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Old 11-04-2012, 09:11 AM   #1
raviraj_1993
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RHCA or CCIE


Hi,i am completing my diploma(final year)in CSE and i have completed My training of RHCE..i am too much interested in LINUX & NETWORKING.. so which certification should i do RHCA or CCIE ??
 
Old 11-05-2012, 03:53 AM   #2
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They are WORLDS apart. RHCA is largely a formality if you buy a few books, CCIE is MUCH harder. Really I would never expect one person to do both of these, and would relate MUCH more to the actual career you want. I think it's pretty sad how so many people just want certs, although I do hear it's pretty endemic in the subcontinent and you tend to have to go along with it. But pick certs based on your preferred career path. You should really see no significant level of cross over in work you'd do with these, as you should be highly specialized once you get there.
 
Old 11-07-2012, 10:46 AM   #3
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hmmmm surely there would be a lot more RHCA's in the world if all you had to do was buy a few books!!!!

While that may work for the RHCSA I doubt many people could get through 5 lab based exams with just some books and no real world experience in security, ldap, virtualisation, clustering, satellite etc
 
Old 11-07-2012, 01:14 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by henrycoffin View Post
hmmmm surely there would be a lot more RHCA's in the world if all you had to do was buy a few books!!!!

While that may work for the RHCSA I doubt many people could get through 5 lab based exams with just some books and no real world experience in security, ldap, virtualisation, clustering, satellite etc
Don't doubt it....I've encountered LOTS of them. Some 'certified' folks didn't know how to add new users to a system, or how to mirror hard drives.

raviraj_1993, do NOT just go get certifications for the sake of having them. They are MEANINGLESS unless you have the real-world knowledge behind them. Just taking tests and reading exam guides may get you a passing grade and a 'certification', but it will be VERY obvious VERY quickly, that you lack real world experience. LEARN the subject first....load things, configure services, learn how to troubleshoot problems correctly. THEN go get a certificate if you must, but don't just join the (many) folks who are 'certified', and don't know what they're really doing...please.
 
Old 11-19-2012, 01:05 AM   #5
llmi187
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raviraj_1993 View Post
Hi,i am completing my diploma(final year)in CSE and i have completed My training of RHCE..i am too much interested in LINUX & NETWORKING.. so which certification should i do RHCA or CCIE ??
Hello!man

Cisco exam are very expensive than rhca ,juniper(jncie) are not expensive than cisco.Some people are complain on cisco device because they are very expensive.If you want to sit in ccie ,ccie data center are most relative with rhca because they have include many topic and relative their installation and configure.
 
Old 12-07-2012, 07:20 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by TB0ne View Post
Don't doubt it....I've encountered LOTS of them. Some 'certified' folks didn't know how to add new users to a system, or how to mirror hard drives.

raviraj_1993, do NOT just go get certifications for the sake of having them. They are MEANINGLESS unless you have the real-world knowledge behind them. Just taking tests and reading exam guides may get you a passing grade and a 'certification', but it will be VERY obvious VERY quickly, that you lack real world experience. LEARN the subject first....load things, configure services, learn how to troubleshoot problems correctly. THEN go get a certificate if you must, but don't just join the (many) folks who are 'certified', and don't know what they're really doing...please.

It doesn't sound like you know too much about red hat exams. You can't get through that certification with just books because it's not a question and answer test. None of the red hat certifications are. When you sit down to take the test, you will be required to perform tasks on an actual linux box which includes things like adding users on some of the lower level certs. The higher level certs like RHCE requires doing things like setting up mail and dns servers so I doubt there's an RHCA who can't add a user unless he got hit on the head and lost his memory. I do agree that there are a lot of certified individuals who can't perform basic tasks but you don't see them walking around with certs like the RHCA or an CCIE because intelligent people who actually know what they're doing still struggle to get those certs and often fail.
 
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Old 12-07-2012, 08:43 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wstewart View Post
It doesn't sound like you know too much about red hat exams. You can't get through that certification with just books because it's not a question and answer test. None of the red hat certifications are. When you sit down to take the test, you will be required to perform tasks on an actual linux box which includes things like adding users on some of the lower level certs. The higher level certs like RHCE requires doing things like setting up mail and dns servers so I doubt there's an RHCA who can't add a user unless he got hit on the head and lost his memory. I do agree that there are a lot of certified individuals who can't perform basic tasks but you don't see them walking around with certs like the RHCA or an CCIE because intelligent people who actually know what they're doing still struggle to get those certs and often fail.
And it doesn't sound like you have met some if the 'certified ' folks in the real world. Yes, I know how the tests work...have you read those practice tests, or guides? Sorry, but there are MANY RHEA holders who have a paper certificate and not much else.

