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Old 01-08-2008, 10:34 AM   #1
jgombos
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Windows users are gaining up on me!


I tried to offer live linux CD as a temporary solution to a windows user who's down, and this hot headed group of windows fans are killing me! LOL.. check out this thread:

http://forums.slickdeals.net/showthr...d=320&t=701887

I could take them all on, really.. but not sure I have the energy for it. Help me out here, you linux adovocates! I'd hate to see a user mislead away from linux by peoples emotions, when linux could provide them with some immediate relief.

Last edited by jgombos; 01-08-2008 at 10:44 AM.
 
Old 01-08-2008, 10:57 AM   #2
trickykid
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Well the first problem I see is the site itself. A website that promotes coupons and other deals is just a malware safe haven. The people who hang out at these types of websites (like my wife) usually aren't too technically inclined with computers. I'd say you're just wasting your life trying to argue with the misinformed. Better to just move on, you made your suggestion for the fix, no reason to start a flame war over it and get our members involved as well. By getting a bunch of Linux advocates involved will just make us look like trolls to them..
 
Old 01-08-2008, 11:09 AM   #3
Lenard
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Provide them with these links: http://www.linuxloop.com/news/2008/0...ur-windows-pc/

http://www.kaspersky.com/news?id=207575500

http://www.yoggie.com/
 
Old 01-08-2008, 11:09 AM   #4
pixellany
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Never try to teach a pig to sing---It wastes your time and annoys the pig.

There is absolutely no percentage in trying to convince entrenched Windows users to switch to Linux. You can certainly offer to show them, or offer to help, but proselytizing will get you nowhere. Imagine replying here to a Linux issue and telling the OP they should switch to Windows.

In that (long-winded) thread, the only thing that got anyone annoyed with you was that you persisted and tried to argue with them. As one person correctly observed, the OP asked for help with Windows and here you were preaching the Linux gospel.

Here's where to direct your energy (IMHO): Work for getting a US administration that will move agressively against monopolies, corporate greed, and the abuses of power for which large corporations have become famous. (In this vein, read "The World is Flat".). For example, Barack Obama was reported to have told an audience at Google that he supported OpenSource. I am not campaigning for Obama, but it was interesting to hear this kind of informed comment from a politician. With our current president, the more likely response would have been "What's an operating system?"...or perhaps: "What's Google?"
 
Old 01-08-2008, 11:56 AM   #5
SlowCoder
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pixellany View Post
With our current president, the more likely response would have been "What's an operating system?"...or perhaps: "What's Google?"
... And don't forget his incredulous laugh afterwards, as if he asks it as a joke.
 
Old 01-08-2008, 01:23 PM   #6
jgombos
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trickykid View Post
no reason to start a flame war over it and get our members involved as well. By getting a bunch of Linux advocates involved will just make us look like trolls to them..
Actually I have a meta-discussion (discussion about the discussion) going here:

http://forums.slickdeals.net/showthr...=693836&page=5

I figured that the linux community is tactful enough not to troll, so I didn't specifically request that no one troll. But you raise a good point, so I'll address that now: please don't go over there and troll for flames folks. I'd like to keep the debate a civil one. But I encourage folks to add balance to that thread.

Last edited by jgombos; 01-08-2008 at 01:37 PM.
 
Old 01-08-2008, 06:48 PM   #7
angryfirelord
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Viruses, spyware, malware, oh my! Ah yes, the bad memories are coming back...

But yeah, I agree with the other posters. If they're already rabbid linux haters for no reason, then it's not worth your effort. Trust me, I've done it before and all it does is get you frustrated. Let them come over to Linux when their Vista install deactivates for the third time or doesn't work with a certain driver.

If they're REALLY against using a Linux LiveCD, you may want to show them BartPE, which allows you to make a live Windows CD. I have no idea how good it is & I hold no responsibility if it causes problems.

http://www.nu2.nu/pebuilder/
 
Old 01-08-2008, 07:21 PM   #8
elliott678
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I do think a LiveCD would be a perfect thing to use while they are deciding how to fix it. Done that plenty of times, much better to have a computer running off a CD than using an infected system.

Can't convince the average user of this anyway. It is hard enough to convince them the best way to deal with an infection is to just wipe the system.
 
Old 01-08-2008, 07:55 PM   #9
SlowCoder
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Quote:
Originally Posted by angryfirelord View Post
But yeah, I agree with the other posters. If they're already rabbid linux haters for no reason, then it's not worth your effort. Trust me, I've done it before and all it does is get you frustrated. Let them come over to Linux when their Vista install deactivates for the third time or doesn't work with a certain driver.

If they're REALLY against using a Linux LiveCD, you may want to show them BartPE, which allows you to make a live Windows CD. I have no idea how good it is & I hold no responsibility if it causes problems.

http://www.nu2.nu/pebuilder/
I wouldn't say "for no reason". Just like we use Linux for our various reasons, and many of our community think MS is the plague ... conversely, some of them may have the same valid thoughts for Windows, and against Linux. Not everyone who prefers Windows is dumb.

