yeah what is with cnr, you gotta buy lindows, then cnr? how dumb, i just got my version from a torrent, ver 4.5, looks nice, but thats about it, i think it comes with wine though, supposed to work well with limewire

hmmm....

trickykid, I have a feeling that you and some other moderators of this forum are (or have become - cause I've read some of your reviews and you personally don't seem like that to me) a bit too conservative.I don't think I tried to "bash" Lindows in the other thread. Sure I am not conservative in any way, so wherever there's a discussion I'm taking part in, I alwasys make my points very clear (and since my opinions aren't popular most of the times, I usually get bashed by other members). But non of them is without reasoning or does include any kind of insults, and therefore can't be called "bashing". But you simply told me to go search the web to find similar opinions to mine elsewhere (and it wasn't the first time I've seen that kind of attitude from mod, either towards me or someone else). I know that you're already putting more effort than you should into your moderation duties here, and as a member I appreciate that. But please, if you claim that you really believe in freedom of speech and are promoting it in this website (or aren't against it at least), don't disappoint the members for the sake of keeping he discussions "moderate" or some other weird reason.

LindowsOS behaves a lot like Windows, has a similar business model (though smarter) and great tutorials - but it is a linux.

O.k. you say I have to pay for it - so I gave it a try, a first sceptical glance - where is the point I do have to pay something and how much? And I found out, well you don't have to pay if you don't want to: When you decide to pay you don't pay for the software, you pay for the convenience.

I set up my LindowsOS system at NO cost at all as follows (assumed you have a flat rate and don't pay to your provider for every MB you download you can easily do the same):

- downloaded the 4.5 Developer Edition (packed with all needed libs, headers and compilers to instantly start developping) via http://www.nvu.com (Lindows still offers it for free to nvu users)
- registered at lindows.com (name, email, still no costs at all - and if you don't want to receive emails give them a mailinator.com address)
- configured CNR to save my downloads in /var/cache/.repository so that I can re-use them without downloading again
- downloaded the following from CNR (no costs):
- language pack, European international fonts and some updates (samba)
- the very nice WYSIWYG HTML editor nvu (reminds me of AOLpress which I liked a lot)
- games Breakfree II, Billards, Quick Tetris, Remote Backgammon, Video Poker
- tools ksnapshot, kcalc, Digikam, EasyGPaint, KreateCD, Kscd, KNotes (o.k. ksnapshot, kcalc and knotes I had expected to be in the basic system)
- RealPlayer, Tux Typing (typing tutor, game-like) and Write Pro (kword)

until now, no costs

- went to http://www.openlindows.com/ and downloaded
- OpenOffice.org, xchat, firebird, thunderbird, kaffeine and a tool to disable CNR for users
- installed them via a terminal by typing dpkg -i *.deb

- edited /etc/apt/sources.list (removed #) so that I can use the Debian install tool apt-get
- opened a terminal and typed apt-get update (fetches a list of available programs)
- typed apt-get install synaptic (downloaded a graphical frontend for apt-get)
- downloaded and installed Midnight Commander and gkrellm (system monitor) via synaptic

So let's put together:
I can edit HTML files and publish them on the internet, have a complete office environment (even with alternative), can do basic graphics editing, can surf and write/receive emails, can use my digital camera, play mp3 music (xmms is included), can learn typing, burn cds (k3b included, kreatecd as an alternative), play different games....

What do I miss? The Gimp. Guess it is no big problem to download it via synaptic.
You only have to watch out that via this method you don't overwrite any LindowsOS specific files and configurations - so better don't try to update KDE or so...

And now I'm going to look for frozen-bubble, Pysol or kpat, tuxracer, iglooftp or axyftp...

All the desktop goodies like wallpapers you can find in the CNR warehouse you also can find on the net (deviantArt for example) for free (not the same but very good looking too).

Well I admit the kids theme I'd like to have... But if you only want the icons you can download them via kde-look.org...

Nevertheless - when I have managed to install LindowsOS 4.5 on my second pc (scsi) - or decide not to install it there - I will testdrive the free CNR 15-day membership I guess.

So - why do use LindowsOS if I do not want to make use of the whole CNR functionality? Why not install Debian right away for it's a "real" linux?

I like the look of LindowsOS, I like it's absolutely great tutorials, the installation is done with one mouse click (assumed you do not have a nvidia graphics card or some scsi devices or an elsa microlink 56k serial modem), you don't have to deal with the mounting of drives, cdroms are autostarted, there are no maintenance issues for the system checks for and installs updates by itself, everything is easy to find even for Windows users and if you want a special program installed with a lot of convenience you have the OPTION to always go to the CNR warehouse, pay your 4,95$ (for 1 month membership) and there it is.

Yes I like it - but I won't use it as my main working system (for now that's a SuSE 9.0 installation which I crippled a little bit to use KDE 3.2) because it has to much "Windows" feeling and offers not enough choice (IMHO) and background knowledge. Maybe I don't want my CDs to be autostarted, maybe I want to mount and unmount my drives by myself (in LindowsOS you even don't get to KNOW that mounting is the normal linux way of accessing a drive)...

LindowsOS is based upon Debian linux - but it doesn't do things the linux way... And for that reason I love to play around with it but don't want to work with it. But I often set up older pcs for novice users and for that purpose it might be a good choice. That's the way of bringing linux to the desktop and to the masses. You can say it is what AOL is for the internet (a nice and shiny surface where you just have to use things - not to understand them*) and therefore I really do believe LindowsOS is the gate(s)way to Desktop-Linux

Judge for yourself.

