LinuxQuestions.org
Welcome to the most active Linux Forum on the web.
Go Back   LinuxQuestions.org > Forums > Linux Forums > Linux - General > Linux - Certification
User Name
Password
Linux - Certification This forum is for the discussion of all topics relating to Linux certification.

Notices


Reply
  Search this Thread
Old 07-23-2014, 03:09 PM   #16
sundialsvcs
LQ Guru
 
Registered: Feb 2004
Location: SE Tennessee, USA
Distribution: Gentoo, LFS
Posts: 9,078
Blog Entries: 4

Rep: Reputation: 3177Reputation: 3177Reputation: 3177Reputation: 3177Reputation: 3177Reputation: 3177Reputation: 3177Reputation: 3177Reputation: 3177Reputation: 3177Reputation: 3177

"What I would have you do" is ... get a job that is either in the field you want to hit, or nearby.

The first job I had consisted of walking into the computer center, tearing printouts off the line-printer, and shoving them through the correct slot. (This ought to give you a clue as to the year decade.) Nevertheless, I was always present on time, always did what I was asked, and politely asked to borrow the manuals for the computer software, all of which I read.

I worked in that computer center for the next seven years, and eventually was the sysadmin to all of the computers that ran the whole damm college. I was trusted with everything, because I had shown myself to be trustworthy.

Remember: "He who is faithful with little, will be faithful with much."

Right now, my friend, you are a sitting duck for a high-pressure sales pitch that won't give you what you want. You want something – a piece of paper - to affirm to you what you fear is not true. But, in this ol' world, very few sources of "affirmation" are worth a damm thing. Certainly not those that you pay for. Therefore, keep your money in your pocket and go get ... an "entry level" job. That's how you "enter." Don't stand there not-doing it because you're afraid that you cant-do it. After all, what's the very worst that could happen? I'll tell you: "No, thanks."

Salesmen don't die when the customer declines to buy from them. Neither will you. And, you just might be pleasantly surprised, instead.

It won't be: "No, thanks, because you don't have a Golden Ticket. If you had a Golden Ticket, why, I'd hire you on the spot!!" Nope. That only happens in Willy Wonka movies.

Last edited by sundialsvcs; 07-23-2014 at 03:15 PM.
 
1 members found this post helpful.
Old 07-23-2014, 05:02 PM   #17
sigint-ninja
Member
 
Registered: Feb 2011
Location: Republic Of Ireland
Distribution: Debian,Centos,Slackware
Posts: 508

Original Poster
Rep: Reputation: 29
Tbone i wouldnt have even qualified for the interview had i not acquired my A+...i would think it would be the same as trying to apply for a job as a law intern but you been working in mcdonnalds the last four years...aint gonna happen...T3RM1NVT0R i understand what you are saying and i kind of figured that...its my own path im concerned about...i wish LQ had a proper linux course that you could take that shared real world experience with a real hands on approach...i would pay to see that.
 
Old 07-23-2014, 11:17 PM   #18
sundialsvcs
LQ Guru
 
Registered: Feb 2004
Location: SE Tennessee, USA
Distribution: Gentoo, LFS
Posts: 9,078
Blog Entries: 4

Rep: Reputation: 3177Reputation: 3177Reputation: 3177Reputation: 3177Reputation: 3177Reputation: 3177Reputation: 3177Reputation: 3177Reputation: 3177Reputation: 3177Reputation: 3177
Baloney. Just, baloney.

You don't "qualify for an interview" by holding a multi-thousand dollar piece of paper in your hands. You shoot for an entry-level job at a company, and, in that job, you learn on the job by carefully watching what the people around you are doing.

You see, computers don't exist in a vacuum. They're sucking-up electric power in order to do work for the companies who bought or leased them. There's an entire business workflow passing through them, and there are a group of people who are responsible for seeing to it that this continues to occur. This workflow is a million times more valuable to the company than the computers which are doing the work. Specifically, what is "a million times more valuable" is that "the computers always continue to do this work, precisely and dependably," and "the individuals who are responsible for this know both their business and our business, and can be implicitly trusted."

Yes, you start by tearing pages off a line printer and shoving them through a little slot, so as to become "the devil they know."

Right now, the work-world is stuffed with "fly-by-night flibbergibbits" who will freely bounce from one position to another, so self-assured are they in their own Magnificent Abilities. Everything in their background seems to tell them that they must be The Smartest Kid In School, and that they are. But the odds are pretty good that people like that simply won't show up for work one day because they got a better-to-them offer.

