will the future of Linux lies with KDE DE
 

It seems all are kde users and Linus himself is admitting he uses KDE...so is that like GNOME users are going to be alienated for using GNOME?
We,GNOME users,do we have to leave GNU/Linux if we dont use KDE(we dont want to move to kde even @ cost of death)
what will be the future of XFCE?if XFCE also rises to the level of popularity near KDE,do XFCE ppl also need to leave using Linux?please Linux users is it right?
I have my BP climbing max after reading a pdf mag called tuxmagazine and its public bashing of GNOME project...why?
why Slackware purposely removed GNOME from its distro for kde?i know alternate GNOME offerings are there.

Is it good for Linux OS to eliminate GNOME,XFCE and other GTK2 based DEs and stick only on qt/kde...many are saying open source is about choices...but i find my choice GNOME is the favourite for bashing out...by kde fanboys.
what should we,GNOME users need to do?do we shift ourself to any pro-GNOME OS if any.for me,i am trying freebsd,opensolaris...any way to nirvana?

One more:Is KDE the next borg as is the microsoft..:confused: :confused: :cry: :cry: :cry:

Not sure what you think is going on here? Are you accusing KDE of attempting to create a monopoly??

KDE is popular, as is Gnome. KDE teams and Gnome teams collaborate on occasion. Linux is now and always has been about choice. Use Gnome, KDE, XFCE or whatever.

but you cant ignore the gnome bashing we found on the net...whether it is purposely or not..let the thread lives..
just do a search on google for GNOME bashing
http://www.google.co.in/search?q=GNO...ient=firefox-a

tux magazine and kde fanboyism
http://www.tuxmagazine.com/node/1000255

KDE is the best DE around. But I can't see gnome going away any time soon.

Well there will always be a debate, but honestly i don't think any one DE will take over Linux. Like Ray said its about choices. Nevermind the bashing or fanboyism, at the end of the day what matters is, how comfortable you are, in whatever you use.

I use Gnome and love it, give me Gnome anyday over KDE, frankly i don't even touch a KDE only distro. Oops, am i fanboying?? But sadly i have to admit, the pace of development in KDE is much faster than Gnome.

KDE Bashing: http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=KDE...ient=firefox-a

Linux has a long history of fanboisms, flame wars, etc etc - GNU/Linux vs Linux, Vi vs Emacs, KDE vs Gnome and so on. Just because we, as users, argue a lot (the joy of hanging out with nerds, I'm afraid) does not mean that in the end there will be an overall victor. Or that that is anyone's aim.

Just sit back and enjoy the array of choices available to you.

Exactly. There will never be common consent, because people are all different - and thanks God they are. Imagine world where all people would be identical - what a nightmare! "Common consent" can be only imposed by brute force, like in totalitarian empires or huge monopolies. The strength of Open Source Sofware is particularly based on real choice and therefore by exploring and developing different systems all over wide spectrum suitable for different people. That's similar how Mother Nature works, all possibilities get their opportunity to try and (maybe) succeed.

In short - use what you like, tell others about advantages of what you use, help to develop what you like, BUT don't try to impose (or force) "single best" mandatory solution suitable for all. That doesn't work and never will.

And the flame wars, the ultimate spectator sport. :D

This is probably overflow from slashdot article this morning. Already 337 comments over there and it's barely after 9AM EST. :o
I like Linus' style. :D My personal opinion: KDE is (or has become) a fat bloated pig designed to make me waste half my life staring at a spinning hourglass. :o

As with security, more is not always better. You have to strike a balance. I'm sure there a very good and sound benefits to everything the KDE developers have implemented. I'm just not so sure they think in terms of (my) time being money. In short and IMVHO: Any new feature that negatively affects performance has a cost that needs to be weighed against the benefit before that feature is implemented. If the cost is too great and the benefit too small, I can live without it. ;)

