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Old 05-23-2004, 01:46 PM   #61
php
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Re: Why you should NOT use Linux on your PC


Quote:
Originally posted by Eagle_Y

Basically, Linux is a "Hardcore computer programmer's OS made to administer networks in low-resource environments". That is IT!

HAHAHAHA, I'm glad people like you can't figure out how to use it correctly
 
Old 05-23-2004, 01:55 PM   #62
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Well, well, well...one of the trolls from USENET decided to come and play. Is there the functional equivalent of a kill file for this board? You can always tell because the content of the post rarely changes...anti-Linux...pro-Windows...just soft enough to sound like it might be legit...but absolutely no detail. No specifics as in exact hardware, no exact error messages. And somebody ALWAYS falls for it and responds as if the post were legit.
 
Old 05-23-2004, 01:57 PM   #63
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Don't you just love those threads? . It's a LQ tradition to get at least one n00b every week. I cannot say that my first shot with Linux was difficult. Actually, the first thing I did when I installed Mandrake was to go into Winamp homepage, download winamp, double click on it and .... nothing happened... "What stupid OS Linux is", I said .

There's nothing wrong being a newbie. But at least I did not pretend to say that "I am a computer guru, and I've been using computers since...". Why do peoples have to say that? Because, instead of blaming their own incompetence, they blame the OS to feel good about themselves. Kinda funny...

Again, there's nothing wrong being a newbie. We all been there once for goddess sake. Now, being a newbie and have tried something once and judge it (or not even tried and judge something) is not being newbie, it's being stupid...
 
Old 05-23-2004, 02:03 PM   #64
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Damn! That's good bait! I wonder if it works on Bass....
 
Old 05-23-2004, 02:10 PM   #65
Mara
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This thread has been merged with 'Why you should NOT use Linux on your PC', as the subject is nearly exactly the same.
 
Old 05-24-2004, 04:01 PM   #66
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Re: Why you should NOT use Linux on your PC

Quote:
Originally posted by Eagle_Y
Hi all,
Iíve been using computers since the days of pinch cards. Oh those were the days when you have to type every single command and wait forever for an answer.

I have installed Linux on my P4 3GHz 1G Ram 200G HD (A mandrake distro). I have to say that it wasn't a success story, first I had to repartition, I almost lost my data on the hard disk because of that(thanks to partition magic!)

Anyways, after a long day I finally completed the install and Linux booted for the first time. This computer was intended for family use (web browsing, mmedia, simple gaming, etc etc). First of all, it was very user un-friendly! You have to have root access to install anything, programs are not as good as the ones in the win32 platform and when you find one that functions correctly it looks like rubbish! Some distros are not compatible with other distros when it comes to programs?!? I tried installing a Debian program on my Mandrake and it didn't work well (Aren't they the same?). Hardware support is very verrrry minimal and if you want to make the most out of your PC just install the Good ole Windows. I have to admit that Linux did walk a long way in hardware support and detection but its not their yet (my vga was not detected, my firewire hard drive was not detected, my camera "usb" was not detected, even my usb mouse had problems because Linux thought it was a 2 button one when its a three button wheel!).

Basically, Linux is a "Hardcore computer programmer's OS made to administer networks in low-resource environments". That is IT! It should not and must NEVER be labelled "user-friendly". I don't think that it was designed to be user-friendly in the first place; I strongly doubt that there was a reason behind making it except being cheep and not wanting to "buy an OS"

(X) People switch to Linux everyday thinking that they're finally "Microsoft Free". That is pure greed and jealousy! Why?

(o) Greed, because you don't want to spend your money buying something that people work really hard to make. I am not here supporting Microsoft, but if you don't want to buy from Microsoft then don't! There are plenty and plenty of p2p networks and you can download the latest versions of any OS and program before they even release it! And don't give me that copyright law rubbish. I would laugh really if somebody argued that they won't do it because of copyright laws because nowadays nobody in the individual level cares about it! The only people who do are companies, universities and organisations.
(o) Jealousy "with a twist of greed", because this is human nature. We always want to be on the top of the chain, the ones holding power and the ones in control of the situation. How can that happen, the golden answer "money". Then you compare yourself to Bill Gates and that would most certainly create feelings of hate against him "in a very personal way", you'll start asking why is he that rich and I am not, why am I making him more rich than he already is, he shouldn't be as rich as he is now and what can I do to stop his fortunes from growing. And the answer would be "Let's make Linux!"

