Windows Related: Why Does Windows Always Grind to a Halt?
 

Apologies for the Windows thread, I'm a long term Linux user and I hate using Windows, unfortunately my work has adopted a piece of software that requires me to use Windows, so alas, I'm forced to use it on a bi-weekly basis.

With this in mind, I use the computer twice a week for the use of this rubbish new software work use and whilst I'm in Windows I use MS Office, Putty, Dropbox, Firefox with a few add-ons such as Adblock and a virus Scanner. Nothing else gets used or installed other than Windows updates.

My question is this: How come Windows will inevitably grind to a halt? The laptop is so much slower than it ever used to be. It's getting to the point where I can barely use it. A Startpage.com search shows that I can download hundreds of programs that will apparently fix it, but I don't get it. Is there anything that I can do that will produce good results in speeding the computer up?

When I run my Linux installation from a USB key it's lighting quick, so it's not the PC itself.

Thanks

They call it Window$ rot. Over time it gets slower, crappier, buggier until it finally becomes unusable. The only solution is a re-install ... preferably a Linux distro or BSD.

There is no other solution that works. I know that in the past I have used various crap cleaners and registry cleaners and antivirus, but it doesn't have much effect.

I heard some people use software that freezes Window$ so that its state refreshes with each reboot. Never tried, because you have to pay for the software.

You know the best FLOSS solution.

Unless your Windows PC has a virus or malware on it, you should study all about what makes Windows programs start, so you can stop those programs. There's a Startup folder that's been around since the Windows 3.x days, if not before then. There are multiple Run keys in the Windows Registry that serve a similar function, especially for Windows 9x-style programs. Just open regedit.exe, search for the "RunOnce" keys, and the "Run" key will be just before it. There are control panels to determine which NT-style services start, such as in the "Administrative Tools" section of the Control Panel folder in XP, and so on and so forth.

But you've provided no detail whatsoever, not even what version of Windows you use. So for quick guesses...

If that one program you're required to use depends on .NET, well, good luck. .NET can weigh down an otherwise clean and slick Windows system. That virus scanner can weigh down the PC quite a bit, too. Old advice that may still be true, maybe not: Just avoid Norton anything. You'll be rewarded sooner or later.

Then there's the matter of crappy video drivers, lack of RAM, Windows Update sometimes checking your PC so it can check for updates, background downloads, and so on...

It's all a mix of subsystems coming together, just like Linux is becoming, and for best results, you should study Windows just the same.

Remember one thing, though: On Windows, you get what you pay for. If you see something like "we'll solve all of your Windows speed problems for free," assume that it's a scam of some sort until proven otherwise.

It's best to install your Windows programs once, don't uninstall very often, and really leave it all alone. If at all possible, if you ever find yourself in a position to reinstall Windows, try to get as close to installing from a retail Windows disk as is possible. For every PC I have to install, I get the same argument: "Why do you want to reinstall Windows when it was installed at the factory, with all of this bonus software on it?" And when I reinstall Windows way down the road from the Windows installer, the results get the same reaction: "Wow! My computer wasn't this fast when it was new! What did you do?" Ugh.

I think this is key, right here. The only reason the Windows "servers" here at work continue to function as well as they do is because they do one thing, nothing changes, and nothing new gets installed. The workstations used by the sales, administration, and customer service folks... that's another story. Those things are horrible, slow disasters. I'm always having to remove malware and fix settings that somehow seem to change themselves. Very irritating.

No one really cares that Windows get slower. Consumer users think it is normal their computer gets slower over time and they need a new one.

Business users: recently I had a service call at someone who complained about long time needed for starting up. About 30 minutes or so. The case was that Windows was copying the user's profile from the server to the local machine. A few GB. The IT company of this customer said: "yeah, that is normal, computers get slower when they get older. You need to invest in new hardware". Most customers, totally ignorant accept this, and once new hardware is installed, the old profile is cleaned or removed and the new hardware is faster.

No IT company is complaining or feeling the urge to inform their customers, either business or consumer. Who is turning down their own turnover. And when there is no urgent need, who will remove those reasons for computers clogging their resources?

The customer is mine now :)

jlinkels

Apologies, I realise that my original post was more of a rant with lack of information than it was informative, but I'm genuinely not a computer guy, hence the user name. I'm a healthcare professional who cares for and looks after people, not computers. Thanks to the litigious nature we've adopted, we are being forced slowly but surely to be using more of these compulsory applications. They don't want to pay me over time for staying in work to get it done so I have to go home and get work done, hence the work laptop.

Anyway, some information to aid in any useful suggestions (I will certainly have a look to see what's being started!) I have a Lenovo B570, running Windows 7 Home Premium Service Pack 1, 64bit, $GB RAM, it's a Intel(R) Core(TM) i3-2330M CPU @ 2.20GHz 2.20GHZ. Not sure what else there is to say I'm afraid. I have no idea if I have a .NET.