You can't just say kdefanboys always bash GNOME, there are also many cases where KDE is bashed (you can't deny it), especially these recent years with Ubuntu growing really fast. The rule is simple, if you see trolls, don't feed them (and don't become another troll). We will always see flamewars (sometimes quite fun to watch that ;) ), as in Vi vs Emacs, KDE vs GNOME, *ehm* Windows vs Linux, Ubuntu vs any other distros (I've nothing against Ubuntu, just sometimes the fanboys are just irritating). And IIRC, the reason why Patrick Volkerding decided to remove GNOME from Slackware official (you can still get GNOME from dropline) was because packaging GNOME requires a lot of time (I also had experience compiling GTK+ and GNOME from scratch, which was quite painful and headache).

Even those KDE developers and GNOME developers are not hating each other, so why you always try to bring this problem (I've seen many posts of you in LQ awards forum). So I suggest that you keep calm and enjoy GNOME or whatever DE you like, I believe that none of the DEs will take over Linux (or BSD).

I think that the most important thing is...

Use what you want to use. It doesn't really matter what anyone else thinks (even Linus, for that matter). :D

In the 7+ years that I have used Linux and been a member of the opensource community, I have noticed that its mainly users who get fanatical about stuff. KDE and GNOME developers collaborate on a lot of things and generally get along. One thing you should note is that developers whether working on the same project or not, can be very passionate about things and engage in debates that may seem like fighting when observed by outsiders. When Linus criticises GNOME because he thinks there are things they could do better, don't think that he hates GNOME, he is just a software developer pointing out what he thinks about the software and the developer community built around it. Linus is someone who isn't afraid to say things and if it annoys someone else then tough (take a look at some of his posts on the kernel mailing list). The good thing I like about Linus (even though I don't always share his points of view) is that he can back up his arguements either with code or concrete explanations.

GNOME is not going anywhere anytime soon and the same applies to KDE so stop worrying about their future and don't get sucked into pointless flamewars.

Ubuntu default desktop: GNOME; Fedora Core default desktop: GNOME.

In any case, wm2 is going to take over soon, just wait and see.

Yes but i would think that the wise money is on enlightenment. It has all the looks,with none of the bloat.

In my experience, the people who become "flameboys" about things, like the coders who identify themselves with a particular language and extol its virtues while defending it against all critics, haven't used enough tools yet. Having written code professionally in about 20 languages so far, and eight operating systems, I don't think I could feel any alliegance for any of them.

Linux gives you a choice. It's not like "that other OS" which gives you exactly one poorly-implemented choice (then spends six years and six billion dollars changing the look of it a wee bit and calls it "a wonderful new release" :D ). But nonetheless, eventually you will choose, and that will wind up being the environment that you use most of the time.

On my systems, I use several different accounts, one for each purpose. (It's like having several offices with individual locks on each one, with the appropriate filing-cabinets locked inside.) So, "just for sh*ts an giggles" you know, I use a different desktop environment on each one. Keeps me from thinking that my Linux machine can only do one thing. In fact it makes it feel like an entirely different system, and that can be great for creativity.

This is so laughable. Deepclutch is the biggest hypocrite I've come across on these boards. Quite guilty himself of exactly that which he rails against. Talk about not feeding trolls...

I have used *nix since early 80's, before X, much less any gui or DE's even existed. During the years I have used all the major gui/DE's from early on, alpha/beta KDE and Gnome, etc. CDE on commercial offerings (very nice for it's day, btw). I've spent years using Gnome. Years using KDE. I don't like either anymore and presently opt for Xfce. Hence I am definitely not a KDE fanboy. With this in mind, I concur entirely with Linus. He is EXACTLY correct. Havoc Pennington and his sycophants were the worst thing to happen to Gnome. Their thinly veiled objective is to create a dumbed down stripped DE that can be targeted to corporate desktop market. Their premise being that 90% of computer users are average non tech types. Well, that may be in the MS world, but not the *nix world. The average *nix user is typically a pretty smart cookie. We want power. We want choice. We want all the knobs to be easily available. We understand that if we shoot ourselves in the foot then it is our own fault and problem, not the OS, DE, etc. And here we have precisely the reason why people with deep experience in *nix have left Gnome. Because the HIG Nazis have made it just plain suck.

