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Old 08-11-2003, 07:05 AM   #256
kev82
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Registered: Apr 2003
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i agree that you cant do everything yourself but at least you had the understanding to know if the gas man was talking rubbish or not.

there is a car roadside service company here in the uk called RAC, you know, the people you call if your car doesnt start or if you're stuck on the road, there was a documentary on this company a few months ago showing how they replace batteries that didnt need replacing to get more money.

i dont think people should know how to replace a carburetta, but i do think that people should have enough basic understanding of things they use to know when something dodgy's going on. this should apply to a computer as much as it applies to anything else.
 
Old 08-21-2003, 12:55 AM   #257
jokerdude
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Registered: Aug 2003
Location: Atlanta, GA
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Quote:
Originally posted by mattman
*claps*

personally, i think that its the elitist attitude that keeps linux from growing as fast as it should. i mean, yeah, installing rpms is quite intuitive for me, i could do it in my sleep. to someone who has grown up with setup.exe, it isnt. they dont even know where to start. and we forget that. all the time.

we should be accessible teachers, not gurus sitting on the lofty mountain tops contemplating the state of the universe. RTFM doesnt help a person in the least if the have no idea what M they have to FR. any time that is the sole answer given, that is another potential loss to the linux community.
I was one of those people a few years ago... I was just trying to get a simple dial up connection to work, read through all the man pages and the 800 page bible that came with my cd's... I asked a few people and tried to read some of the forums, but the only answer I ever got in return was RTFM...

My first computer was a TRS-80 that you had to program even to be able to use it, so I knew a bit at the time about how a computer works... (And before you people start calling me old, I'm only 25.)

I got so frustrated with the setup and the community that I installed windoze again. It was only after hearing of Mandrake that I became interested again. (I still know very little except for how to use basic shell commands, pine and aliases.... So for all of you who are chomping at the bit, please, no flaming!)

 
Old 08-21-2003, 01:48 AM   #258
jokerdude
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Quote:
Originally posted by invictus


<snip>
It's not about requiring brains, people. It's about forcing users to undertake major yak-shaving quests to achieve the most trivial things.
</snip>

lol
 
Old 08-21-2003, 11:41 AM   #259
Abe_the_Man
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Location: Oshawa, Ontario, Canada
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Nice post jokerdude. I agree totally. It wasn't untill i found this site that i began to really like linux. Any other forums that i went to i'd get obscure condescending answers. Like when i was having problems installing an rpm the only reply i got was 'sometimes you gotta use force'. I eventually yahooed around untill i found out what that was and haven't had a problem since. I'd have to say that the Linux community isn't entirely elitist however. This site and a few sites like it are totally noob friendly. I've never been flamed even once.
 
Old 08-21-2003, 03:07 PM   #260
jokerdude
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Quote:
Originally posted by Abe_the_Man
I eventually yahooed around untill i found out what that was and haven't had a problem since.
eww.. yahoo.... *shudder*
 
Old 08-21-2003, 04:58 PM   #261
ricdave
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<<For example, my father-in-law is exceptionally pissed off about Microshaft. But he is by no means prepared to learn Linux. Its not that he wants to refrain from learning something new....its that Linux is simply NOT for someone who has no clue what programming and computer logic is all about. He doesnt use his computer for the sake of using it...he uses it to DO stuff...he is 56 years old and just doesnt have the time to be arseing about with it.>>

I have read good reviews on Elx Linux. Supposed to be near zero learning curve for windows users.
 
Old 08-21-2003, 10:53 PM   #262
BajaNick
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WTF? 5000 views? lol
 
Old 08-23-2003, 03:07 AM   #263
Robert0380
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Registered: Apr 2002
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seeing this thread still here on the 1st page reminds me of a line from an Austin Powers movie....

WHY WONT YOU DIE!!!!!!
 
Old 09-01-2003, 01:29 AM   #264
Dan46628
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What Linux lacks is the support of the hardware manufacturers.. if every piece of hardware came with a linux driver for it, this system would be a piece of cake to configure, and you can't beat the price tag..
 
Old 09-01-2003, 11:07 AM   #265
ricdave
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<<What Linux lacks is the support of the hardware manufacturers.. if every piece of hardware came with a linux driver for it, this system would be a piece of cake to configure, and you can't beat the price tag..>>

Unless you have a very strange or a very new piece of hardware, it should be no problem. If it is, install anyway. Someone will have a driver for it in a couple of days---a week or two at most. The fact is, vendor installed linux is almost a no brainer with KDE. looks and acts like windows. And if you stick to the vendors selection of software - click n go w/lindows or something similar w/lycoris, elx, etc., there should be no install issues with addon software. Plenty good for most home users since most use it for web browsing, e-mail, and writing the occaisional letter and maintaining a recipe file or music list. The SOHO user can find direct replacements for most of the proprietal software that they use, and for the odd app that there is no replacement for it is easy to maintain a partition or hdd for windows. Linux is coming into its own, and the market share for desktop users is growing faster than ever. Do I think that Linux will challenge MS for supremacy on the desktop? Maybe, but its going to take years for it to happen, and the various flavors of Linux are going to have to adopt standards so that developers have one API set to worry about, one iteration which will install on any distro.