And here's a bit of Salesman's Wisdom from someone who hires:
Quote:
When you walk into the client's office, remember that you're also walking into "a history of bad-tastes." No matter who that person is, s/he's been badly burned before, by someone who you'll never know, but who vaguely looks like you or who also did something that you just did. Instantly, you become that person, and the sales opportunity is "over." If you don't know to anticipate this, you'll never guess what went wrong.
I'll tell you that if you walk into my office, brandishing "a certification and very little experience," your dancing days are already done. I've never done it, but I've shared snacks and drinks with many a colleague who has, and that's why I've never done it. But, humility will go a very long way with me, because humility is so damned rare.

After you've been on the job for a little while, a wise employer will invest time and money in professional education ... which might well include a certification, paid-for at his expense. (You'll usually be required to sign something that says that, if you skip-town, you'll have to pay all or part of the cost of the course.) This is the real scenario where certifications can be valuable: the value is in the training, and the certificate is the icing on the cake.

Also: buy and read The Little Red Book on Selling. It's little, it's red, and it's cheap because the author has sold so many millions of copies of it by now. When you apply for a job, you are selling, and you're selling against lots of people who don't know they're selling and who don't have a ghost of an idea how to do it. When you apply for a job, you are your 'Fuller Brush.'

Last edited by sundialsvcs; 07-24-2014 at 07:33 AM.
 
Old 07-24-2014, 08:46 AM   #19
TB0ne
LQ Guru
 
Registered: Jul 2003
Location: Birmingham, Alabama
Distribution: SuSE, RedHat, Slack,CentOS
Posts: 21,962

Rep: Reputation: 5827Reputation: 5827Reputation: 5827Reputation: 5827Reputation: 5827Reputation: 5827Reputation: 5827Reputation: 5827Reputation: 5827Reputation: 5827Reputation: 5827
Quote:
Originally Posted by sigint-ninja View Post
Tbone i wouldnt have even qualified for the interview had i not acquired my A+...
Sorry, absolutely wrong. You QUALIFIED for the interview, because you had EXPERIENCE....NOT a 'certification'. You passed the interview, because you knew the answers to the questions you were asked, and they felt you'd be a good fit for the environment, period. Your A+ had next to NOTHING to do with it.
Quote:
i would think it would be the same as trying to apply for a job as a law intern but you been working in mcdonnalds the last four years...aint gonna happen..
Sorry...wrong again. If someone went to a law firm to get a job as an intern, and they had experience and knowledge about things, they'd be interviewed, no matter who your last employer was. If this person had been going to law school, was studying, and had knowledge of what's going on, that's what they look at. Did you not read sundialsvcs's story? He started by putting pieces of paper into a slot, and moved up...exactly what 'certifications' did he have to get that first job?
Quote:
.T3RM1NVT0R i understand what you are saying and i kind of figured that...its my own path im concerned about...i wish LQ had a proper linux course that you could take that shared real world experience with a real hands on approach...i would pay to see that.
You'd pay to see it?? Good, then send me your money...because you ALREADY HAVE IT...it's call "Linux". Download it, install it, and USE IT..there is your 'real world' experience, with a real 'hands on' approach. Don't know why you're laboring under the delusion that a 'certification' gives you something special. If you can configure sendmail/postfix on a system at your house, it's not a whole lot different in the 'real world'...and whatever differences there are, you will know how to troubleshoot them, because you will KNOW the basics and where to look. Same for any other service....virtual hosts on apache? Clustering? High availability? Logical volumes? What can't you do at home???

Learn on your own...a certification should mean you have the knowledge, not a piece of paper that says you know enough to pass a test. And you do realize that in this very thread there are THREE hiring-managers who are point-blank TELLING YOU that the certifications aren't worth a whole lot in the real world, and you're continuing to say you don't believe us...why ask for the opinion if you're going to tell everyone else you're right?
 
Old 07-24-2014, 02:18 PM   #20
T3RM1NVT0R
Senior Member
 
Registered: Dec 2010
Location: Internet
Distribution: Linux Mint, SLES, CentOS, Red Hat
Posts: 2,385

Rep: Reputation: 477Reputation: 477Reputation: 477Reputation: 477Reputation: 477
@sigint-ninja

@ sigint-ninja

To answer your orginal question RHEL 6 will not be a waste of time it is just that RHEL 7 is already in market. Red Hat certifications by default expires in 3 years (I have already given example in my previous posts). So RHEL6 will remain current until next three years unless you do another certification from Red Hat which will extend your certification expiry period to 3 years from the day you did it.