I agree with the consensus that it's adding and removing things that causes problems. One reason for this is that every program installed adds some registry keys and searches the registry for those keys every time it runs. The registry is, in my opinion, one of the worst design decisions in windows -- making all programs rely upon a central database file for their operation meaning that a problem with one application can cause havoc with another (though, admittedly, it's generally not havoc just slowness).
Oddly the last place I worked a guy had a perfectly good Windows 7 laptop that was showing signs of slowing but not in a way I could pin down -- was almost as if the CPU was permanently throttled but it didn't look like it though it is hard to tell in Windows 7. I used to know Windows inside-out but I'm not up on the newer versions much and this had me puzzled.

It's almost certainly not the only factor, but are you defragmenting regularly enough?

I have never fragmented it, I thought modern file systems didn't require it? Does Windows not use EXT3 or EXT4?

No, Windows uses NTFS. You fragment it more each time you delete anything.

It think Win7 may be set to automatically defrag every few days or something? Certainly there is that option.

Not wanting to get too much into this but surely that is true of any file system unless it moves other files to fill the gaps?

I've just searched and discovered that along with how to do it. Freudian slip with "I've never fragmented it", I intended to say defragmented it. I will give that a go.

Window Smashing
 

Ahh...Widows...if you don't have a problem, it will make it for you!

There are many possible reasons why this is happening. I will need some OS specs for further information, but right now, here are a couple of tips:

Clean up useless files - http://www.piriform.com/ccleaner
Go here and download CCleaner free and run "Run CCleaner" once you open it. This will clear your cache from all internet sights and any other files that Windows does not need, ie - will slow it down. This is a great program, I recommend it highly. You may also click the registry tab - search for issues and fix all selected issues. No need to back up registry, but if you must... This will also speed up computer use exponentially.

Defragment files - http://www.piriform.com/defraggler
This is another tool form piriform - all piriform tools are very useful, inlcuding the recuva and seccy - recuva is the best one for recovering files, specy for system specs. Download the free defraggler and run it in windows. Click "run defraggler" to start this process. This will take usually 8 hours for a standard disk that has never been defragmented. DO NOT USE THIS if you are running on an SSD(solid state drive). This basically move your files on you HDD so that all files are together, not split apart into different parts of the HD. Windows defragmenter is weak, so I don't usually use it.

Remove Startup Programs - http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/s.../bb963902.aspx
This tool will allow you to remove certain program from starting. This is useful for start-up boosts. Remove any programs that you would like. A good way to tell if it is safe to remove is if it has a icon file associated with the task. If not, then its a system file. If you need help on this, let me know.

Remove Unused Programs - use CCleaner
One of the tags under CCleaner is other options. Here you have multiple windows. Use the program remover to...well...remove programs. :) any that you dont tend to use, just remove it...should speed system up... This is another place where HIDDEN virus and adware can be uninstalled. If you try the uninstaller, and it fails, go to the directory in C:/Program Files/ then remove the folder entirely. Then re-run CCleaner.

Be sensible
Do not have twenty windows open at the same time...its windows... Do not look up or download any keygens, almost all of those are malware.
Also, use a sensible antivirus (again...windows). Do NOT use Norton, it has been linked to many security issues. Use either Avast!, AVG, or Windows Defender. If you are willing to pay some money, you can use Kaspersky AV, which is the top of the top AV. Do NOT use multiple AV's this is what slows you pc down the most. Its possible you have Windows Defender and another AV already installed, remove one of them. They tend to scan each other at the same time, then they scan what the other is scanning, which is itself...just don't have two.
Use a task manager Run...taskmgr to see what is taking much CPU, that is #1 problem most of the time. Second, if you are running WVista or newer, open Resource Monitor and find what is using you HDD.

Hope This Helps! Let me know if you want more!


Zzzach...
Derek Pockrandt

That Windows gets slower over time is something that is mostly caused by three factors:

- The user. Many users, especially the consumer type, just can't withstand the offers for (allegedly) free Windows software you can see everywhere on the net. They install software without even knowing what it is for, just to test what it is and if it is useful for them. Often that software comes with other software offerings in the installer which has explicitly to be disabled (which also is even often not possible if you don't choose "advanced" or "expert" install options) if you don't want it. Many users just click the "Next" button at this point, installing software without even knowing that they do it. If they remove the software they initially wanted to install those other software is kept on the system, often with automatic start up routines registered to the system. To check that you can simply use the msconfig program, part of any Windows installation even back to Windows 98 (for some mysterious reason not Windows 2000), or you use the Autoruns program linked to by derekpock, which was originally developed by SysInternals, but bought by Microsoft.

