LinuxQuestions.org
Visit Jeremy's Blog.
Go Back   LinuxQuestions.org > Forums > Linux Forums > Linux - General > Linux - Certification
User Name
Password
Linux - Certification This forum is for the discussion of all topics relating to Linux certification.

Notices


Reply
  Search this Thread
Old 02-26-2018, 08:45 AM   #31
link08
LQ Newbie
 
Registered: Feb 2018
Posts: 24

Original Poster
Rep: Reputation: Disabled

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turbocapitalist
The editor vi is ubiquitous by mandate of the POSIX standard. All the POSIX systems have it in their base. If you are faced with a severely corrupted system and have to work in an emergency you will have it there in your tool box. I would deem it essential to know at least the basics of it. You will find it on all the GNU/Linux distros and each of the BSDs, including OS X there.

Learn it. It is very handy for working with configuration files and shell scripts, I find.
That's a very good argument that certification is really necessary.
 
Old 02-26-2018, 08:49 AM   #32
link08
LQ Newbie
 
Registered: Feb 2018
Posts: 24

Original Poster
Rep: Reputation: Disabled
Quote:
Originally Posted by TB0ne
We've told you over and over that this is not true, and for you to go and get experience, and not to focus on a certification.
Certification can give you experience almost of the same quality as work practice. Certification is not only about theory. I think of it this way: doctor can't study at home since he need a human to practice. But we can study since we can study on online labs and virtual machines.
 
Old 02-26-2018, 08:50 AM   #33
pan64
LQ Guru
 
Registered: Mar 2012
Location: Hungary
Distribution: debian/ubuntu/suse ...
Posts: 12,595

Rep: Reputation: 3936Reputation: 3936Reputation: 3936Reputation: 3936Reputation: 3936Reputation: 3936Reputation: 3936Reputation: 3936Reputation: 3936Reputation: 3936Reputation: 3936
Quote:
Originally Posted by link08 View Post
Yeah, I thought that's really all vi commands. If it's not - I am sorry. But still much commands to learn.
No, this is only a very few of them. vi has (almost) thousands of commands, including a huge amount of features like syntax highlighting, program buildig/debugging and so on. What you posted is just the very beginning of a vi course.
From the other hand learning those basic commands will not take time at all - and really far from perfectionism, and obviously required if you want to use vi.

Last edited by pan64; 02-26-2018 at 08:54 AM.
 
Old 02-26-2018, 08:53 AM   #34
link08
LQ Newbie
 
Registered: Feb 2018
Posts: 24

Original Poster
Rep: Reputation: Disabled
Quote:
Originally Posted by TB0ne
I've known several people who have studied off-the-shelf Linux books and have easily passed the exams. If you can't, that's your fault.
May be they can pass entry level certification, like I am studying now. But there are higher levels. Like http://www.lpi.org/our-certification...304-objectives or CCIE.
 
Old 02-26-2018, 08:58 AM   #35
link08
LQ Newbie
 
Registered: Feb 2018
Posts: 24

Original Poster
Rep: Reputation: Disabled
Quote:
No, this is only a very few of them. vi has (almost) thousands of commands, including a huge amount of features like syntax highlighting, program buildig/debugging and so own. What you posted is just the very beginning of a vi course.
From the other hand learning those basic commands will not take time at all - and really far from perfectionism, and obviously required if you want to use vi.
Than I am wrong and I am sorry for that.
Still number of technologies is so big that may be learning even this basic is not needed, since you can use vim and on broken system with vi only you only need to know how to enter insert mode and save a file.
 
Old 02-26-2018, 09:01 AM   #36
link08
LQ Newbie
 
Registered: Feb 2018
Posts: 24

Original Poster
Rep: Reputation: Disabled
Quote:
Originally Posted by pan64
From the other hand learning those basic commands will not take time at all - and really far from perfectionism, and obviously required if you want to use vi.
But there are other things in the exam except vi and there are other exams except this one and except exam I have other things to do so if I cram vi commands it will take me 15 years to learn everything that I need for good job.
 
Old 02-26-2018, 09:06 AM   #37
TB0ne
LQ Guru
 
Registered: Jul 2003
Location: Birmingham, Alabama
Distribution: SuSE, RedHat, Slack,CentOS
Posts: 21,377

Rep: Reputation: 5572Reputation: 5572Reputation: 5572Reputation: 5572Reputation: 5572Reputation: 5572Reputation: 5572Reputation: 5572Reputation: 5572Reputation: 5572Reputation: 5572
Quote:
Originally Posted by link08 View Post
May be they can pass entry level certification, like I am studying now. But there are higher levels. Like http://www.lpi.org/our-certification...304-objectives or CCIE.
Nope, sorry. They've not only passed those, but higher level ones, because (unlike you), they have tried to get ACTUAL EXPERIENCE, and work through issues. They think, and work, towards a goal. They gain knowledge every day, and don't harp on how they need to "memorize vi", before they take a single step. They have the knowledge, so passing exams is trivial.
 