As I suggested email might not work you should better meet them in person. Search for Red Hat partners or look for Red Hat office in your local area if you want to go for training. Training is not compulsory for any Red Hat exams but if you are not taking training you might not get some of the offers which they have for people who have undergone training. Again training is something which is quite expensive, so I would suggest that you better go with self study according to exam objectives. It is always good that you don't just stick to exam objectives rather you explore more and more of the technology as a whole. Let me put it this way if you know the technology (not just the exam objectives) whatever the issue comes in real world scenario you will be able to fix it.

At the same time I agree with sundialsvcs and TBone. We are here trying to make you understand that in real world scenario if we have resume in front of us we don't just look at the certification. Infact the first thing which I personally look at is key skills sections. As they correctly said that certification is not something which gets you shortlisted it is your skills that gets you shortlisted.

In today's market no one is using single technology it is a combination of different technolgies. You can't expect SAN, Backup solution, Network, platform etc all to be from the same vendor in an organization. So what's next keep doing certification of different technologies from all vendor? No, this is not at all a correct approach. I would say be master of one but jack of other technolgies as well. This will help you grow better in integrated infrastructure environment.

As you said that you are interested in Red Hat, fair enough, go for it but make sure you don't just learn it for job sake rather learn it to explore more of it. If you learn Red Hat companies or hiring firm may expect that you have knowledge on other distribution which are rpm based. Make them feel that what they think is right. Explore some of SuSE, OEL etc. which are other rpm based distribution.

I hope this helps.

All the best and Enjoy Linux!!!
 
Old 07-24-2014, 04:57 PM   #21
sigint-ninja
Member
 
Registered: Feb 2011
Location: Republic Of Ireland
Distribution: Debian,Centos,Slackware
Posts: 508

Original Poster
Rep: Reputation: 29
To all who posted, i take advice seriously and have an open mind. Thanks guys for all that, it was very helpful.I do understand what you were trying to convince me of. So i have decided to put certification ideas on the shelf and begin building a solid foundation of real world learning experience.

I have two computers running slackware and i have access to an office with a serious fiber connection.
in the fiber room i have a hp mini tower running centos which im now planning to setup as a server...
i know you guys are prob sick and tired of this thread, but i just need a last bit of input ...please

here are the skills i will learn and master: (obviously there are more you guys could suggest)

setup the server:
as an ftp server
as a samba server
as a mail server
connect via ssh [which i have accomplished] learn other remote admin tools (vnc etc)
become very good with the command line
Good with text editor (vim)
learn to use security tools like iptables, tripwire etc
learn scripting (bash and python [i have already started getting into python])
a management system like puppet or chef

im sure you guys can think of a lot more. Do you think that list will get me in on the ground floor if i manage to really learn these skills, im guessing it will take about 3 to 4 years to become good in these areas...of course it varies from person to person i realise that...

as always im eagerly awaiting your input...thanks
 
Old 07-24-2014, 05:19 PM   #22
T3RM1NVT0R
Senior Member
 
Registered: Dec 2010
Location: Internet
Distribution: Linux Mint, SLES, CentOS, Red Hat
Posts: 2,385

Rep: Reputation: 477Reputation: 477Reputation: 477Reputation: 477Reputation: 477
@ sigint-ninja

You're welcome and this is the approach we were talking about. Good to hear that you now have a clear picture. Welcome to LQ!!! :-)

The points that you have outlined are pretty good. I would suggest including awk, sed, apache and mysql as well in the topics. These topics will be good to start with. Once you will get the feel for linux then you can move on to advanced topics like clustering, virtualization etc.

Anytime you have doubt just start a new thread @ LQ and community will try to help you best possible way.

Once again all the best and Enjoy Linux ;-)!!!!

Last edited by T3RM1NVT0R; 07-24-2014 at 05:20 PM.
 