I've seen them for a long time, thanks. The typical pattern is: read books and take practice exams until you can barely squeak by, then takes test. Loading CentOS let's you practice the commands you memorized. You're mistaking the goals of some folks. They don't want the knowledge or the 100% grade...they want the paper certificate.

Last edited by TB0ne; 12-07-2012 at 10:14 AM.
 
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Old 12-07-2012, 09:47 AM   #8
wstewart
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TB0ne View Post
And it doesn't sound like you have met some if the 'certified ' folks in the real world. Yes, I know how the tests work...have you read those practice tests, or guides? Sorry, but there are MANY RHEA holders who have a paper certificate and not much else.

I've seen them for a long time, thanks.
I find it pretty hard to believe that you know any RHCAs who can't do basic linux tasks since the exams themseves actually involve doing complex linux tasks. You can't just cross your fingers and hope you get the right answer and chances are if they spent thousands of dollars on the many exams you have to take to get an RHCA they're probably working with Red Hat on a daily basis and can retain at least basic information. You might have seen some paper certs but I don't believe you know an RHCA who can't create a user account unless they lied to you about having the cert in the first place.

Last edited by wstewart; 12-07-2012 at 09:50 AM.
 
Old 12-07-2012, 09:49 AM   #9
wstewart
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TB0ne View Post
And it doesn't sound like you have met some if the 'certified ' folks in the real world. Yes, I know how the tests work...have you read those practice tests, or guides? Sorry, but there are MANY RHEA holders who have a paper certificate and not much else.

I've seen them for a long time, thanks.
FYI I work in the real world. Paper cert guys don't last too long out here and anybody who managed to make it all the way to RHCA probably has to know there stuff.
 
Old 12-07-2012, 10:20 AM   #10
wstewart
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http://www.redhat.com/training/cours.../examobjective

Take a look at the RHCSA objectives. You have to actually do all of those tasks on a live system just to pass that one exam and your paying $400 just to take it.

http://www.redhat.com/training/cours.../examobjective

Then take a look at the objectives for RHCE because it only gets harder. You're not going to braindump or cram for something like that. You're going to have to lab and actually get some experience using linux whether in a business or personal environment.

Both of those exams are $400 a piece and are a prerequisite to the RHCA. If you paid that $800 dollars and however much you may have spent on the training for the exam, I don't think you're going to cough up at least another $3745 for the 5 exams($749 each) you need to get an RHCA if you haven't already landed a linux admin job to get some kind of ROI. And if you've got a linux admin job based on those certs then I don't think you're going to be able to keep that job for too long without actually knowing what you're doing unless your boss is just paying you to look pretty. On top of that, each one of those exams are just plain hard and require you to actually know how to do each one of those tasks. Not just memorize a few commands or guess some answers. The more advanced exams are also not to generous with time so if you don't know what you're doing then you will fail. You're essentially saying you know MANY("your own words") people who don't know how to do something that they had to prove that they could do to get what they have and that's a pretty bold statement. I could understand if you claimed you knew RHCAs who have no hardware knowledge.

Last edited by wstewart; 12-07-2012 at 10:37 AM.
 
Old 12-07-2012, 05:46 PM   #11
TB0ne
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wstewart View Post
I find it pretty hard to believe that you know any RHCAs who can't do basic linux tasks since the exams themseves actually involve doing complex linux tasks. You can't just cross your fingers and hope you get the right answer and chances are if they spent thousands of dollars on the many exams you have to take to get an RHCA they're probably working with Red Hat on a daily basis and can retain at least basic information. You might have seen some paper certs but I don't believe you know an RHCA who can't create a user account unless they lied to you about having the cert in the first place.
I have no idea why you have decided to (essentially), just call me a liar, nor why you persist, especially with multiple posts like this. What's the problem?? And honestly, I don't care what you believe. Most of them have been with some 'quality' outsourcing companies that have tried to get to work with us, and several others have come for interviews.

Again, you seem to be missing several key points, and I have no idea why you seem bound and determined to call me a liar, and doubt what I'm saying, especially since:
  1. You've not been there
  2. You're not paying attention to what's been said here.
I'll again say this, since you've missed it a few times now: some people don't care about the knowledge, they just want the certificate. Do some research...there are many sites you can find online that have practice exams, and torrents with questions/answers. Wrong and against the RHEL NDA agreement? Absolutely. Are they available for anyone who wants them? Sure are. Again, some folks just don't care....they get a 'certification', and get a job. The companies they work for don't care, since they then try to sell their services with a "Hey, look at US...ALL of our 'specialists' have certifications!!" spiel.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wstewart
FYI I work in the real world. Paper cert guys don't last too long out here and anybody who managed to make it all the way to RHCA probably has to know there stuff.
Nope, sorry, they don't. Yes, they are easy to spot and don't last long, but then that's not the POINT of this thread, is it? They SHOULD know what they're doing, but again, I've met several who don't.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wstewart
Take a look at the RHCSA objectives. You have to actually do all of those tasks on a live system just to pass that one exam and your paying $400 just to take it. Then take a look at the objectives for RHCE because it only gets harder. You're not going to braindump or cram for something like that. You're going to have to lab and actually get some experience using linux whether in a business or personal environment.

