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Old 10-21-2004, 10:43 PM   #121
dolvmin
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Quote:
Originally posted by Nodin
A previous post mentioned that people seem to prefer the systems they grew up with. This is a good point. Personally i'm coming from a Dos/Windows background so of course I'm wired to think that way. Just like Apple users to swear by Apple software over anything else.

The question is does everyone want everyone using Windows/Apple software to switch over to Linux?

If so then guess what, Linux is definately #3 or below as far as usage worldwide goes. What I see so many Linux lovers doing is repremanding Windows users for not liking the Linux OS. Why should a lifelong windows user need to memorize a book full of Linux commands just to use a computer?

Thing is, most people could care less about how much they've learned about an operating system. They just want to play games, write text files, surf the internet and send e-mail. I'm using Suse now at home and this sort of stuff wasn't hard to configure but I've been working with computers for a while now and have a vague understanding of where to go.

I guess the point I wish to make is that if the Linux community really wants to take over the pc market then attitudes really need to change. The OS needs to be improved for the average joe. Attitudes on how software is created and used needs to change. Just because someone has mastered Linux really don't mean crap beyond their home unless the software becomes more widely used.

I mean, Linux has been out for over a decade now. Yes it has grown quite a bit since then. True Windows stole stuff from Linux and everyone else out there even the original DOS system. Look how far they have gone. All because Microsoft has focus and a goal. Sure lots of people hate windows but that doesn't stop everyone from using it.

Personally I find using Windows very difficult at times but then again because of that is why I have a job. I would simply love to switch over all of the computers in our company to Linux but it simply isn't going to work because software makers still don't support it.

In all the time Linux has been out all it has been hindered by simple loss of focus and goals by the community which almost appears to have this "linux is great and doesn't need to be improved" mindset. Like I mentioned in an earlier post, I feel so discouraged that a software with such amazing potential is just progressing at a snail's pace.

Personally I'm trying to learn Linux programming and really wish to make some sort of difference but all in all it seems futile unless the Linux community as a whole could agree to some goals and agree on what the linux experience is like for new linux users. Time and time again new users are met with a poor attitude as if these people should just know how to do things. Certainly Microsoft doesn't have this problem. In fact users of XP will find those "wizards" one of the most annoying aspects of XP, but for the majority of the population who doesn't know jack find it very useful.
I've grown up using Windows/DOS at one point of my time. I was much like the comment stated on your first paragraph; I was defensive toward my historical use of Windows. I would defend Windows, even with the use of statements of which were bias. So why did I switch to Linux from Windows? When I first used Linux, I found myself in a situation of which made it clear by facts, that I was safer. After I explored Linux further, I also found it's power to provide a far greater scalability then that of Windows. Finally, I found the potential to bring both of these great qualities to my world, at a fraction of the price.

As a person who meets the criteria of your first paragraph, I feel this theory of why people are defensive toward the OS of which they use is incorrect.

I believe the true reasoning to why people would be defensive is not by historical views but rather real time experiences of which provide them limited facts. I say limited, because it is necessary to view the entire picture to obtain a valid comparison.

People blemish Microsoft's Products, but not because they are a super giant. They do it for two reasons. First, the people who do get a valid comparison understand the history of mistakes, the choices of which conduct poor improvement, and the constant failure to discontinue the cycle of such, a reason. Second, the people who are new, absorbing every little detail about there industry, look to these people as guiding figures; and follow them.

The difference between facts and opinions are clear and indisputable. A opinion can waver from one person to another based on there feelings toward an issue, while a fact is a conclusive circumstance which will result, or has resulted to an reacted effect.

When people are discouraged by Microsoft products, it is often because of facts. For example, when DOS was made, it obtained the 640KB ceiling. Another example is when Microsoft designed Windows XP to incorporate Internet Explorer into the core of the Windows XP Operating system, providing pathway for hackers and crackers to exploit a foreign system. A final example is Microsoft's compatibility advantage; It allows programmers to be more careless, which often can result to poor program quality. When the OS is upgraded to a new version, software compatibility issues arise, and are very difficult to resolve if the quality of the product is poor.

There is nothing historical about these facts. Many Linux users from the US are former Windows users who felt the same way. Some are concerned about the money they spend and the quality of the product they invest that money toward. You would not pay a great deal of money for a car worth less then the listed price if the car would not last longer then two years, would you?