Old 07-24-2014, 06:05 PM   #23
sigint-ninja
Member
 
Registered: Feb 2011
Location: Republic Of Ireland
Distribution: Debian,Centos,Slackware
Posts: 508

Original Poster
Rep: Reputation: 29
great to hear it and thanks...oh yes forgot about sql etc,is mysql mostly used over postgre?...is there any particular order i should commence with...or can i just go with the flow? i have read the linux+ book about three times now and have learned a lot of the basics...but have not been doing a lot of hands on stuff...now im going to get started...thanks again
 
Old 07-24-2014, 06:19 PM   #24
TB0ne
LQ Guru
 
Registered: Jul 2003
Location: Birmingham, Alabama
Distribution: SuSE, RedHat, Slack,CentOS
Posts: 21,962

Rep: Reputation: 5827Reputation: 5827Reputation: 5827Reputation: 5827Reputation: 5827Reputation: 5827Reputation: 5827Reputation: 5827Reputation: 5827Reputation: 5827Reputation: 5827
Quote:
Originally Posted by sigint-ninja View Post
To all who posted, i take advice seriously and have an open mind. Thanks guys for all that, it was very helpful.I do understand what you were trying to convince me of. So i have decided to put certification ideas on the shelf and begin building a solid foundation of real world learning experience.

I have two computers running slackware and i have access to an office with a serious fiber connection. in the fiber room i have a hp mini tower running centos which im now planning to setup as a server... i know you guys are prob sick and tired of this thread, but i just need a last bit of input ...please
here are the skills i will learn and master: (obviously there are more you guys could suggest)

setup the server:
as an ftp server
as a samba server
as a mail server
connect via ssh [which i have accomplished] learn other remote admin tools (vnc etc)
become very good with the command line
Good with text editor (vim)
learn to use security tools like iptables, tripwire etc
learn scripting (bash and python [i have already started getting into python])
a management system like puppet or chef

im sure you guys can think of a lot more. Do you think that list will get me in on the ground floor if i manage to really learn these skills, im guessing it will take about 3 to 4 years to become good in these areas...of course it varies from person to person i realise that...
3 or 4 YEARS???? That's a very, VERY long time, especially when you have a HUGE abundance of how-to documents, documentation, and access to online repositories. Even doing something VERY complicated (like Samba with Kerberos to Active-Directory?), should take you no more than a week at the MOST to set up. And you don't have to memorize each and every step..in the real world, you can do research, and will have access to online documentation, Google, tech-support, etc.

As you've been told before: know the basics; learn how to troubleshoot. That is the BIGGEST thing you can do...once you know where to look for errors, you can then RESEARCH the error, and solve it. If you don't know how to think about a problem and 'walk the chain', you won't get anywhere, no matter how many 'certifications' you have. Yes, the skills above will get you an entry-level job....from there, it's up to you, but do NOT think that getting a 'certification' will somehow get you somewhere. It won't.

If you get that entry-level job, you need to:
  • Work hard
  • LEARN what you don't know, by asking questions.
  • Show initiative, but work as part of the team. This means volunteering to do jobs for some of the more senior folks.
These things need to be done every day, period. Once your teammates know they can trust you, they'll be much more willing to teach you even more. Volunteering to do some of the more mundane tasks for the admins, and not overstepping your bounds? That'll be a huge plus...they'll talk you up to the boss, and the next time promotions roll around, or there's an opening, who do you think they'll call? You, or the guy who applied with the 'certifications'??

You have the tools you need already...there is no magic. Learn, work, and prosper, or spend tons of money and time on a piece of paper that's worthless in a couple of years. Your choice.
 
Old 07-24-2014, 06:32 PM   #25
sigint-ninja
Member
 
Registered: Feb 2011
Location: Republic Of Ireland
Distribution: Debian,Centos,Slackware
Posts: 508

Original Poster
Rep: Reputation: 29
Thanks TB0ne for those words of encouragement!!! really good community here...cant wait to get started...and thanks again!!! speak soon...SN
 
  


Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Need RH124 and RH135 book, please anybody know where i can download the book for free aderinto Linux - Newbie 5 07-31-2012 08:42 PM
RH124 (Or System Administration I) Book, Ebook, or study guide ? cletus8 Linux - Certification 3 10-22-2011 08:25 AM
best book for learning redhat 9.0 chinmay nautiya Linux - Software 2 07-01-2003 12:41 PM
I Need a RedHat 8.0 Book (W/cds) Shinobi Linux - General 4 04-01-2003 09:36 AM

LinuxQuestions.org > Forums > Linux Forums > Linux - General > Linux - Certification

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:31 PM.

Main Menu
Advertisement
My LQ
Write for LQ
LinuxQuestions.org is looking for people interested in writing Editorials, Articles, Reviews, and more. If you'd like to contribute content, let us know.
Main Menu
Syndicate
RSS1  Latest Threads
RSS1  LQ News
Twitter: @linuxquestions
Facebook: linuxquestions Google+: linuxquestions
Open Source Consulting | Domain Registration