From TUX magazine. Great for newbies. Look it up and if you subscribe they will send you an e-mail edition every month. It covers lots of diferent distros and issues though andn has limited "geek speak" so you can actaully understand it, lol.

However - a questionable choice is this: a distro that tries to be a windows clone and sees nothing wrong with doing everything as root?

OTOH: I have seen good reviews about installation and ease of use.

Who said you always have to run as root? I don't. THere have been alot of changes since you used it last it sounds like. Robertson changed that a loooong time ago. Time to try 5.0 and give it a shot. BTW CNR basic is down to $19.95(after the OS purchase of course) there is the Gold package which most people don't seem alll that interested in anyway but it is still available. CNR price was one really big sore point people had with it, but things have really started to change.

tux magazine reviews are very "light" and not much as far as a review, always seems like it is more of a paid advertisement...

but I must admit that I do find some good stuff in them but I dont consider the OS reviews to be that great...

things havent changed, you still have to be root! or suffer the fact that a lot of things do not work as a user, or stuff doesnt install correctly and so forth...

Well actuall the Default setup in Linspire is that you always run as Root (Administrator as they call it these days). but you can add users if you want and use those accounts (but I hear there are some problems with the user accounts in Linspire 5.0).

The Root vs. User isue is something that's going on a long time and many seasoned Linux users see it as a problem (now to make clear I myself hardly ever use the root account on my system but I use Debian and not Linspire).
Linspire thinks of it as not a big problem since it's not a server or multi-user PC but a home desktop product and it's easier to install software without having to give the root password everytime.

As long as Linspire defaults to root/Administrator with no explanation of the issue, or fails to come with a system that satisfies our legitimate security concerns, I will NOT be recommending it. In fact, I will be recommending against it.

What is wrong with the SmplyMEPIS demo/root method?

If I can explain user names, pass words, logging in, & even OS selection (unfortunately M$) in a boot loader to absolute beginners; why can't Linspire do away with defaulting to root? (I teach a class called "Basic Computer Use" & I have a little experience in the area.)

There is nothing wrong with making thing as simple, painless, & easy as possible without compromising security. People, regular users, can learn that some things should not be done lightly (i.e. as a regular user); they are not as stupid as P. T. Barnum, Bill Gates, or Michael Robertson would like to think they are.

</rant>

Well Linspire feels that their "end users" don't want to bother with switching to the root account everytime they want to install some new program. people comming from a windows background wouldn't understand the reasons as to WHY they would need to do it (remeber that even WindowsXP defaults to Administrator as the user and well since about 90% of the people uses Windows they are used to that setuo and Linspire tried to make the transition as easy as possible).
Also they feel that since Linspire users are home users (and about everybody has his/her own PC) there is no real reason for user accounts since :
- Mostly only 1 person will use the system (it owner)
- Incase of a hack/virus/accidental delete it doesn't matter if you delete $HOME or / since the users "important" data will be in $HOME so even as NON-Root user you can destroy/loose valuable data.
- Linspire takes about 10Min. to install so they guess incase of dataloss due to someting like a virus/hacker/rm -rf / they user can install and be running in less then 30 minutes anyways.

Now I might not agree with their viewpoint but I must say that incase of a 1 PC per User setup it kinda makes some sence. and if someone who wants to cause some damage tells you to give the command : "rm -rf /" tells you to first make sure you are root (su or something like that) a newbie user is gonna "trust" that person al wreck his/her system anyways (even when running in a limited user account).

Linux is designed as a server O/S and as a O/S for multiple users (workstations) and in that view the model of never using the root account for a normal user or anything other then system maintenance made a lot more sence.

Having this said, I want to stretch that I personally ALWAYS use a USER account and only switch to ROOT to do system maintenance and stuff like that (but I'm not a Linspire user or part of the Linspire Target market )

As long as this single user machine is going to be connected to the 'net, even if only w/ a modem, it is vulnerable. I believe that the Linspire target market, "Aunt Tillie" & Sharon's mother, are getting a computer primary to use e-mail; & that means a 'net connection.

If "Aunt Tillie" were getting her 1st car, you wouldn't (I hope) put tape over the door locks because you thought it was too difficult to teach her to use the key. No, you would explain about joy-riders & other car thieves and teach her to protect herself. Heck, she probably already understands about locking the doors when she leaves her home to do errands.

Remember, it is only a matter of time (when, not if) before we are going to see malware targeted at Linux. Granted, it will be more difficult to write & probably be less destructive than its Winders(tm) counterparts. When that happens, I suspect that this issue will be much more important & we will regret not taking the opportunity to train our users in this simple security measure now. All it takes is the willingness to find the words, the metaphors, that make it make sense to "Aunt Tillie", Sharon's mother, & their friends.

Perhaps the door lock imagery above is useful, I am going to try it out next week on my current crop of "Aunt Tillie"s in my "Basic Computer Use" class.

I think I agree. I had trouble following your post but I think I got the message. (my fault - no coffee, just awoke)

So you are saying teaching security BEFORE there is any problem would ensure that down the road if there was to be security problems then people would already know how to protect themselves. Or teach people the correct way to begin with, instead of waiting until there are problems and then trying to UN-teach the wrong way and start teaching the right way.

I think it is a excellent message!
--hypothetical follows--
Of course a distro might be hoping that by making you run as root and so forth that when the malware and viruses start they can then be the ones to provide the solution and thereby make money! Especially if they already have built in virus safety and surfing controls and a automatic updater and so forth. That is a hypothetical thought.

I meant "teach people the correct way to begin with, instead of waiting until there are problems and then trying to UN-teach the wrong way and start teaching the right way."

I hope your hypothetical thought is just a case of mild paranoia...

Thanks for the kind words.

Ok I think need to clarify....

Install Linspire in order to be sure.... One of the last things you have to do before using Lisnpire is to finish setup "INLCUDING THE USERS ACCOUNTS".... the CNR included works "ON ANY USER ACCOUNT" so installing app's is not a problem still can use "SU" "SUDO" for own app's instalation (not CNR's) as the rest of the Linux distros....

said...

ask me if you need something else to clarify...

Linspire tries to be as much like that othjer OS as possible. It uses the same paradigms and the same arguments for them as their big-name rival.

The arguments have the same counter-args. Personally, if you want to use windows, do so. To me, linspire is like abtaining all the specs and materials to build a porsche then deliberately contructing a toyota out of them.

I have seen numerous posts over at ANOTHER forum that specifically show that there are numerous problems using CNR and installing/using software when you are not running as root in Linspire. The fact that the VAST majority of Linspire users DO run as root would be evidence of this and there is a poll at another forum that shows the vast majority of them do so. So I do believe this to be a issue with if you are considering Linspire.

I think that lusers fresh from windows will like linspire. However, I think they will miss their windows. Can we hear from the linspire users in this forum?

There are many good nix's which are also good for newbies. But it would be bad form to mention them here (in linspire forum).

Just beacuse you arent paranoid dont mean they arent out to get you!

But that is a excellent message since we have all probably had to UN-learn the wrong way and relearn the right way of something....