Based on statistical facts, I believe people defend Windows because of it's primary advantage over Linux; compatibility. People want something easy, understandable, fast, and trouble-free when they go on the computer. Majority of the users do not know anything about their computer except how to use one of two programs; thus they are unable to deal with the issues that Linux may cause them. When running games, many gamers would gladly stay with Windows because the games would run more efficiently (unless the game was developed to work directly on Linux without the use of Wine, WineX or any other program). If people truly desired to be on an OS they are adjusted to, Linux would not be eliminated from the choice, here's why:

http://www.kde-look.org/content/prev...=kde3+xp+style
http://themes.mozdev.org/themes/ie.html
http://www.openoffice.org/
http://www.gimp.org/
http://www.kicq.org/
http://nwn.bioware.com/downloads/linuxclient.html
http://www.transgaming.com/
http://www.winehq.com/

The one thing all these links have in common is there development toward making Linux as much like Windows as possible, without violating any EULA or copy right infringement. Merging all these products together to work without the user having to independently run them would allow Linux to very much look and run like Windows. Compatibility will still be an issue, but these teams are working hard and steady to resolve these problems.

I honestly do not believe a person's historical experience with an operating system is a real statistical factor. I do not believe all operating systems can be seen as the same in scalability. I do feel some operating systems have a leaning edge over others based on certain areas, and the overall idea of how they are going to be used does make a difference. But this is my theory, and opinion. Thanks for reading.
 
Old 10-22-2004, 11:36 PM   #122
stabile007
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Quote:
Originally posted by m_lp_ql_m
It's no secret that Microsoft will benefit greatly from the so-called "reconstruction".

http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2004/08/294790.shtml
Im sorry but thats hardly called sponsoring a war. Most of that "article" is speculation. Its hardly uncommon for companies to pick up former federal employees for larger amounts of salary. its called a strategy you know forming politcial ties to make sure you get a piece of the pie.

it happens all the time. Someone who worked for the CIA or FBI or NSA and had a security clearance will never have trouble finding a job outside of the government because companies who do all these governmennt contracts are always looking for people like that.

yes I see a large company with an apparent office base in Saudi Arabia should sit back and do nothing while a lucritive contract walks by....
 
Old 10-24-2004, 05:56 PM   #123
rusty_slacker
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linux can overthrow windows.... in a world of geeks, hackers, slackers, nerds, macheads, brainiacs, geniuses, and those in the command-line underworld. therefore, it fits me perfectly Microsoft is an evil, money-guzzling company full of cheaters, stealers, brainiacs, and rich folks.... when those programmers go home at night, i'll bet their computers run a flavor of UNIX
 
Old 10-25-2004, 12:01 AM   #124
m_shroom
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Linux will overthrow windows, when M$ next release "Longshot" comes out and is attacted by a virus or worm in the first month the world will wake up.
 
Old 10-25-2004, 01:07 AM   #125
dolvmin
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Quote:
Originally posted by m_shroom
Linux will overthrow windows, when M$ next release "Longshot" comes out and is attacted by a virus or worm in the first month the world will wake up.
That has been a thought itching in every corner of my brain for the last few weeks after reading an article about Longhorn'y (hacked os). But I got some juicy info for you to indulge in. Though Microsoft is making Longhorn with a Linux like kernel, it is however, not making their filing structure of that like Linux. What does this mean?

Linux has a database like file structure, which grants rights to 3 groups; the User, the Group, and the Other. This very simple security policies has forged one of the major attributes in Linux, to sway away unwanted hackers and viruses. In fact, several security holes found in some Linux distributions on the testing for Fedora and other pre-beta kernels, had to frequently update the kernel with new code to protect against possible local hackers exploiting the machine through USB, simply because these security polices were not set.

The Kernel, promotes the security polices of Linux by operating processes individually. It is my understanding, these security polices will not be part of Longhorn. Thus, if NDIS is not active, and if someone was to design a virus in a individual process, that process could leap from user account to user account with limited resistance. It could also infect the program in Longhorn, which would display the processes in memory, which thus, would make it difficult for a virus to be found to begin with. This means, Longhorn may be very stable, very powerful, but absolutely horrible when it comes to safety. The theory of NDIS being secure is only if they designed the processes of how NDIS works, in a secure like pattern to fit the new kernel. I see Longhorn as a mistaken with greater potential of disaster then WinXP and there integrated IE.
 