(X) Others switch to Linux for security concerns

Nothing is perfect, this is a fact. People have difficulty accepting that fact. When they purchase "or borrow" something they expect it to be perfect from flaws. They have this wrong picture that computers don't make mistakes. Who made these computers? Humans and humans do make mistakes and itís just impossible to create something perfect unless you are a god. If you don't believe in god then itís simply impossible!
The challenge would be in detecting these flaws in time and making measures to correct them. That is basically what Apple and Microsoft is doing along with all the major players in the computer biz including Linux developers. We all heard the news about the worm Sasser. If users keep their OS up to date, nothing like that would have happened. Itís the mistake of the user. As for apple and other OS Vendors, we hardly ever hear about a virus or a worm in their platforms because simply not many use these platforms in the first place. "Dr Web" is an example of an anti-virus in Linux which only proves one thing, Linux is not virus free! Bright programmers would always prefer to work on the win platform because itís the most popular and probably the easiest and most supported, and I am not talking about virus programmers only but programmers in general.

(X) Others switch to Linux because itís free and it does not consume allot of computer resources.

Well, sure Linux is free and Iím not here to promote the violations of copyright laws but allot of windows users got their OS for free from p2p networks. But if think about most of the distributions of Linux apply an "indirect" method of income which you'd be paying in the end. It is financially impossible to build a distribution and distributed around the world with no source of income. Mandrake has the Club membership and they keep bugging you about it forever when you install their distro, Red Hat has its Cooperate editions which are not free. Debian relies on donations and direct involvement of the user in the development of the OS which makes is very unprofessional. Not to mention the ad-packed websites they have.
In regard to the low consumption of computer resources in Linux, it is true to a certain extent especially if you want to run a server but if you want to use a PC for 3D enabled applications (e.g. Games) then Linux would fail you even if you have the best graphics card in the world. If you're not a programmer and you can't find a driver for it then it would be as useless as a 16bit vga card.

(X) Others switch because its open source....

Being Open Source increases the chance of making hacks that will never be detected. It makes it easier to exploit the system because a programmer can read the code and "look" for flaws and use them for her advantage. Its best for the user to keep the source "closed". The only advantage I can think of is that computer science students can benefit from seeing the code and learn how operating systems work.


To sum up everything I said, with all due respect to Linux developers, if you are looking for an operating system that is user-friendly, widely supported world wide by hardware and software vendors. If you want your 7 year old son to start the computer and play his favourite game without your help or you just want to install an OS that is so automated you just need to remember you name, then you should never switch to or start with Linux. I don't like listing alternatives but Microsoft's platform is by far the best in the market. That does not mean that Linux developers should stop developing Linux, itís just not mature yet to play against the big guys.

Eagle Y
Heh, is that why Squaresoft made Final Fantasy Online from Linux w/ 3D Studio Max? Is that why all there games are now made the same way?

Is that why Dell is making there servers with Red Hat Linux, and making many of there client systems with Linows Linux?

Is that why over 30,000 computers in Germany scrapped Windows for Lindows Linux?

Is that why I can play many Windows based games with winex3?

Is that why I have to "PAY" for winex3? (must be subscribed?

Is that why I would have a job customizing a Linux Distribution to be "user friendly" rather then use a "standard" promoted by someone who charges $200 a license? (Microsoft).

Is that why Macintosh (one of the computers you used to compare to Linux) made there latest OS, OS X & OS X Jaguar using the Darwin UNIX Kernel? (The more powerful and more user un-friendly Kernel)

Is that why Macintosh is "SO" user friendly, even a dummy can manage it, where as Windows must often be taken to a technician, because a simple minded individual can not decipher the problem?

Is that why Microsoft partitioning system can not identify any EXT filing systems as well as OS/2 Filing systems? (compared to many of the Linux Distributions partitioning systems).

