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Old 06-03-2003, 12:07 PM   #16
Mega Man X
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You know, once we are talking about OS, I'm quite curious about one thing... I've used a Mac at Uni a long ago (yeah, Mac is nasty). Which OS is a bigger treat to M$? Linux or MacOS. Please, don't flame me . I have no idea how the market for Mac is, but at least in Sweden, is way easier to find Mac games (way tooooo expensive) then Linux games at stores + Everyone at the TV (Buffy, Mel Gibson...gheheh) always has to use a portable Apple one...
I'm really curious
 
Old 06-03-2003, 12:39 PM   #17
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Short answer: Because it has already been done. It's called Windows! If someone wanted to use windows, they have that choice. Why on Earth would anyone want Linux to degrade to Windows level? Lindows is a shameful POS...IMHO
 
Old 06-03-2003, 12:54 PM   #18
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Why should linux change from a logical file system setup to such a random-seeming one as Windows uses?

Try putting 4 primary partitions each on two hard drives and try to predict what is c, d, e, f, g, h, i and j and which one is on which physical drive.

Now do the same in Linux.

See the difference?
 
Old 06-03-2003, 01:29 PM   #19
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I have to agree with gbbenson up there, I think a LOT of Windows' current appeal is the "Duh" factor. Its hypnotic the way they fool you. You don't have to think...they make the choices FOR you and you live with them all in the pursuit of the quick and lazy.

The problem is that while it may be easy...when stuff goes wrong in windows you're SOL.

With Linux, what shocks a LOT of windows users and eventually chases off a few is that you HAVE to learn what's going on (ow! ow! ow! my brain! It's working! ow!). You HAVE to use your head and here's the best and scariest part:

You have to make CHOICES.

Its all about the freedom baby! You get to choose what you want to run, how you want to run it and how it works for you!

When you're in windows, you don't choose, M$ does, you don't think because M$ does it for you...just fork over your cash and pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.

Arun79, the thing is, you have choices, there's no need to copy windows because the people who chose linux have already realized that windows is not the way to go for them. When you learn more (I apologize here, I'm making an assumption that you are still learning about linux) you'll see that linux is laid out quite logically and it makes sense...its not easy...but it makes sense. Its not perfect, but it does the job better...(in my opinion anyway).
 
Old 06-03-2003, 02:16 PM   #20
nuadastorm
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This thread is most interesting... However the thing I like most is that everyone here is using the same arguments that were used ten years ago in the Microsoft and Apple debates over which OS was best.

Heck, many of them are almost word of word. What I don't understand is how people get so hateful over something they have nothing to do with. If you are using Linux, who cares what is happening in Windows Development, any innovations will get duplicated soon enough and the same goes for any Linux innovations or MacOS innovations. It all comes down to personal choice and there will be no way to sway those opinions. They may change over time but arguing over them won't help anyone get anything done.
 
Old 06-03-2003, 02:20 PM   #21
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Well for one Lindows is gettting sued over the name by microsoft according to time
 
Old 06-03-2003, 02:34 PM   #22
tcaptain
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Quote:
Originally posted by nuadastorm
This thread is most interesting... However the thing I like most is that everyone here is using the same arguments that were used ten years ago in the Microsoft and Apple debates over which OS was best.
Hehe, that's true, I remember using those arguments myself I didn't like Macs much back then. But back then, M$ wasn't into the ultimate power grab that they are now.

Quote:
What I don't understand is how people get so hateful over something they have nothing to do with. If you are using Linux, who cares what is happening in Windows Development
Well for one, a LOT of linux users are using linux because they object to Microsoft business/political practices. If you just ignore what they do while you let their marketting/lobbying machine steamroll, you'll find that linux will eventually either be outlawed or irrelevant. Thankfully, that is not happening and linux use is spreading
 
Old 06-03-2003, 02:40 PM   #23
the )2ipper
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Post M$ vs Linux

ok... the whole deal is... well as some may come to find out... im 15... and i have always been brought up with M$ soo thats why it comes so easy.. when you are brought up with a OS you natrually want to stick with it... and im learning linux because ive heard about its power and superiority... but i have to say.. it is confusing at first being used to the whole C: and D: stuff .... but i have to say that linux offers alot more for a lot less $$$$$ thats all i have to say =)
 
Old 06-03-2003, 02:56 PM   #24
nuadastorm
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Quote:
Originally posted by darin3200
Well for one Lindows is gettting sued over the name by microsoft according to time
Personally, with the plethora of words that make up the various languages in this world, you think they could have come up with something more distinctive. They wanted to play off the Windows name and that is diluting trademark and they should be sued. But a bad decision on the part of one distributor really doesn't have anything to do with the overall OS situation right now.

Heck, Lycoris is a much better distribution than Lindows. It has a better Interface and it is run by ex-Microsoft employees. They aren't getting sued.
 
Old 06-03-2003, 03:00 PM   #25
tcaptain
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Re: M$ vs Linux

Quote:
Originally posted by the )2ipper
and i have always been brought up with M$ soo thats why it comes so easy.. when you are brought up with a OS you natrually want to stick with it... and im learning linux because ive heard about its power and superiority... but i have to say.. it is confusing at first being used to the whole C: and D: stuff .... but i have to say that linux offers alot more for a lot less $$$$$ thats all i have to say =)
Think about it tho...remember when you were learning M$ at first? You did have to learn it. Linux is no different. I remember learning DOS and .bat files, then Windows 3.1, then 95 and 98...

I don't think linux is any HARDER to learn...but it is something ELSE to learn.
 