Old 02-26-2018, 09:10 AM   #38
TB0ne
LQ Guru
 
Registered: Jul 2003
Location: Birmingham, Alabama
Distribution: SuSE, RedHat, Slack,CentOS
Posts: 21,377

Rep: Reputation: 5572Reputation: 5572Reputation: 5572Reputation: 5572Reputation: 5572Reputation: 5572Reputation: 5572Reputation: 5572Reputation: 5572Reputation: 5572Reputation: 5572
Quote:
Originally Posted by link08 View Post
That's a very good argument that certification is really necessary.
Sorry, no...it isn't. That's like saying "you need to be a licensed electrician, because sometimes you may need to plug a computer in!". Basic vi skills are good to have...but you can also use emacs or nano as well. Because it's all about needing BASIC skills in editing a file. There STILL isn't a 'vi certification'.
Quote:
Certification can give you experience almost of the same quality as work practice. Certification is not only about theory. I think of it this way: doctor can't study at home since he need a human to practice. But we can study since we can study on online labs and virtual machines.
Wrong...it absolutely WILL NOT give you the same experience as work. And by using your own example, you **JUST SAID** that you need actual work knowledge/practice. Like you said, a dr. needs to see patients. Right...which is exactly why you work and get experience, BEFORE YOU TAKE YOUR EXAMS.

Please, do everyone a favor; if you're so against learning that you won't accept anyones answers but your own, get a different line of work.
 
Old 02-26-2018, 09:13 AM   #39
link08
LQ Newbie
 
Registered: Feb 2018
Posts: 24

Original Poster
Rep: Reputation: Disabled
Quote:
Originally Posted by TB0ne
They gain knowledge every day, and don't harp on how they need to "memorize vi", before they take a single step.
I already read 6 chapters from the book on the exam. It took me ages since I have problems with concentration of attention. Before I was preparing to Microsoft 70-642 exam and read several books but didn't pass and I was not using dumps. And several years I have big family problems so wasn't study at all. And if that's true that someone passed by knowledge higher level certifications I only can say that they will be always better me and I will be on their level in 10 years, because I study very slow. So at least first step I have done.
 
Old 02-26-2018, 09:19 AM   #40
link08
LQ Newbie
 
Registered: Feb 2018
Posts: 24

Original Poster
Rep: Reputation: Disabled
Quote:
Originally Posted by TB0ne
Wrong...it absolutely WILL NOT give you the same experience as work.
Why not if I practice each command on virtual machine or machines? VMWare Workstation support VLANs and I can make even Virtual Machines clusters. And everything that I read I try on Virtual Machines. Why will not it give experience?
 
Old 02-26-2018, 09:23 AM   #41
link08
LQ Newbie
 
Registered: Feb 2018
Posts: 24

Original Poster
Rep: Reputation: Disabled
Quote:
Originally Posted by TB0ne
Sorry, no...it isn't. That's like saying "you need to be a licensed electrician, because sometimes you may need to plug a computer in!". Basic vi skills are good to have...but you can also use emacs or nano as well. Because it's all about needing BASIC skills in editing a file. There STILL isn't a 'vi certification'.
I can agree with that. Certification creators want from us too much. I already know how to enter insert mode in vi and save a file. I should not spend my time memorizing this:
/, ?
h,j,k,l
i, o, a
c, d, p, y, dd, yy
ZZ, :w!, :q!, :e!
 
Old 02-26-2018, 09:58 AM   #42
Emerson
LQ Guru
 
Registered: Nov 2004
Location: Saint Amant, Acadiana
Distribution: Gentoo ~arch
Posts: 6,316

Rep: Reputation: Disabled
I used to be a technical manager, in charge of about 1,500 specialized computers. I did the hiring for my department, indeed. I think certifications show the applicant is interested and willing to learn. Nothing more. The questions I asked when interviewing were to determine how well the potential new technician can do the actual daily work. Creativity, ability to think outside of box, troubleshooting skills and approach. I often asked who fixes stuff at home, do you call a handyman or you fix it yourself? Because as usual, there are two kind of people, people who break things and people who fix things. I wanted to be sure the applicant I'm hiring is the latter.
 