No no no... Microsoft is close enough to be considered a Monopoly by the public, if not by the government system. Microsoft has the money to make a piece of $hit be user friendly. The Linux community in the other hand must work together to do this, and even with this said, Microsoft is still a 1000' giant in comparison. Yet a company so large can not understand a kernel so small? That's because Microsoft has money, not brains. That also the reason why it's so easy to use Windows, instead of Linux. Microsoft promotes not using your brain because they know you would give them your money if that was so. But behind the sidelines, they fail to let you know that Windows can do A, B and C.

Linux will be user friendly, though I personally feel it is not there yet. But you must understand that Linux is so much more powerful, that even if it was converted to 100% GUI, there will be so much dynamics involved, it will still be very difficult. In addition, the Linux community likes to provide the ability for users to customize what they would call, user friendliness.

Fact is, Linux will never be as user friendly as Windows, because it's simply to powerful. But it can be emulated to becoming as user fiendly when a distribution is customized for it's intent. That means you have a job buddy. Microsoft is taking away from you. Think about it.
 
Old 05-24-2004, 09:41 PM   #67
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every time i think about switching back to windows, i pick up the newspaper and read about the latest worm affected windows 2000/xp computers.
 
Old 05-24-2004, 09:52 PM   #68
dolvmin
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Quote:
Originally posted by haimeltjnfg
every time i think about switching back to windows, i pick up the newspaper and read about the latest worm affected windows 2000/xp computers.
Speeking of worms, I had a Linksys router for about 2 years. I use the log system within it often and got only IPs.

Then, I decided to make one of my computers into a router using Linux Smoothwall. Did you know that several of those IP's hitting my Linksys router were worms coming from Windows Server hosted Corperations??? They were attacking my Windows Box and I never knew it!

That's right, my Linux Smoothwall Gateway's SNORT picked up that worm attack right away, and verified the OS behind it, and this entire time I never knew about it because Linksys and Windows were simple too basic.

Now that I think about it, that's the only true thing Microsoft made. Basic. Basic to QBASIC, and now Visual Basic. Why would I use this stuff again? What was that? Use Visual Java, Visual C++ and C#? Sure, why not. Who needs Microsoft...
 
Old 05-24-2004, 10:36 PM   #69
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Boy this one touched some nerves. Everyone would have to admit linux is not for the meek or a gamer. Windows is more plug and play. Windows used to be better supported, but support has degraded or ceased for the non geek types. On the other hand internet support through user groups is very good from my point of view though the help is often too brief or geeky for a newbie. Basically Windows is so much easier for me because I have grown up with it 15 years and can't expect to be as good a linux in just one year. I suspect if the tables were turned it would be the same. It boils down to the vast majority of users who have grown up with windows don't want to learn something new. that's not where they see the fun. Its in the apps. personally I would like linux to go commercial. Then you would see its PnP capability soar and it be a real competitor to windows.
 
Old 05-25-2004, 11:47 AM   #70
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What gets me and I would guess a large portion of the linux complainers is simply the attitude found in messages like this. Frustrated newbies go to vent, experienced users lash back and nothing is ever decided.

Personally I feel that many experienced users don't see the big picture. Since computers became easy to use by the general public the world was propelled in technology. Businesses became more efficient, research into every field really took off, in general great things became possible without the need to pay a university or private company to compute data for you.

The only reason this became possible is price and ease of use.

What is the point of a computer if it doesn't make your life easier? Why should a researcher put his/her work on hold just to take a few years to learn a computer system.

Why is it that ease of use is so frowned upon in the linux community? This should be the goal!

Great so you know a great deal about linux and use it over windows. What good does that do for the future of computer technology? I would have to wonder if this is the root of many newbies complaints. When they go to complain about it all they get is a beating for their opinion and I'd wager that many people involved in linux development react just as many linux comfortable people here do.
 
Old 05-26-2004, 03:43 PM   #71
dolvmin
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Linux can easily be made user friendly, even beyond what of Windows. However, in order to get this done, you need a combination of resources. The fact is, the Linux Kernel is GPL'ed, where as UNIX isn't (why Mac OS X choose Unix kernel over Linux). This plays a vital role in the business world, because no matter what you do to a Linux OS, you can not sell the OS. You can resale a registered copy of a product that is licensed by the producer, but you can not sell a Global Public Licensed product, because it's Licensing agreements carry over to the registered copy.