Both of those exams are $400 a piece and are a prerequisite to the RHCA. If you paid that $800 dollars and however much you may have spent on the training for the exam, I don't think you're going to cough up at least another $3745 for the 5 exams($749 each) you need to get an RHCA if you haven't already landed a linux admin job to get some kind of ROI. And if you've got a linux admin job based on those certs then I don't think you're going to be able to keep that job for too long without actually knowing what you're doing unless your boss is just paying you to look pretty. On top of that, each one of those exams are just plain hard and require you to actually know how to do each one of those tasks. Not just memorize a few commands or guess some answers. The more advanced exams are also not to generous with time so if you don't know what you're doing then you will fail. You're essentially saying you know MANY("your own words") people who don't know how to do something that they had to prove that they could do to get what they have and that's a pretty bold statement. I could understand if you claimed you knew RHCAs who have no hardware knowledge.
I know what my own words were...and again, I don't care if you believe it or not. To me, more than 7 (which I can remember off the top of my head), constitutes 'many'. Again, I don't know what the problem is..I have said nothing against you personally, yet you have taken a rather harsh tone here, and essentially called me a liar for no good reason.

Take a look through the threads here, there are lots more folks than me who have met folks with dubious certifications. Also look through threads here where folks ask for the answers point-blank. Here, they don't get provided...other sites? Not so much of an issue. And I know what the objectives are, and what they SHOULD mean. They don't. And don't forget that many companies will reimburse you for the exam costs, so it's ZERO out of pocket for someone who just uses rote memorization and answer dumps. I've been an administrator for over 25 years now....have run my own company for the past decade. If you haven't met these jokers yet, you will.

Last edited by TB0ne; 12-13-2012 at 01:43 PM.
 
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Old 12-07-2012, 06:08 PM   #12
markush
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I doubt that one can learn enough (Linux or administration in general) while learning for a certificate. These certificates say nothing about the administrator.

If they (Redhat) want their certificates to be meaningful, they need as a requirement that one must have at least 5 years of experience on the job _before_ taking the exam.

At least in networking, which is independent from the OS, you're nothing without experience. And networking _is_ the bigger part of the adminjob.

Markus
 
Old 12-07-2012, 06:26 PM   #13
wstewart
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TB0ne View Post
I have no idea why you have decided to (essentially), just call me a liar, nor why you persist, especially with multiple posts like this. What's the problem?? And honestly, I don't care what you believe. Most of them have been with some 'quality' outsourcing companies that have tried to get to work with us, and several others have come for interviews.

Again, you seem to be missing several key points, and I have no idea why you seem bound and determined to call me a liar, and doubt what I'm saying, especially since:
  1. You've not been there
  2. You're not paying attention to what's been said here.
I'll again say this, since you've missed it a few times now: some people don't care about the knowledge, they just want the certificate. Do some research...there are many sites you can find online that have practice exams, and torrents with questions/answers. Wrong and against the RHEL NDA agreement? Absolutely. Are they available for anyone who wants them? Sure are. Again, some folks just don't care....they get a 'certification', and get a job. The companies they work for don't care, since they then try to sell their services with a "Hey, look at US...ALL of our 'specialists' have certifications!!" spiel.

Nope, sorry, they don't. Yes, they are easy to spot and don't last long, but then that's not the POINT of this thread, is it? They SHOULD know what they're doing, but again, I've met several who don't.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wstewart
Take a look at the RHCSA objectives. You have to actually do all of those tasks on a live system just to pass that one exam and your paying $400 just to take it. Then take a look at the objectives for RHCE because it only gets harder. You're not going to braindump or cram for something like that. You're going to have to lab and actually get some experience using linux whether in a business or personal environment.