- The lack of package management: Unlike on most Linux distributions, Windows lacks package management and with that automatic dependency resolution. That means that the installers and, more important, the uninstall routines mostly are written by the application developers and to be honest, many do a really bad job with that, leaving files on the system that often still are registered for automatic startup but don't work anymore as they should, slowing down startup and sometimes throwing error-messages all over the place. This could be avoided when Windows would use a package management system for all applications (with MSI they have at least some kind of package management, but no developer is forced to actually use it). The second thing, automatic dependency management, could avoid situations like described above, where a software is installed because the user didn't uncheck an option in the installer of a different software.

- The third problem is a mix of of the first two points: The user and the lack of package management. Most Windows users are consumers, which automatically promotes them to system administrators. The problem is that most consumer users don't want to be system administrators, in the sense that they don't see a reason to properly learn Windows administration. Even many experienced Unix/Linux administrators just refuse to learn something about that topic (often just because they believe that Windows is a toy OS). Proper package management would make it much easier for those people to at least avoid the most prevalent culprits, as you can see on distributions that are aimed to be consumer-friendly (I avoid the term user-friendly, if possible, since that is a very ambiguous term), like Ubuntu, Mint or openSuse. What you also see often on those consumer-friendly distros are users that are annoyed by the need to elevate their rights (using sudo or su) and want to run their systems as root all the time, a behavior that you also can see with Windows users (just do a web-search for "disable UAC"), caused by the lack of knowledge about system administration. On Windows that leads to literally thousands, if not millions, of malware infected systems, something that possibly may see in the future on consumer Linux systems, if Linux gets a larger marketshare (a situation that already is a problem on Android, for example).

On the other hand, if you see Windows systems that are managed by experienced Windows administrators you will notice that Windows can be as fast, secure and stable as a Linux system and that it doesn't get slower over time if it is properly maintained. Before I came to Linux I invested quite some time to learn how a Windows system works and how one can maintain it properly, and I can assure that my Windows system does not become slower over time. I usually have to re-install/recover a backup of any of my OSes only if a) I destroyed it (caused learning by doing/breaking or just acting without thinking), or b) I do major hardware changes.

It comes down to: If you want to or have to maintain a Windows system then learn how to do that properly, just as you would do (or have done) on Linux/Unix.

Sorry for the wall of text.

I have to agree here.
I'm currently rusty in Windows and a newbie in Linux and am just getting [hopefully] towards the stage I know my Linux system as well as I did my Windows system. My Windows boxes ran well because I knew every process that ran and why, meaning they ran well and problem free. I know that sounds like "I was so good" but I mean "I spent so much time.".

I think that the biggest Achilles Heel of the Windows system is ... (a) "the Registry" ... and, (b) "defining millions of people as password-free Administrator users."

This naturally lead to "the presumption of the necessity of 'anti-virus' (sic) software."

... which made multi-millionaires out of Peter Norton & Co, as millions of people "subscribed' to software that would detect (after the fact!) that someone had just stolen the race-horse out of the (unprotected ...) barn ... again.

People "simply accepted" that digital computers (which are, after all, "merely machines") can, somehow, "become infected" ...

Microsoft Corporation had no problem with this idea ... Symantec paid them very well ... as long as they felt that they could simply presume that :eek: "they were the only game in town." But, today, it's kinda painful to watch them stare in disbelief at Android and OS/X.

Hi,

I have antivirus, it's "Bitdefender" who provide the majority of of antivirus solutions to the organization that I work for. I have Windows Defender but it's "Turned off". I think I've disabled a load of things from automatically starting using Autoruns and have defragmented the hard drive.

I'm afraid I really don't know what other information I can give you guys to be able to help, so I'd really appreciate explicit instructions and requests. Derek, I'm not sure what OS specs you require, but will gladly advise.

I'll try state that this laptop really isn't for 'fun' or 'personal' use, I don't install software on it other than that which came preinstalled before it was given to me, and other software such as Adobe Reader which these days I consider essential. It is very possible I have inadvertently installed a load of Malware as I accidentally installed McAfee when updating Flash! Even the Adobe Reader updater asked if I wanted to install some 'toolbar'. I've become pretty reliant on aptitude for sorting my software issues. "I need piece of software to do X, 'sudo aptitude search X'. I also have a lot of trust in aptitude, after all, if I don't trust the Mint and Debian Developers, why am I using their software? Even Microsoft are desperate for me to install 'Bing Search', 'Bing Desktop', Internet Explorer and any other crap they can throw at me.

Specs
 

These tips that I gave you, especially the CCleaner, will speed up you system. If you could, the main specs I was looking for was the OS version, CPU type, CPU core number, RAM, HDD space, any those basic things. This will help solve the issue more directly. Also, when do you tend to notice the slow of the computer? Startup? While opening a specific program? If you could, open a task manager and have it on the processes page. Align the list to CPU usage. When you see it going slow, switch to that and see which program/process is using the most power. Also, do you notice if the HDD is being access during that time? Give some general facts and observations of the problem.