Old 02-26-2018, 10:54 AM   #43
sundialsvcs
LQ Guru
 
Registered: Feb 2004
Location: SE Tennessee, USA
Distribution: Gentoo, LFS
Posts: 9,078
Blog Entries: 4

Rep: Reputation: 3175Reputation: 3175Reputation: 3175Reputation: 3175Reputation: 3175Reputation: 3175Reputation: 3175Reputation: 3175Reputation: 3175Reputation: 3175Reputation: 3175
To paraphrase Master Yoda from Star Wars:

"There is no 'Study.' Only Do."

Proficiency in computer programming is rather a lot like swimming – you can really only learn to do it in the water.

As I've said many times here, my first computer job consisted of tearing pages off a line-printer and shoving them through the appropriate slot in the wall. I didn't care – I was inside the "Machine Room." (Personal computers at that time were mere toys.)

Everything I learned, I learned by doing one thing after another. The very first computer program that I attempted was eight lines long, took me six months to write, and had a bug in it. But, too-many decades later, I am still engaged by the process of actually causing a tiny piece of over-glorified sand to do something very interesting on its own. I am still making a living from one of my hobbies. And, I am still jazzed when I'm able to do something that makes life a little bit easier for someone else, and they say, "thanks."

Last edited by sundialsvcs; 02-26-2018 at 10:56 AM.
 
1 members found this post helpful.
Old 02-26-2018, 11:10 AM   #44
link08
LQ Newbie
 
Registered: Feb 2018
Posts: 24

Original Poster
Rep: Reputation: Disabled
Quote:
Originally Posted by sundialsvcs
Proficiency in computer programming is rather a lot like swimming you can really only learn to do it in the water.
Then you just have your own swimming pool at home which is called VMWare Workstation.
There is no work that will teach you such variety of topics, as certification will do. Number of technologies of your work is always limited. And I am not saying that studying at work is bad. I have 3 big automation projects finished during my 10 years experience. But if you take certification without work and give person enough time to master and pass it without dumps - that knowledge will be almost of the same level as if you work with that technologies at work.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sundialsvcs
And, I am still jazzed when I'm able to do something that makes life a little bit easier for someone else, and they say, "thanks."
People don't like truth. They will thank if you agree with their opinion. No on will ever thank you for criticism (except may be God after your death). I start feeling more and more like tyrant, since I almost always disagree with the point of view of most.

Last edited by link08; 02-26-2018 at 11:12 AM.
 
Old 02-26-2018, 11:38 AM   #45
pan64
LQ Guru
 
Registered: Mar 2012
Location: Hungary
Distribution: debian/ubuntu/suse ...
Posts: 12,595

Rep: Reputation: 3936Reputation: 3936Reputation: 3936Reputation: 3936Reputation: 3936Reputation: 3936Reputation: 3936Reputation: 3936Reputation: 3936Reputation: 3936Reputation: 3936
At first vi and vim (and even gvim) are exactly the same form this point of view. All know these commands and act the same way.

Quote:
Originally Posted by link08 View Post
I can agree with that. Certification creators want from us too much. I already know how to enter insert mode in vi and save a file. I should not spend my time memorizing this:
/, ?
h,j,k,l
i, o, a
c, d, p, y, dd, yy
ZZ, :w!, :q!, :e!
This is quite simple, most of these commands are just abbreviations of English words, so there is almost no need to learn them.
Obviously there are exceptions, like cursor movement keys, which are just simply laying next to each other. You need to know only h and l are left and right (and they are on the left and right side of these keys), j and k are down and up.
i, o, a are insert, open and append.
c, d, p, y are change, delete, put, yank (double means you want to work on the whole line: cc, dd, pp, yy work too)

So for me it was quite easy, I used these "keywords" during editing - in my head, instead of just those [first] letters.

:w :q :e => write, quit, exit
ZZ is an exception, but that is a key combination I have never used and I still live.


And again, it is only the very first lesson and takes a few hours (minutes?) to learn. It is really very far from professionalism and/or perfectionism. Knowing this is not too much but the bare minimum (to be able to use it).
Since you started this post you could learn all of it - and even more, but you will not get any kind of certificate for that.
 
1 members found this post helpful.
  


Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off



LinuxQuestions.org > Forums > Linux Forums > Linux - General > Linux - Certification

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:56 AM.

Main Menu
Advertisement
My LQ
Write for LQ
LinuxQuestions.org is looking for people interested in writing Editorials, Articles, Reviews, and more. If you'd like to contribute content, let us know.
Main Menu
Syndicate
RSS1  Latest Threads
RSS1  LQ News
Twitter: @linuxquestions
Facebook: linuxquestions Google+: linuxquestions
Open Source Consulting | Domain Registration