But with a Global Public License, you can sell time of support, maintenance, support, and much much more, but you can not sell the Linux OS. This means that companies can easily lose profit for any and all work they put into a Linux OS, because the expenses used to create the OS were not balanced out by the income made to recover from those expenses. The only clear profit that can be made is not a profit, but rather a lost cost expense. A company that produces software can customize a Linux OS to there needs, not having to pay for anything but the expenses found at the result of the produced outcomes. Following this, the company can use the software to produce art, programs, songs, network services and other elements of possible income. This is why Linux is not user friendly. In order for companies to make profit from using Linux, they need to be able to customize it. They need the full power of Linux and have the choice to narrow down what is and is not needed within it. In this field, Microsoft holds no challenge.

However, companies normally supply computers to the users, both external and internal within the company. External users may be something as simple as customers, or as complicated as wireless mobile support, such as seen with FOX news. Because of the dynamics and the requirements of stability within the product and not the OS, system owners will often choose Microsoft because of there wider range of support, both from the OS and the software made for the OS.

With this said, it would be advised to keep it in mind as I go on.

In order to make the Linux OS user friendly, you must know how to program in Perl, Bash, C++ and Java. You will also need to be able to document well, and know how to organize your selves very well. You will need time, lots of it, and you will need to study most programs and how they compile into Linux so you can figure out a standard to installing them automatically. You will need to understand that you can not sell what you make unless it does not involve directly requiring the Linux Kernel to be part of the program. Finally, you will need to study, understand, and embrace the possible fact of security holes and how you can approach them.

This kind of project would be make or break in your career because it would take a team to do this in several years worth of time. The Entire Linux community is working diligently to achieving this, and with so many more pressing factors regarding the public need, rather then an individual, there job is over a thousand times harder. Microsoft has it easy but at the end, hard work proves to be more successfully then a cheep fix.
 
Old 07-14-2004, 05:24 PM   #72
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I will not go into allot of tech talk, but I will say this, To anybody about to try a Linux distribution.

STICK WITH IT!!!!!!!

In the end I think you will be happier.

Up until a few months ago I didn't even really know what Linux was. (and the shame comes in waves) But since trying Mandrake 10 CE I have been allot more pleased with my system.
I admit there have been a few bumps in the road but nothing that a little reading couldn't fix, and if you have a liking for the world of computers then a little reading shouldn't scare you.
Anyway, I , in my humble opinion, think Linux has the ability to to invade every household out there as long as the people in those houses aren't lazy,illiterate,morons.

Thanks for your time.
Up with the Drake
Down with the Snake
 
Old 07-14-2004, 07:03 PM   #73
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Well this post has spiraled beyond belief. Since posting it close to a year has passed, the world has changed quite significantly, but on the insignificant side I have grown to love linux. I had trouble at first with mandrake 9.1 but 9.2 is a great product. I can do almost everything I used to be able to do on linux before hand meaning the only times I have to go onto windows is to write CD's and windows is stable when you only have one thing to do. It just doesn't like multi tasking.

I would advise anyone to give linux a shot if you have some time to dedicate to it at first. Not good for exam time or before a big deadline but great for a dull Saturday or holiday. Once you get it to your tastes you won't be going back.


Boffy
 
Old 07-14-2004, 07:08 PM   #74
vectordrake
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Install K3B and you'll never need to go to Windows to burn cds either. It'll burn most anything (even those bootable OS cds that won't burn properly with Nero...)
 
Old 07-14-2004, 09:27 PM   #75
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When I get called a Windows Troll, Just look at posts like these and say sorry.
Most of the problems with linux that this this person has seen, are a result of a lack intelligent thinking.
Linux taking longer to load than windows> True, but Try loading Windows after running it without an expensive anti-virus software for a fw weeks and you will see that it takes much longer to get rid of every infected file that a trojan has created and trojans in practice can not work on Linux because of the two levels of use.
It may be quicker to load windows, but the moment you do a bit of internet exploring without anti-virus it will take you a lot lot longer to load the system to its best capacity.
 
  


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