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Old 05-19-2015, 02:08 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by TobiSGD View Post
Slashing the welfare state will not help with reducing numbers of illegal immigrants, people fleeing a civil war won't care about that, it is making the living conditions better at the places where those people come from that will help.
Thanks for putting it into such succint words.
 
Old 05-19-2015, 03:33 PM   #32
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We're still struggling with the consequences of WWII - many thanks to those who drew all those straight lines across Africa & Co.
 
Old 05-19-2015, 08:04 PM   #33
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My complaint about illegal immigration is this. People sneak in because they know someone will hire them. The so called jobs are ones that may not pay the proper amount, offer protections or insurances. These illegals are making small businesses richer because the owners don't pay the proper amounts. The illegals now have full benefit of social services. It boils down to crooked business owners taking advantage of workers to line their pockets. If the government fined the heck out of these businesses, we'd get them paying the proper scales and work conditions. Of course nothing ever works out as planned.

My goal would be to train native born more fully and more freely. Universities here in Texas a fantastically rich. Centuries of oil and donations have left them where they shouldn't need to charge admission. The pay scales of the university if out of line with their net worth to the country. Why pay a professor a million dollars a year or football coaches 5 million?? Just dopey.

I was considering retiring to other countries for maybe a few years. Many want $250,000 at least to let a legal visitor reside there. Sheeze, I'll just jump ship and live like the illegals do till I get caught. Then let them fly me home.

Last edited by jefro; 05-20-2015 at 08:46 PM.
 
Old 05-19-2015, 08:18 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by Pearlseattle View Post
It's a pity that we're all still stuck on this planet - Kubrick estimated in the 60' that we would have reached Jupiter ~15 years ago.
Let's start a new thread, "Why living on Earth is better than on Jupiter"
 
Old 05-20-2015, 02:25 PM   #35
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Let's start a new thread, "Why living on Earth is better than on Jupiter"
Less intense hurricanes.
 
Old 05-20-2015, 08:35 PM   #36
maples
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Originally Posted by dugan View Post
Less intense hurricanes.
Call me crazy, but I like breathing oxygen.
 
Old 05-21-2015, 07:27 AM   #37
TobiSGD
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jefro View Post
My complaint about illegal immigration is this. People sneak in because they know someone will hire them. The so called jobs are ones that may not pay the proper amount, offer protections or insurances. These illegals are making small businesses richer because the owners don't pay the proper amounts. The illegals now have full benefit of social services. It boils down to crooked business owners taking advantage of workers to line their pockets. If the government fined the heck out of these businesses, we'd get them paying the proper scales and work conditions. Of course nothing ever works out as planned.
Then you should do that to all businesses, not only those that employ illegal immigrants. Just have a look at Walmart and how many of their employees are using welfare programs because they are paid so less money that they can't make a living. Meanwhile, at least in red states in your country, republican politicians are slashing welfare (even going as far as wanting to prevent food stamp recipients from buying potatoes, go figure) while giving tax breaks to their rich donors.
 
Old 05-21-2015, 07:30 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by jefro View Post
When I lived in Japan a guy I met from Belgium said he had to pay 80% of his pay in tax. Thought he was kidding.
He's not kidding. There are many other taxes than the income tax, such as the VAT (25% in Sweden).

Quote:
It's also the idea that Americans can strive for a life of proud individualism, recognition, and personal liberty.
Individualism is good in the right amount, but I wouldn't want to live in the USA. Too much individualism. It needs to be lagom. Too much individualism and you will have widespread poverty and homeless people everywhere due to a lack of social safety nets. Too little individualism and you will have Bolshevism with communists hanging over your shoulder.
 