Just my 2 1/2cents worth.
 
Old 09-02-2003, 03:01 PM   #266
Megamieuwsel
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To the "RTFM-crowd":
Computers are intended to automate processes.
Period.

To the Windows-crowd : This should be done flawlessly.
PERIOD.

Neither Linux , nor Windows have , or ever will have , these two points incorporated completely.
The ideal OS , given the currently available technology , should not even be dependent on keyboard and/or mouse for the input of data.
Microphone and camera(optional) should be the way.

As I see it , not a single OS , that's on the market these days has the required underlying infrastructure to acomplish that.
And that's kinda sad , for the hardware has already been around for decades.
All it needs is a bunch of people , capable of coding the proper OS.
Moreso : people who actually WANT to code such an OS.
 
Old 09-02-2003, 03:23 PM   #267
slakmagik
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Computer: warp speed 6!

-- All we've gotten in 37 years is the friggin' communicators. "Beam me up, Scotty."

Seriously, though, that's an end user perspective - a valid one, but only one perspective. Computers don't do themselves yet. *People* get computers working to automate things for *other* people, but those people need to think, interact, and manually get the things done to make it all *look* automatic.

But clicking GUI buttons over and over and over and over is neither automatic nor flawless. A command-line script, once written, is automatic. Though, granted, a speech addressed to your computer might be even more automatic someday. However, I defy anyone to verbalize a shell script of any complexity in their heads and deliver it to the computer without error and without getting completely lost. The text is *reviewable* and can be composed in sections and easily edited.

"Computer: what the hell was I talking about?"

[Long boring drone of Computer repeating back the speech, promptly resulting in the user/commander forgetting it all again by the time Computer's done.]

-- Besides, computers aren't just about automation. They're interesting complicated devices in their own right that some people (me, sometimes) enjoy tweaking and breaking and understanding. I get a kick out of making them *do* stuff. If they were absolutely automatic and flawless, they'd be very boring. There'd be nothing to do with them.

Still, I'm all for a third OS of *some* kind. The only two that count are *all* NT or *nix-based. But the reason you're never going to get people wanting to code a perfectly automatic OS is because then the coders wouldn't have anything to do. They'd automate themselves right out of the OS. ackers want a hacking system. MS wants money. Users want automation. MS comes closest to automation and produces very bad systems by cracking whips on the backs of unhappy coder-drones. Linux is a much better system coded by happy hackers and isn't very automatic. Hence your two OSes, I guess.
 
Old 09-02-2003, 03:46 PM   #268
Megamieuwsel
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Quote:
perfectly automatic OS is because then the coders wouldn't have anything to do.
I think you're completely wrong at that point , my dear Digiot;
As technology advances , so will the end-user-demands.
OSes will always need the input of dedicated coders , who will write the new features and implementations that reflect those demands.
They just won't be "plumber-boy" anymore.
 
Old 09-30-2003, 08:59 PM   #269
peacemaker
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Thumbs up Good for U hawkpaul!

Hawkpaul, I totally agree with you. Thanks trying making peace with kater on here. I have to admit, I am using windows but I was just looking around at websites to see what I could find for other os's. Just thought I would say Thanks for being a peace maker!
 
Old 10-25-2003, 08:17 PM   #270
dain.bentley
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Registered: Oct 2003
Location: Alexandria, VA
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Quote:
Originally posted by bentman78
Of course people like the duh factor. People want to site at home, surf the internet, read e-mail and play games. Maybe the curious ones want to download a firewall or something for thier PC. Who wants to sit there and mess with config files all night. People just want to install the software.

Look at it from the end-users perspective. I personally think Linux is more stable, quicker, and all around more secure (at least now, there has been at least a 65% increase in Linux virus writers here int he US the past year).

I have both at home, and two different computers. It depends what I am trying to do. I think Linux displays gifs and jpgs better. However when I want to blow up Nazi's in Medal of Honor, I obviuosly use windows. When I install comething, I just want to run a .exe and be done with it. That's most peoples mentality.

In the work enviornment, I think Linux is great for web/database/firewall work (altough BSD for firewalls is my first choice). however AD and Exchange are top notch, and will only improve come Windows 2005. Even the changes in 2003 are significant to 2000 as far as enterprise standards are concerned. AD is an awesome powerful tool. It has problems ( the database can't get bigger the 2 gigs), however it will be fixed when it will be run on a SQL platform (2005).


Each has their place. I like both. But please consider both ends. Microsoft is a big faceless and facist organization somtimes. But they can produce good products. And it can be cheap if you know the system (and I am not talking about pirating)
Good Products don't have a security flaw every 30 seconds. Microsoft is the kraft macaroni and cheese plant of the computer industry. Sometimes a homecooked meal is worth the wait.
 
  


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