Old 06-03-2003, 03:33 PM   #26
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That is an important point. When dealing with linux, I often think "hell, what do I do? This is really unintuitive". I think why can't it be like windows and I know what i'm doing? However, I had to learn DOS/Windows commands, and like-wise I have to learn linux commands.

On a more serious note, unless a linux distro (haven't tried lindows or lycoris btw) can completely remove the command-line from the front-end of the OS, then it is NEVER going to be the No.1 OS. Frankly, haven't we moved on from tabbing commands at a screen in monocrome?

I know the UNIX command-line base has many, powerful, benefits, but for most users, that will never be needed.

I have more thoughts, but have to go................
 
Old 06-03-2003, 03:51 PM   #27
Mega Man X
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But... in newer distros, you not really have to use the command line much, if at all. Nautilus replaces Windows Explorer, all printing tools, network configurations and packages installations can be done with graphical tool, even to unpack from tar/bz has graphical toolz. There's the compiling stuff, that's true, but you not really have to use it. There're rpm's for newbies which also has graphical tools for installing. Apt-get with synaptic and similar as Gentoo's emerge and others is something that windows is thousands of years behind... nothing can be easier then synaptic...

To finish, I really think Linux is already the number one. Perhaps not the most used, but definitely the number one and growing in all the areas. In fact, it's not the number one yet in Gaming... But it's coming right with Nvidia and ID Software giving some small pushes to it. The problem is that, M$ has thrown to much shite into the market as Visual Basic, which sucks and DirectX for games (I've playing with that for years now, it's the most bad designed thing ever) and companies are set with it...

Also, many things with windows ask also for command line... like, what version of Dll's for DirectX have you installed? if you don't run console and type dxdiag you won't know... And many other things too as msconfig to define start up programs and etc...
But many Windows users don't use it... because they like clicking and clicking the most ...

Sorry for the spelling...
 
Old 06-03-2003, 04:49 PM   #28
bentman78
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Quote:
Originally posted by tcaptain
I have to agree with gbbenson up there, I think a LOT of Windows' current appeal is the "Duh" factor. Its hypnotic the way they fool you. You don't have to think...they make the choices FOR you and you live with them all in the pursuit of the quick and lazy.

The problem is that while it may be easy...when stuff goes wrong in windows you're SOL.

With Linux, what shocks a LOT of windows users and eventually chases off a few is that you HAVE to learn what's going on (ow! ow! ow! my brain! It's working! ow!). You HAVE to use your head and here's the best and scariest part:

You have to make CHOICES.

Its all about the freedom baby! You get to choose what you want to run, how you want to run it and how it works for you!

When you're in windows, you don't choose, M$ does, you don't think because M$ does it for you...just fork over your cash and pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.

Arun79, the thing is, you have choices, there's no need to copy windows because the people who chose linux have already realized that windows is not the way to go for them. When you learn more (I apologize here, I'm making an assumption that you are still learning about linux) you'll see that linux is laid out quite logically and it makes sense...its not easy...but it makes sense. Its not perfect, but it does the job better...(in my opinion anyway).
Of course people like the duh factor. People want to site at home, surf the internet, read e-mail and play games. Maybe the curious ones want to download a firewall or something for thier PC. Who wants to sit there and mess with config files all night. People just want to install the software.

Look at it from the end-users perspective. I personally think Linux is more stable, quicker, and all around more secure (at least now, there has been at least a 65% increase in Linux virus writers here int he US the past year).

I have both at home, and two different computers. It depends what I am trying to do. I think Linux displays gifs and jpgs better. However when I want to blow up Nazi's in Medal of Honor, I obviuosly use windows. When I install comething, I just want to run a .exe and be done with it. That's most peoples mentality.

In the work enviornment, I think Linux is great for web/database/firewall work (altough BSD for firewalls is my first choice). however AD and Exchange are top notch, and will only improve come Windows 2005. Even the changes in 2003 are significant to 2000 as far as enterprise standards are concerned. AD is an awesome powerful tool. It has problems ( the database can't get bigger the 2 gigs), however it will be fixed when it will be run on a SQL platform (2005).


Each has their place. I like both. But please consider both ends. Microsoft is a big faceless and facist organization somtimes. But they can produce good products. And it can be cheap if you know the system (and I am not talking about pirating)
 
Old 06-03-2003, 04:56 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally posted by arun79
]Let me word the question better for your convenience kater, "Why was Unix used as the reference for Open Source Development and not DOS???"
Because Unix was there 15 years before DOS
and we had an open software community before
Gates stopped crapping his nappies?

Of course it seems a logical step to hop out
of your four-wheel drive and start building
additions to a three-wheeled pushbike, like
a fox-tail on a stick ...

/me shakes his head in bewilderment...

Cheers,
Tink
 
Old 06-03-2003, 05:00 PM   #30
Anacific
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I, personally, think that Windows XP and OS X are the best operating systems for the home user and they won't be replaced by linux any time soon. Why? Because most people want to spend their time using the software provided, not configure it.

Those who aren't programmers are not interested in spending time checking out what's under the hood. Maybe you do but I think that sofware should be intelligent enough to configure itself for a particular system. Linux certainly lacks this "intelligence". Obviously Windows isn't as customizable but I think it's something people agree to live with... home users, that is, not caffeine-filled programmers.

Now, I'm not saying that linux is bad, it's just not for most people out there. Linux is a server OS, Windows is a Desktop OS. There shouldn't be any conflict.

Those who claim that you can have all the freedom you want should start using Assembly instead of C++ and Qt classes because, obviously, those classes do SOOO much for you and you don't have to know HOW they do certain things to be able to use them.

Freedom is great for as long as you have a choice to let OS make its own decisions. (Oh no, the war of the machines is near!)
 
  


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