Popularity isn't everything. Quality software can be written without massive community support: that's how Linux got started. But even still, I don't see any indication that distributions are moving towards eliminating either GNOME or KDE. If anything, there's evidence to the contrary (a growing ecosystem) due to the growing popularity and capability of XFCE. And look at the Ubuntu family, where you essentially have the same operating system, but with the choice of GNOME (Ubuntu), KDE (Kubuntu), or XFCE (Xubuntu). No lack of choice there.

And we should actively work to turn newbies into "*nix users" rather than make it easy for them to continue being newbies or worse, degrade into noobs who actively avoid knowladge of "computer stuff".

You wouldn't let people drive a car without knowing, not only how the stearing wheel and pedels works, but the basic physics behind a car. You really shouldn't let people run a dual-core 1gig ram potentual spam bot without the knowing how to run a computer.

Corporations do not want end users to have this kind of power. They want stuff locked down. Basically kiosk mode.

like i've been saying for years to use a computer you have to remember it is one.

Yep. That's why you have your home computer(s) to make experiments with and choose what do you like better :)

kiosk mode works on people with good computer skills anyway. And I'd sooner have no noobs running spam servers that worry about what corporations want.

*sigh* yet another one of these threads....

I think I see things leaning towards KDE too. Basically , they're both great pieces of software and you're good with either one. KDE can do what gnome can and vice versa.
But it seems KDE is more aligned with what linux users want, somehow. In presentation, and philosophy.

Plus lets not forget Amarok. :)

Variety is the spice of life (as they say, whoever THEY are). I use both - KDE on Slackware, Gnome on Ubuntu - and like both of them, Xfce too. I'm beginning to think I must be the most easily satisfied person on these forums. Don't "hate" this, don't "hate" that.

There is nothing wrong with making things easier for others. KDE seems to do a good job in making things easier e.g. mounting usb drives automatically. By forcing a migration to "*nix users" is not helpfull, by configureing linux (wether make it more easy to use or graphical or other) in such a way that people are comming by their own choice is something to be proud of and not degrading.

Only reason people like either one really is they come pre-installed on the distro or in a package. If you ever had to compile gnome or KDE from scratch you would dislike either one such as I do. Gnome needs help from dependency hell. We need to move more of the files that have no other use into a single lib or set of libs rather then the nasty smathering of libs we have now. An example is the ablity to burn a disk from the file manager ?? Even if i dont want to do this i still have to compile the stupid lib as its required for the file manager.

Don't fret gnome because my KDE bashing is about to begin here. KDE yes its nice when it wants to compile correctly. Even with the good documentation of KDE with BLFS KDE still rains in my pice of shit bin . QT is horrid and takes forever to compile. I remeber my days spending 2 hours compiling qt just to find out in the end that it errors out.. YAY another 2 hours to see if i fixed the issue or not. I have yet to get mysqul to be able to get compiled into qt correctly as it just errors to no end. Maybe this is fixed now and yes it compiles faster on newer hardware. And after all that KDE still failes to compile correctly sometimes and sometimes it does but everything is missing or doesn't work. At least Gnome worked the first time around when I compiled it last but KDE was elusive to be able to get compiled correctly. This might have some issues to do with the instructions that blfs has and the newer versions of kde avalible im not sure.

My point is that there are other window managers around and I still see fluxbox and icewm and xfce (I used xfce for a long time but there current version with Dbus integration made me leave) being used extensivly. The main distros stay to kde and gnome because they are easy to use and windows users are comfortable in that environment. as for me im staying in icewm for the moment and maybe even window maker not sure yet. Alot of Gnome and KDE is just fluff for me anyway as i change my settings via the text files in the system. Then again I am kinda special as I made my system from the ground up and its customised for me.