Both of those exams are $400 a piece and are a prerequisite to the RHCA. If you paid that $800 dollars and however much you may have spent on the training for the exam, I don't think you're going to cough up at least another $3745 for the 5 exams($749 each) you need to get an RHCA if you haven't already landed a linux admin job to get some kind of ROI. And if you've got a linux admin job based on those certs then I don't think you're going to be able to keep that job for too long without actually knowing what you're doing unless your boss is just paying you to look pretty. On top of that, each one of those exams are just plain hard and require you to actually know how to do each one of those tasks. Not just memorize a few commands or guess some answers. The more advanced exams are also not to generous with time so if you don't know what you're doing then you will fail. You're essentially saying you know MANY("your own words") people who don't know how to do something that they had to prove that they could do to get what they have and that's a pretty bold statement. I could understand if you claimed you knew RHCAs who have no hardware knowledge.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TB0ne
I know what my own words were...and again, I don't care if you believe it or not. To me, more than 7 (which I can remember off the top of my head), constitutes 'many'. Again, I don't know what the problem is..I have said nothing against you personally, yet you have taken a rather harsh tone here, and essentially called me a liar for no good reason.

Take a look through the threads here, there are lots more folks than me who have met folks with dubious certifications. Also look through threads here where folks ask for the answers point-blank. Here, they don't get provided...other sites? Not so much of an issue. And I know what the objectives are, and what they SHOULD mean. They don't. And don't forget that many companies will reimburse you for the exam costs, so it's ZERO out of pocket for someone who just uses rote memorization and answer dumps. I've been an administrator for over 25 years now....have run my own company for the past decade. If you haven't met these jokers yet, you will.

Torrent with question and answers? Obviously your still not listening. There are no questions and answers on the RHCA exams. You are required to do the actual tasks to pass the exams and anybody who can't do the actual tasks asked of them without the ability to look anything up online or ask questions is going to fail period. You're not going to find a torrent to help you get an RHCA. There are 75,000 certified Red Hat professionals in the world, 40,000 RHCEs as of 2009 and a smaller percentage of them have an RHCA. Thats like saying you know a CCIE who can't shut down an interface. Chances are if they made it to RHCA level they've spent a lot of time on an actual linux system preparing for the exam because as I said before it's not a question and answer test.
So no you can't just find a torrent with the questions and answers and yes I'm calling you a liar if you claim you know MANY RHCAs who can't do soemthing as simple as "useradd <username>". Red Hat doesn't require the experience, they only recommend it. They'd be more than happy to take the money of some fool who thinks he really can just find a torrent with questions and answer to pass the test.

Last edited by wstewart; 12-08-2012 at 03:53 AM.
 
Old 12-08-2012, 03:52 AM   #14
wstewart
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Originally Posted by markush View Post
I doubt that one can learn enough (Linux or administration in general) while learning for a certificate. These certificates say nothing about the administrator.

If they (Redhat) want their certificates to be meaningful, they need as a requirement that one must have at least 5 years of experience on the job _before_ taking the exam.

At least in networking, which is independent from the OS, you're nothing without experience. And networking _is_ the bigger part of the adminjob.

Markus

The CCIE doesn't require any experience. In fact, it doesn't even require a CCNA. It's just one of those certifications that you don't get without knowing what you're doing just like the RHCA. And the only well know cert that I can think of that actually requires any experience is CISSP and that's a security cert, not networking. People have met the experience requirements for that cert by working as security guards. Most vendors won't hesitate to take your money if your foolish enough to take the exam without proper preparation. Their certs gain their credibility by how difficult it is to obtain the cert. I don't know how big Red Hat is over in germany but it is a very respected cert over here because it is a performance based cert and not a simple question and answer cert. Nobody is suggesting that a certification will teach you enough to be an administrator but this certification is geared towards people who already are administrators. To suggest that you could pass these exams without knowing anything about linux is to suggest that anybody off of the street could just walk into a company and start doing linux administration tasks because administration tasks are exactly what you have to do on all 7 of the exams to get that cert. Show me a guy who says he has that cert and can't create a simple user account and I'll show you a liar. Why? Because he had to create user accounts many times in many different scenarios to get the cert.

Last edited by wstewart; 12-08-2012 at 04:00 AM.
 
Old 12-08-2012, 04:03 AM   #15
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Quote:
... To suggest that you could pass these exams without knowing anything about linux is to suggest that anybody off of the street could just walk into a company and start doing linux administration tasks because administration tasks are exactly what you have to do on all 7 of the exams to get that cert...
But when you explain "how to add a user" to the boy from the street, he will be able to do it within two minutes. But if the guy with the certificat experiences "strange network problems", he needs experience for the troubleshooting. The difference is that these tasks which one has to do when he wants to require a certificate can be done with reading the manpages (and excercises).

As for Germany, you're right, Redhat is not as common as Debian or Suse for Servers, often they use Ubuntu, I work primarily in Windows-networks.

Markus
 
  


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