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Old 02-26-2018, 12:37 PM   #46
link08
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pan64
This is quite simple, most of these commands are just abbreviations of English words
Thanks for opening my eyes on the source of these commands. I think I know them now. But let's say it's some other data like number of DHCP options or port numbers - all info that can be easily be googled. Is it wise to spent time to cram it?
Quote:
Originally Posted by pan64
It is really very far from professionalism and/or perfectionism
Why trying to optimize study time is far from perfectionism? Considering how many technologies should a system administrator know. (saying it for 7 time may be)
Quote:
Originally Posted by pan64
Since you started this post you could learn all of it - and even more, but you will not get any kind of certificate for that.
I started the post to know is certification really necessary and vi was only the example of thing that I must cram. Why do you think I want certification for learning basic vi commands?
 
Old 02-26-2018, 12:43 PM   #47
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Basically for me it's only obvious that there is not definite decision on this thing. In this, as well as other threads that I opened, half of the people was against certification and half not against it. My decision would be to stick with certification and if I need to cram something like DHCP options - I will spend my time to do that. If I need to reread sentence 5 times before I understand it - I will do it. May be I will be far below other system administrators. But at least I did not give up without a fight.
 
Old 02-26-2018, 12:52 PM   #48
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Knowing how DHCP works will help you to configure it, googling it will take much longer. But you will not configure DHCP day by day, so probably learning it will take more time than googling.
What you really use day by day you will learn (if you really want to do it), but you will forget it as soon as you start to do something completely different thing.
Certificate may only mean you are able to learn something, but certificate does not mean practice and does not mean creativity and a lot of other things (like how fast can you learn and how can you work together in a group).
 
Old 02-26-2018, 01:05 PM   #49
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Well, knowing DHCP client is configurable helps. So you can look up the options when you need. This is often the case, you need to know what is possible. How exactly is another thing. For instance, I have seen million ex-Windows users who want to use remote desktop because they need to run a GUI app remotely. They do not know it is possible without even having X server installed in remote box. This is what I call lack of necessary knowledge.
 
Old 02-26-2018, 01:12 PM   #50
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I found that it's much easy for me to read a book when Ivona voice (British man voice Brian) read it for me. It has such and awesome accent that I often understand sentence from the first time and if not I just click button and it reread it for me. It's not that I do not look to the book. It's like we read simultaneously and it's easier and no need to reread for 5 times.
If I will finish this book and other books on LPIC1 I will only need to cram some commands and I am ready to go pass the exam. If I pass my self-appraisal will increase so certification is a good thing and the little trick is to use Brian Ivona voice while reading books.
 
Old 02-26-2018, 04:50 PM   #51
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1 more thing against certification. Almost every vendor requires renewal every 3-5 years and I think that's the dumbest thing ever. I may pay some money for certification once, but I will NOT do it every 3 years. Certification killed itself for me.
 
Old 02-27-2018, 05:29 AM   #52
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Certifications are only "useful" for finding a job and maybe getting raises (doubt it thought). Which makes them useless if you HAVE a job. And even more useless if you don't. He hasn't worked in 2 years (because he was getting certified), isn't something employers want to hear IMO. Even though everything except work history is ideal for the job. And it was the employer requiring the certs to begin with.
 
Old 02-27-2018, 07:45 AM   #53
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If we want to generalize this discussion into "what is most-important to know," I would say: know how to use the command line.

Most of the systems I work with are on remote cloud servers, and they are "headless" in that no GUIs have been installed on them. (Although you most-certainly could.) All work is done through the command-line interface (CLI). You need to be comfortable and conversant using those tools.

(Also, note that many distributions provide character-mode "GUI-like" system administration tools, and you should also become cursorily familiar with them in case you encounter a "shop" that is using these. If you've got "literally hundreds of machines" (or, lately, "containers") to deal with, these can be handy.)
 
Old 02-27-2018, 07:57 AM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sundialsvcs View Post
If we want to generalize this discussion into "what is most-important to know," I would say: know how to use the command line.
Yes. This times 1000. When working with servers, it is essential to master the shell, both interactive and scripted.

link08, really from this distance the main (or only) thing I see certifications good for is providing a curriculum to self-study. Either way, the end result should be familiarity with the technology and not just cramming for the exam and then forgetting. Cram + Forget is just wasting money and means being unlikely to sneak past a job interview and being given the boot if you are accidentally hired.

Please re-read the comments from everyone else earlier in the thread. There is actually a lot of very valuable advice there.
 
Old 02-27-2018, 07:53 PM   #55
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"Yeah, if you seriously asked me to, I, as a professional swimmer, probably could cook up some kind of plausible 'swimming exam.'"

(And you, if you subsequently managed to 'pass it,' might even feel warm-and-fuzzy about yourself. Unless you drowned.)

None of this would be any bit of good with regards to what I every day face: a paying customer who every day relies upon me to work miracles based upon my by-now well-honed professional judgment.

What do I really need right now? I need an apprentice.

In the old days, it was understood that you began as an apprentice, then worked your way up to journeyman and then perhaps to master, learning as you went. It never would have occurred to you that some piece of paper would magically enable you to co-opt that process. You implicitly understood – or, you came to understand – that the line of work that you were entering was, in fact, a craft.