Funny, a couple of weeks ago I read an article asking if Ubuntu wasn't giving KDE the cold shoulder and preferring Gnome!

I lean towards KDE, but I certainly wouldn't want Gnome to disappear. To me linux means choice - MY choice of what I want to use, rather than being forced into a "choice of one" by the morally and legally doubtful commercial attempts at monopolizing a market of certain software producers.
So, I believe we need to keep as much choice as possible - each "competitor" keeping the others honest, each inspiring the others often, collaborating actively on occasion. My thanks to them all for giving ME the choice

let everyone use the DE,what they are comfortable with ;)
 

I started this thread after getting a huge dose of
anti-gnome dialogues both from internet and personally too.
it seems i can go happy with my GNOME DE.what i understand is you should never try a pro-kde or any such flamming articles/comments.you can live for another couple of years! that is.:D

after converted from Windows and you selected your preffered desktop environment-the war starts literally-
which DE one is the best?
A:whatever you are comfortable with
Q:but tuxmagazine is compelling us to move to kde?!
A:there is a few kde zealots there!leave there comments!they are best at their jobs.leave it.believe it or not,GNOME users dont deserve this bashing from kde.let GNOME and GTK2 growing!Linus had directly attacked a community project
which is as u know is a flagship project of GNU
GNOME-I love it.please let me use and to live.:cry:

http://www.gnu.org/press/gnome-1.0.html

Deepclutch, I think you are getting too religious about this whole KDE vs GNOME thing (from what I have seen in this and other threads). Tux Magazine is free to promote KDE if it wishes, its their choice, just like it is your choice to use GNOME (and promote it if you like). Its not just KDE users who bash GNOME, GNOME users are also notorious for bashing KDE. This has been going on for years and guess what, its just a waste of precious time because it does not achieve anything. If you like GNOME, then there is nothing wrong with that, keep using it and quit the zealotry.

form follows function
 

I think that there is a market for many distros, whether Linux is being used on a cash register or calculator, or if you want your computer to be a show-off machine with lots of eye candy. Some people just want to get things done and move on.

My own preference has been KDE, and I would really like to encourage more Windows users to take the plunge. KDE looks and acts a lot like Windows and might be easier for a newbie to learn.

Depending on the user I'm recommending it for, I might choose ubuntu or Kubuntu - some people might have an easier time with the simplicity of Gnome. Some people might have a machine that has a hard time running lots of background apps.

Bottom line: there's a Linux for everybody and for every use.

Here's to those of us still capable of rolling our own :) Even still, the integration offered by a DE is nice. I hear you on the Xfce and DBUS issue. Concerns me as well. But at least it is a Freedesktop.org "standard". Another thing that concerns me, even more actually, about Xfce is that the HIG virus will spoil it.

UHm.. I don't think so. Shuttleworth recently said that if he had it to do over again he would have bundled KDE right from the start. Don't recall the article but it was a direct quote from the man himself. Can only find this at the moment:

"When Mark originally chose Gnome one of the primary driving factors was the 6-month release schedule (which *Ubuntu syncs with). He actually switched to using KDE/Kubuntu on his own machines two releases ago. So no worries for KDE users, "sabdfl" is one of you."

Shudder yea. Only issue I have with DBUS is that you can accomplish things without using it. Plus its another running daemon on my system that I wont use or have any need for. If they bundled it with xorg then I would not complain about it but the way it is currently is just stupid in my opinion. The last time I looked on freedesktop.org I think i found a grand total of 10 apps that make use of it... I dont see the benefits outweighing the security risk of a running daemon all the time thats used only in the X server .

EDIT: Reading a bit about D-BUS online concerns me regarding it sharing events with user and kernel land this sounds a bit too windowsey to me and sounds like a good exploit for a virus or spyware