Zzzach...

Derek, thanks for the reply. I've run all the applications that you pointed me to and I think there is a marked improvement on start up, but the time that I really notice the slow down is when I'm browsing my documents with the file manager (I'm not sure what it's called, it only talks about Windows within the "About" screen.). If I open a folder with some of the articles that I'm currently studying at the moment, if I right click one of them to print, the title bar in the Window turns to "Not responding" and the arrow turns to a circle for a long time. It does eventually recover rather than outright crash.

Specs wise I have a Lenovo B570, running Windows 7 Home Premium Service Pack 1, 64bit, 4GB RAM, it's a Intel(R) Core(TM) i3-2330M CPU @ 2.20GHz 2.20GHZ with a 500GB non-solid state hard drive.

Behavior like this usually is caused by:
- a misbehaving software that hooked into the file manager (on Windows it is named Explorer), like Antivirus software or other software scanning files before you can access them
- a faulty harddisk

To rule out the second just use the disk manufacturer's diagnosis tool, if it doesn't come up with errors this most likely is a software error. In that case you may want to try to temporarily disable the antivirus software or other software that may be installed and accessing the files.

You could list all installed programs (with the 'install/remove programs' thing) and check which ones are needed and which ones are not. I'm pretty sure you will find a lot of crap that insidiously installed itself over time, and is probably running in the background. (Feel free to post the list here.)

Other things that may slow down your machine are automatic updates (which will install updates at the worst moments) and 'real-time AV protection' (which can just run every time you open a folder.)

Yes, I agree with the previous two posts. Your CPU looks acceptable. Just to be sure, you are accessing local files right? Not from internet servers or things like that? Windows can also freeze up depending on how many files are in said folder. If there are a lot, then try organizing into smaller folders. It does sound reasonable and quite true if you have malware on your computer. Honestly, BitDefender may help, but I'd try something more lightweight than that. BitDefender also can cause serious security issues if it is not configured correctly. Try talking with an administrator of the computers that you use. Mention to him switching to Avast! or AVG, and if your "company" or organization has the budget, Kaspersky is extremely powerful, especially for businesses. It is also rather lightweight. I will look into this problem more. Thanks for the specs!


Zzzach...

Sorry for double posting. Can you give me the list of the processes open using task manager when this problem occurs? Be sure to "show all processes" (you may need to be an admin for this tool). If you are unable to "show all processes", there is a program that allows for process handling without admin privileges.

V - irus
I - fected
S - pam
T - rojan
A - Adware

Only if you don't have a proper antivirus solution and refuse to install updates (a behavior I often have seen from users with pirated XP systems).
I use mainly Linux, nonetheless I get spammed, so the OS seems to be irrelevant.
Both problems caused by uninformed users and OS agnostic.

Use the CCleaner, I've used it for years, best out there. Forget about the Piriform Defraggler, it's good, but MyDefrag is much better.

Never have I ran "Anti-Virus" on MY Windows computers (work computer and my wife's computers are a different story and that's a soapbox for another day), I run SpyBot S&D with Tea Timer (prevents registry edits without approval, I even disabled the Live Scan on the Symmantic at workSymmanticic was attacked twice with a Trojan specific foSymmanticic), I told IT, they were fine with that, but wanted me to leave it installed, so I use SpyBot at work now.

On my Windows 7 work computer I searched "Speed up Windows 7" and turned off a bunch of the useless bells and whistles.

Drop the Firefox (at least for now) and run IE 9 or 10 it is faster on Windows 7 in my experience and doesn't need add-on for ad block.

The Windows Explorer issue have the Task Manager (Ctrl+Alt+Del, Task Manager or RighTask bar Taskbar, Task Manager open and see which processes are using the most memory (you can usuallyInternetinternet search to find what programs the processes are used by.

My guess is your "Anti-Virus" trying to run a live scan, but could be some other software.

Might want to see if you can remove any of the preinstalled Crapware that Lenovo and others bog the OS with, go through the list of installed software in CCleaner and remove anything you don't use.

Running Linux on a USB is running in RAM, so might still be a HDD problem.

See also Explorer Slow on Windows 7 and try those suggestions on Indexing.

I don't use windows anymore. But I remember when I used to it slow down to a crawl. The culprit was I had two antivirus programs and one malware program running. These programs are memory hogs and I did improve the system speed a bit by uninstalling one of them. Anyway, that was then...

1. MyDefrag, I have not tried. But I have found no problems with Defraggler.
2. IE is faster, but is extremely slow compared to Google Chrome.
3. Yes, remove the crapware from OEM installations.
4. HDD is the #2 problem for slow computers, weak CPU's are #1.