BTW: Be aware that LindowsOS 4.5 may not be capable of detecting your scsi controller (so if you only have a scsi cdrom the installation maybe won't work at all) - it's a known problem. LindowsOS 3.0 installed just fine on that system, but 4.5 cannot detect the cdrom (in diagnostics mode it tells you to set FOUND_CDROM - what the heck... dunno)...

*) I know AOLers who asked seriously "I typed in xyz@somewhere.net - why don't I see a webpage?" or they try to send emails to www.myname@somewhere.net... And years ago when I still used mailboxes (and I do not mean those boxes to store mail in) and usenet with something obscure called crosspoint (and obstinately refused to the www) and thousands of unpolite newbies scrambled into the newsgroups with absurd ideas of how we - who where there for years - now have to change for them (I remember lots of unreadable postings because of to our eyes wrong encoding which they declared to be the new standard) - I felt that with AOL the "good old values" vanished - but it was succesful.

why doesn't someone just tweak Lindows a little bit than offer it for free. That wouldn't constitute a violation of the GNU license, would it?

I don't like it,but better then windoze or winsucks whatsmore chipper,but why use lindows or winsucks and bother?

It is Linux just as much as Slackware or Debian are Linux.

I have used Lindows and I installed from tarballs and also from Debian packages, though one has to be careful when doing that since some packages might break CnR or other Lindows-specific apps.

I found Lindows to be great for people who are new to Linux or who have never owned a computer, but since I have used Debian for a long time (and yucky Caldera before that), I found Lindows to have limitations when it comes to customizing my system (recompiling kernels and such). I found out after many failures that it is possible to recompile a kernel under Lindows, but documentation was lacking and that was the reason I had difficulties.

Lindows also did not work well for me on dialup but it works great if one has a broadband connection to the Internet. Xandros on the other hand was not too bad even on dialup.

It seems to me that Lindows has a blatant disregard for security. When an OS tries to copy another OS, (windows) so that its users can benefit from ease-of-use, you start running into problems. You also end up copying its faults as well as its benefits. And in the case of lindows you find just that. No password by default for root. What is that?????? No easy way by default to find a shell. come on! I'm sorry to everyone who likes this OS, but I'd sooner use windows. And I wouldn't put it in the same category as "LINUX".

That's just my two cents. Flame me or censor me if you want, but you can never accuse me of not having passion for what "linux" truly is.

That was the worst problem I found with Lindows, that it starts the new user as the root user and unless they have used Linux before, they have no idea that they should not login as root except for performing administrative tasks on the system. Lindows needs better documentation but that is no reason to trash Linux in favor of anything that comes out of Redmond.

I wonder why you would even be here if you mean it when you say you would sooner use Windows.

Quote:

Originally posted by jeremy You could not be more correct in that I really feel this is one of the friendliest forums on the web. While I am open to both sides of every argument in every situation and am a big proponent of free speech, simply bashing a product is silly and pointless. If you don't like something feel free to point it out in a constructive way, but bashing is not (and will not be) tolerated here. I wouldn't have thought I would have even had to say this... --jeremy

This I totally agree with, I have my own opinion about Lindows, but I have already said it and don't expect my personal decision to use something (Lindows or other) to have a valid use here. Some people will use and like it, some people use and like Windows. Just my cause in the future, if I post here, it will be something I think may be new and helpful to this forum and/or Lindows users.

It is strange that people have such a hard time with lindows.It's just another distro.You can't download it for free - so what?Suse doesn't give you iso's either.A bunch of debian knockoff's only lets you download old versions.Why is nobody bashing on those guys (not that you should)?Must be some kind of fashion statement.There are people that have to pay bills in this world.

I think that what appears to offend the posters is that someone has released a version of Linux that is going head to head with Windows desktop. It's still Linux, the commands are still there and it should be as customisable as any other distro. CNR isn't the only way to install - there's still apt-get, the .debs and the tarballs. Same as you don't have to use the rpms in RH, SuSE or Mdk.

Well I don't think most of the people have a problem with the fact that you can't get lindows for free. I don't know for a fact if you can or can't, so I can't really comment on that. The more linux distributions the better. (or at least I thought so) The more publicity the better. But I think its just disturbing that the general security model or ideal created by the linux community is being circumvented. I truly believe that this is a big deal. I'm not saying that lindows is a bad distro. All there really is that I would like to say, is be cautious. Especially you newbies looking for a distro. Yea, it may be easier to use, than most. But at what cost. Just because you use a kernel developed by Linus doesn't mean that its Linux. There are also standards and ideals to follow. I can't believe there isn't more of an uproar about the root situation. Remember all those threads you read when you were a newbie telling you not to be root 24/7? But perhaps my passion for linux far exceeds yours....

Passion has nothing to do with it. Linux is, in this case IMO, simply a vehicle. It wasn't designed or started to beat MS. Linus has said many times that that is not his aim - it was a hobby project.

The only cost to newbies is financial. If it gets them using Linux then what does it matter? Most distros have a paid for version - and you get more in the boxed sets than you do in the download versions. Lindows is doing nothing wrong - I believe that they offer the source code from their website (if you hunt for it). They are filling a niche in the market. Not everyone wants to get their hands dirty with partitioning and configuring. They want an OS which is as simple as possible to install. Lindows does that.

Linux is a tool, much like a hammer or screwdriver - it's there to do a job. Nothing more.

Well maybe your right. But if I saw linux as just a tool, then I'd use windows because its a tool as well. Perhaps we just don't see eye-to-eye on this, which is fine. I just look at linux different than you do. But in any event, I never said linux was started to beat MS.

Is that lin-dohs, or line-dohs?