If you will but embark upon this path with eagerness and humility, as so many of your predecessors (like me ...) have done before you, then you will surely be welcomed into a craft that is endlessly rewarding – and fascinating. I frankly consider myself to be very privileged to have been a part of it, and I welcome you to it.

Last edited by sundialsvcs; 02-27-2018 at 07:57 PM.
 
Old 02-27-2018, 08:17 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sundialsvcs
"There is no 'Study.' Only Do."
There is no try only do.

There mere fact that NOBODY that I know learn certification in fair manner doesn't tell about certification itself. In scenario if someone cheat his way towards certification - yes, that become only theory.

The way that I prepare to exam is
- I read a book wilth help of Ivona voice and I try to understand EACH sentence. If I see the command or exercise I do EVERYTHING on virtual machine
- EVERY command or option to this command from the book I right down to Anki software and begin to cram until I memorize it all
- I read EVERY possible book on exam and watch EVERY possible video, because certification creators bastards tend to create books where not all topics are covered and on the exam - SUPRISE - questions not covered in the book - try one more time.
- I take EVERY possible test except dumps before the exam. There are also some "sum it up" short books or "command line references" books nad I read them all and see if I missed somethings
After it I pay for exam or my company pay and I go and try to pass it. And I NEVER use dumps.

I am not sure for programming though, but in system administrator you can master a lot using certification. At least after it you should be able to administer high load systems.

Certification has some drawbacks like requiring me to renew every 3 years and that's I think is ridiculous.

You continue to think that certification is mere theory. IT'S NOT. If you pass it by knowledge without ever looking to dumps it's not. If you PRACTICE every command from the book, look through most important options and cram it later IT'S NOT mere theory. And you will not pass without that.

P.S. I like using CAPS.

Last edited by link08; 02-27-2018 at 08:20 PM.
 
Old 02-28-2018, 07:25 AM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by link08 View Post
I am not sure for programming though, but in system administrator you can master a lot using certification. At least after it you should be able to administer high load systems.
You can't master ANYTHING by taking a test. A test proves you have the knowledge; it doesn't give that knowledge to you.
Quote:
You continue to think that certification is mere theory. IT'S NOT. If you pass it by knowledge without ever looking to dumps it's not. If you PRACTICE every command from the book, look through most important options and cram it later IT'S NOT mere theory. And you will not pass without that.
Again, link08...WHY DO YOU BOTHER POSTING?? You asked us for our opinions, and we've given them to you time after time. We said clearly "No, certifications aren't necessary, and that the tests are pretty worthless", and you KEEP ON ASKING.

You have already made up your mind that certifications are the greatest thing ever, that they somehow give you all you need to know (they DO NOT), and that the tests not just theory (they are). So if you already have made up your mind that this is the way it is, this entire thread is pointless. Go memorize every single command, and then THINK you are ready for the real world.

Be sure to check back in after you've been an administrator for a few months, and let us know how those exams gave you everything you need.
 
Old 02-28-2018, 07:33 AM   #58
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Get a sticker on your head.
 
Old 02-28-2018, 08:40 AM   #59
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Certifications are a product. Of course they want you to keep buying them over and over again.

Over the years, I have actually contributed to various certification exams. I did it, but I'm not impressed with the result. "The ability to 'take a test and pass it'" is not what you are actually tasked to do on-the-job. Doing so may well mislead you into supposing that you are qualified when in fact you are not.

The current crop of students was raised on taking multiple-choice tests, and told that "no child will be left behind," when the real world is not multiple-choice.

When I was in school, I routinely scored in the 98th and 99th percentile in every multiple-choice test I ever took. (I scored damn-near perfect on the SAT.) But not because I really was as smart as those tests said I was. I was able to do this because I puzzled-out how those test-makers think. And because I knew that in every case one of the answers in front of me was correct and that all of the others were wrong. Test-writers invariably start with the correct answer and then come up with wrong-answers that look similar to them, and with a little experience you can literally look at the questions, knowing nothing about the subject, and usually-correctly guess which one the right one is. I became so proficient at it that I could complete the tests in record time and still come out in the 98th and 99th across the board. I was even invited to take some tests that I didn't need because the test authors wanted the data, and I obliged. I guess they never knew.

If an employer ever asked me for a certification, I'd say, "sure, if you're paying for it." Every company has some amount of money budgeted for "professional development," and if they want to pay for training I'm very appreciative. Seriously: if they're willing to spend their own money on me, I'll try my best to return the favor. But I'm not going to spend one thin dime out of my own pocket for any such thing. And what would matter to me is the training – the cake – not the piece of paper "icing" on that cake. Give me good, rigorous training, and I will thank you sincerely. You can keep the pretty piece of paper.

Last edited by sundialsvcs; 02-28-2018 at 08:49 AM.
 
Old 03-01-2018, 05:10 AM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sundialsvcs View Post
...I was able to do this because I puzzled-out how those test-makers think...
I got good marks in school, because I gave the answers that I thought the teacher wanted. Not because I marked down the answer that I thought or KNEW was the correct answer.

About the only thing I've done with regards to certs was take a couple practice tests. For the A+ ones, I got > 70% with an 80% required to pass the actual cert. And I haven't used windows since Win ME. Or ever built a complete system from parts. Or ever had a job in systems administration. I certainly haven't read any books.

Sadly we'll probably have a whole generation of managers who require the certs out of spite, just because they had to have it to get hired. Not because it has any meaning or applicability to the job.
 
  


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