually more are social networkers, e-mailers, Web surfers, and Tweeters than hackers or geeks. Fedora users may be mostly geeks, as are Debian users, Mandriva users, and others. But not Ubuntu users.

Forth, face it: If you want to truly get the most out of your desktop, GNOME is a very good way to go. It is the most customizable of the Linux DE's. In KDE, you'll find yourself with a desktop background that cannot be changed without hacking, a theme that's hard to alter, and color schemes that stay put.

If you want to see what I mean, here's a highly customized Ubuntu desktop, even with the default theme still in place. The only difference? Yellow window borders, yellow panels, and RGBA, things that are hard to change with both KDE and XFCE.

Attachment 2892

Last edited by Kenny_Strawn; 03-06-2010 at 10:39 PM.
 
Old 03-04-2010, 06:03 AM   #15
aus9
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to others...sorry for going off theme from OP

elliott678

Do you have any links or evidence from any known guru that LXDE is regarded as bloated and intrusive please?

Me thinks you have not tried it.....I shall whip myself eternally if you name yourself as the guru...heh heh
 
  


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