Old 10-25-2004, 01:08 AM   #126
dolvmin
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BTW, if LongHorn does prove to be very insecure, for the reasons I said, someone needs to give me a high paying job. =)
 
Old 12-10-2004, 09:42 AM   #127
oxleyk
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The three best reasons to use Windows:

Viruses, worms, and adware.

--------------
Microsoft--Even our name has two holes.
 
Old 12-10-2004, 03:46 PM   #128
jackstoage
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People say windows is successful because it's just good. I say, "compared to what?" Linux is good too; so is apple (except you have to buy a whole new computer to try apple, which is what holds it back).

Windows owns so much of the world market that it has no equal competition and as such we don't know how good an operating system can be. There is the right way, wrong way and the Microsoft way. They have got where they are using a superior process, capitalism. They were early with the product, out marketed the competition and paid for the best talent, not because the product is the best that can be had. That, we may never experience.

I like linux becuse it suits my needs and I like a good puzzle. What's a five letter word for download.....urpmi.

jack
 
Old 12-16-2004, 12:16 AM   #129
toastermaker
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Regardless, I found this encouraging

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6719248/

I haven't seen Linux growth projection put this specifically before. Perhaps the author doesn't know what hes talking about but still it was good to see in the main stream media.
 
Old 12-19-2004, 02:00 PM   #130
mortaal
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GNU/Linux will rule the world because it is Free. That is the greatest value it has.
 
Old 02-02-2005, 02:07 AM   #131
TheHushedCaskeT
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Re: Why Linux Will never overthrow or compete with Windows

Quote:
Originally posted by Boffy
I recently tried mandrake linux 9.1 due to problems that i encountered with windows. I am a desktop user with a reasonable powerful PC, a shared broadband connection using the linux computer as a server. I was hoping for linux to solve all the problems such as constant crashing but I encountered many new problems that are just as bad as the bsod or worse. Anyway below are problems that i encountered.
1) To share the Internet connection I must turn on the computers in a specific order
2) the firewall is hard to use and does not work with Internet connection sharing
3)The computer takes a very long time to load
4) Most good computer games do not work(It don't normally bother me but its still a major disadvantage for many)
5)WINE is crap
6)Many good programs crash frequently
7)Newbies will struggle with console mode (as i did)
9)When problems occur the fix can be extremely complex

I tested mandrake and I will expect many would respond to this message saying that mandrake sucks and I'm not going to dispute that, but that is not what I'm getting at i am trying to state some constructive criticism that may well help linux be a real competitor in the desktop market. I wish linux every success in its future as i dislike Microsoft's strong-arm tactics however i don't see it happening soon.

I have changed my opinion since posting this over a year ago and if you look further on in the post you can find out my reasons
"Console mode ?!" grrr You script kiddie, you SUCK !!

"9)When problems occur the fix can be extremely complex"

Problems don't happen, you happen.
 
Old 02-02-2005, 02:11 AM   #132
TheHushedCaskeT
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Hmm.

Quote:
Originally posted by dolvmin
BTW, if LongHorn does prove to be very insecure, for the reasons I said, someone needs to give me a high paying job. =)
You want a copy of the latest Wronghorn build ? I'll send it to you.

It's crap.
 
Old 02-02-2005, 02:55 AM   #133
JSpired
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Quote:
Originally posted by mortaal
GNU/Linux will rule the world because it is Free. That is the greatest value it has.
I'll have to differ here. The fact that some distros are "free" isn't important to me. I like using Linux and invest in Suse/Novell as well as other distros.
 
Old 02-02-2005, 02:59 AM   #134
TheHushedCaskeT
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It's not about users, it's about Power Users.

Linux will rule the world not because of how many people use it, but WHO uses it.
 
Old 03-14-2005, 05:17 PM   #135
rusty_slacker
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look, if longhorn comes out early and totally rocks, would any of you buy it? even if it was $10?

what if in 5 years ms embraces linux and comes out with Winux 2010 or something? would you buy that if it was free?
 
  


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