But ... it's very obvious that FUD plays a big role in users not wanting to switch. I think the best times to bring Linux up are:
- When there's trouble in Windows, and you can easily fix it with Linux ... I.e. filesystem crash, and Linux LiveCD recovery tools save the data.
- When users are "finished" with Windows and are looking for an alternative.

It's also fun to quietly show off Beryl/Compiz at work when people are around, like when there's a small group in the room chatting. Someone usually notices the eye candy, and is instantly curious.

When users are happy and not having problems using their Windows computers is NOT the time to bring up Linux as an alternative, as they're happy lambs, and typically uninterested in switching.
 
Old 01-08-2008, 08:00 PM   #10
dv502
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I too, don't waste my time with linux bashers.

Remember that old saying, you can lead a horse to water, but you can't force him to drink. That's my approach to windows users.

Anyway, if they hate linux thats ok, because I hate windows just as much.

Last edited by dv502; 01-08-2008 at 08:02 PM.
 
Old 01-08-2008, 10:20 PM   #11
Hitboxx
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jgombos View Post
I tried to offer live linux CD as a temporary solution to a windows user who's down, and this hot headed group of windows fans are killing me! LOL.. check out this thread:

http://forums.slickdeals.net/showthr...d=320&t=701887

I could take them all on, really.. but not sure I have the energy for it. Help me out here, you linux adovocates! I'd hate to see a user mislead away from linux by peoples emotions, when linux could provide them with some immediate relief.
Wait you have 3000+ posts and yet you are considered a troll there? assuming I'm weighing quantity over quality here and even your posts are getting deleted? And you expect us to come there with our 0 post ids and talk about Linux.

Well we could but judging by that thread I can see that its a totally close minded and biased discussion and funny how they jump at even the mention of the word "Linux". TBH, don't bother, just forget about it, its not worth it and a waste of time. You want to talk Linux, come here and we'll gladly do.
 
Old 01-09-2008, 01:03 AM   #12
colinstu
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It is "Ganging up", not "Gaining up".
 
Old 01-09-2008, 10:36 AM   #13
Alien_Hominid
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The simple solution was to get IceSword if you really want to mess with rootkits.
 
Old 01-09-2008, 06:15 PM   #14
sundialsvcs
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You're generally wasting your time when you approach a user who's using one operating system (and dealing with a "dead box" crisis...) with a proposition that involves using a different operating-system that the user in question knows nothing about. That is not going to "solve his/her problem."

It would be like if my car is broken down on the side of the road, and a guy drives up and hands me a service-manual for my car and a box of parts and tools. What I want is "AAA."
{"AAA" = A roadside-assistance service company in the United States; free tow-trucks and etcetera.}
 
Old 01-09-2008, 09:37 PM   #15
jgombos
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pixellany View Post
Never try to teach a pig to sing---It wastes your time and annoys the pig.
I would not equate booting a live CD with teaching a pig to sing. I shipped a red hat 9 box to a non-technical guy in his late 60s/early 70s a few years ago. He was using a typewriter before that, and he figured out how to launch OOWriter, write short stories, and print them. I recently gave someone in his 50s who had never used a PC a dual booting Win2k/DSL linux box. He told me linux was easier to use. So I think linux is ready for the non-technical masses.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pixellany View Post
There is absolutely no percentage in trying to convince entrenched Windows users to switch to Linux.
Well the site is not windows-advocacy.com. It's merely a deal site, with all types of users, and a few loud fanatics among them. I had no reason to expect an attack on linux.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pixellany View Post
You can certainly offer to show them, or offer to help, but proselytizing will get you nowhere. Imagine replying here to a Linux issue and telling the OP they should switch to Windows.
Both OSs have their strengths (although not an equal number of strengths). But if someone here said they wanted to play Warcraft 3, for example, Windows might be their best option. I only wouldn't say anything because it would be pointing out the obvious to someone who knows. The difference in the analogy is that linux users likely know the capabilities of Windows already, but Windows-using masses have yet to discover that linux even exists. So there's merit to pointing linux out to Windows users when they're struggling with a problem for which linux can help.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pixellany View Post
In that (long-winded) thread, the only thing that got anyone annoyed with you was that you persisted and tried to argue with them. As one person correctly observed, the OP asked for help with Windows and here you were preaching the Linux gospel.
I wasn't saying install linux over windows (although sometimes I do); I was saying boot the live CD until you get your windows in order.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pixellany View Post
Here's where to direct your energy (IMHO): Work for getting a US administration that will move agressively against monopolies, corporate greed, and the abuses of power for which large corporations have become famous. (In this vein, read "The World is Flat".). For example, Barack Obama was reported to have told an audience at Google that he supported OpenSource. I am not campaigning for Obama, but it was interesting to hear this kind of informed comment from a politician. With our current president, the more likely response would have been "What's an operating system?"...or perhaps: "What's Google?"
I've always thought there should be lightweight prohibitions on spending taxes on closed source software. Taxes should support OSS, and the OSS written should be available to the public so they can see where the money went, and benefit further from it. But where to start?
 
  


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