Old 05-21-2015, 10:39 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jefro View Post
My complaint about illegal immigration is this. People sneak in because they know someone will hire them. The so called jobs are ones that may not pay the proper amount, offer protections or insurances. These illegals are making small businesses richer because the owners don't pay the proper amounts. The illegals now have full benefit of social services. It boils down to crooked business owners taking advantage of workers to line their pockets. If the government fined the heck out of these businesses, we'd get them paying the proper scales and work conditions.
That's a complaint about businesses violating labor (particularly minimum wage) laws and getting away with it, not a complaint about illegal immigration.

And "fined"? A business that makes violating the law an intrinsic part of its operations should lose its license to operate.

Last edited by dugan; 05-21-2015 at 11:14 AM.
 
Old 05-21-2015, 12:30 PM   #40
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Individualism is good in the right amount, but I wouldn't want to live in the USA. Too much individualism. It needs to be lagom. Too much individualism and you will have widespread poverty and homeless people everywhere due to a lack of social safety nets. Too little individualism and you will have Bolshevism with communists hanging over your shoulder.
Am old enough to remember (in the U.S. at least) when the social safety net was provided by family, friends, neighbors, and religious groups, and not by federal programs. To try to achieve balance (lagom ??) between individualism and socialism is illusory; both sides are dehumanizing. What I'm saying is, before the socialistic Great Society federal programs, people helped people, not the feds. The problem of illegal immigration ceases to be divisive if the only help they will receive is voluntary and interpersonal.
 
Old 05-21-2015, 01:59 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dogpatch View Post
Am old enough to remember (in the U.S. at least) when the social safety net was provided by family, friends, neighbors, and religious groups, and not by federal programs. To try to achieve balance (lagom ??) between individualism and socialism is illusory; both sides are dehumanizing. What I'm saying is, before the socialistic Great Society federal programs, people helped people, not the feds. The problem of illegal immigration ceases to be divisive if the only help they will receive is voluntary and interpersonal.
How old are you? You'd need to be 90+ to remember when the social safety nets were created (welfare and SS) being that they were created in 1935 by FDR.
 
Old 05-21-2015, 07:03 PM   #42
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How old are you? You'd need to be 90+ to remember when the social safety nets were created (welfare and SS) being that they were created in 1935 by FDR.
Yes, the mentality started with FDR's New Deal, and that indeed proved to be the camel's nose under the tent. But SS was proposed and implemented not as an entitlement giveaway but as a savings plan, the taxpayer's own money coming back to him. Other programs were relatively small. I personally never knew anyone who received a monthly welfare check until I was in my 20's. I stand by my assessment that 60 years ago, people helped people, and government programs were largely a non-factor. LBJ's Great Society opened the floodgates, and I have personally met many many people in the subsequent years whose families and communities have been ruined by the dependency and institutionalization of poverty resulting from the federal welfare programs of the 70's and beyond.
 
Old 05-21-2015, 07:29 PM   #43
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Empires are built using cheap labor. If an immigrant "steals" your job, it's because they can do more for less, so it is your fault not theirs, you can't compete, and competition is American.
 
Old 05-21-2015, 11:39 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by dogpatch View Post
Yes, the mentality started with FDR's New Deal, and that indeed proved to be the camel's nose under the tent. But SS was proposed and implemented not as an entitlement giveaway but as a savings plan, the taxpayer's own money coming back to him. Other programs were relatively small. I personally never knew anyone who received a monthly welfare check until I was in my 20's. I stand by my assessment that 60 years ago, people helped people, and government programs were largely a non-factor. LBJ's Great Society opened the floodgates, and I have personally met many many people in the subsequent years whose families and communities have been ruined by the dependency and institutionalization of poverty resulting from the federal welfare programs of the 70's and beyond.
I assumed you were a boomer you guys do tend to think the world revolves around and everything important happened between 1960 and 1980.

Last edited by Germany_chris; 05-21-2015 at 11:40 PM.
 
Old 05-21-2015, 11:54 PM   #45
dugan
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Originally Posted by Germany_chris View Post
I assumed you were a boomer you guys do tend to think the world revolves around and
Yeah but to be fair, which generation has that not been said about?
 
  


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