I never said they didn't participate or that they did not comply with open source. Don't put words in my mouth. But since you brought it up, I'd like to see cnr open up. I mean they did use apt-get in cnr's development, why not give back?

I know that LinSpire does give back to the community, one example is Nvu. No weather or not they have provided all of the code for CNR is another thing. But I can't really blame them is they want to hold on to it for a little while. It is one of the features that distinguishes them from all of the other Linux distros out there. The fact that I am able to click and install, or click and update, or click and have it uninstall is great and a feature that I have yet to see implemented as nicely on other distros. LinSpire supports the open sources community with code as well as with money, and time. So the way that I see it they are just as much linux as any other distro that is out there trying to make a profit.

I never said that they weren't linux dude. I hear alot of people talking about how unique the cnr is. In reality it isn't unique. SuSE gives its users the ability to install software via ftp server instead of cds and YOU allows updating and patching. Apt-get lets deb users install in much the same way cnr does. And i'd imagine that there are guis for apt-get that would greatly resemble cnr. Except of course that it would be free. SuSE had no problem opening up YAST. How about Linspire matching it? I know what you're saying about these linux distros being able to make money, but I don't think that they have to have closed software to do it. Now remember, that I'm not trying to argue, you asked so I told you what I thought.

My question to you is, have you tried another distro besides Linspire? Or is this your first linux experience? Cuz I think you'd be surprised at alot of the distros, and how they handle package management.

Joining in...... SuSE didn't open up YAST, they kept it closed since they started it. Novell opened up YAST: http://news.com.com/2100-7344_3-5175...l?tag=nefd_top

Back to the main program.....

Sorry if I came across as trying to argue, I didn't intend for that to be the case. I just wanted to better understand what you ment by stating that "linux is more than just a kernel".

uh.. what is the difference dude. Its open. Novell bout SuSE. Novell and SuSE are one-in-the same.

Linux is the kernel. GNU/Linux is the kernel plus all the programs that make up a distro.

Remember, Linux was not created to start a movement. Linus Torvalds created it (as others did with their own *nixes) because Unix was too expensive.

Lindows is the firs that I have used and really enjoyed. I have sence also been using Knoppix on my laptop.

I think that persons who actually use LInspire, and know true Linux and the differences should be making the case for or against the OS. There always seems to be a sorted 'popularity' contest in which at some point I am afraid somebody is going to start shouting 'oh yeh?...my dad can beat up your dad!!".

I have read pretty much every post within this section only to find alot of 'outside' perceptions present which is usually done by persons who have bought their first Linux OS (which of course in this thread would obviously be Linspire) and the exictement that is generated with that purchase, which leads in short a dangerous path to those who have tasted the many flavors of LInux and their very refined opinions and a clashing of 'old school' and 'new school'.

I can get more detailed with this as far as what Linspire can and cant do, but for the most part, let us think of one thing that keeps forums like these open. Excitement about Linux. If Linspire sparks a few more conversions from Windows, and continues to drive a market share a bit more towards Linux, than great...so be it, and who really cares?

For the first time, I have seen SuSe distros in Best Buy, and I think that is great! They used to carry Redhat (one copy of course) but since my purchase of SuSe 9.0 awhile back, 9.1 is now stocked on the shelves right next to XP Home and Pro.

In a nutshell, the message is getting out there, so who gives a flying <?php include("badwords"); ?> who sends it.

This argument, as well as the Xandros fiasco has everybody wondering what exactly is going on over there. They do support a huge amount of Linux factions and seem to be getting the message out there that Linux can be user friendly.

It is in my opinion though, that it is a bit to user friendly, and when a distro slowly rips some of the core guts of Linux out...one has to think down the lines of probable proprietary situations.

I am still however waiting for 5.0 before I make any final decisions on the OS. To me, that is their make or break version. From the way it sounds, they will deliver on several promises of a much better OS, so I think it only fair to give them another shot.

I would completely agree that they do send a message that linux can be totally easy to use. But where's that message that says linux can be totally open as well?

synaptic

Agreed, and I for one, do have a certain conflict with this nature.

Arguments made for or against CNR
In my opinion, since CNR is based quite heavily off of apt-get with a GUI interactive (server and client side) interface, it could be assumed that the Debian community would be a beneficiary of this utility. On the other end of the spectrum, CNR is undergoing constant changes to work out some of the bugs (there are a few still lingering) and in all honesty, the CNR warehouse is a pretty slick implementation of user friendliness that leads to ease of use, and of course downloading your favorite applications. However, with OS operations such as SuSe, they felt that including all of those applications on disks would make the ease of installation easier and this is where the real benefit really makes it's mark whereas CNR in a nutshell makes you pay for what most of us were getting for free via apt-get.

With Linspire, there is really no tools to compile with off the bat unless you download them from their CNR warehouse. Now..if you do not have a Internet connection due to a possible problem with a missing driver, or the actual ability to compile a existing driver on your machine, CNR really at that point does nothing for you. You cannot access CNR with any other variety of Linux distro, so even if you bought into CNR, those programs are for Linspire only. This is a hard pill for me to swallow, considering I did purchase a codec included DVD player that did not skip or hesitate from this warehouse. I have a $80.00 program on XP, one for LInspire, and a buggy one for SuSe (due to now impeding codec mungers and lawsuits) so it is catch 22 on that end as well.

The main points are that CNR is a slick outfit, but the actual direction it is going seems to me (and I have voiced this over there as well) was that is headed in a proprietary direction, which really does nothing for the nature of open source contributions.

The jury is still out on this one though. They could in a few versions, release CNR to distros to use as free source, but in the end, will it really matter? Will other distros go with this style of downloading rather than implementations such as Yast/YOU which is quite superior to other varieties? Would CNR allow access by all varieties of distros to download from a general Linux warehouse categorized by package extensions such as DEB or RPM?

In all honesty, SuSe has given me the option to do all of that and than some with the ability to play both sides of the fence with Yast/YOU and that double environment is something I am afraid that CNR will not be able to contribute even if it is released to the general public, due in part it is set for one thing, and one thing only.

The points of this conflict generally revolve around CNR as a proprietary device for the Linspire OS. They sell the CNR as a service, so why just make the warehouse for the LInspire OS? If indeed they wanted to take the approach of keeping all sides happy, a possible service to other distros via the CNR application device could be sold. Just download it according to your distro package, access the warehouse, and according to the flavor of distro you are using, access those programs. A consortium of program warehouse sorts for Linux in similar fashion of FreshMeat via CNR.

This is really funny.Haven't heard the dev's at debian complain that linwhatever uses apt but the users do.As a matter of fact some debian dev's work for them - should string those traitors up.After all who needs money?Freeloading rules!