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-   -   Why Linux Will never overthrow or compete with Windows (

trickykid 07-26-2003 10:11 AM

Windows vs Linux type debates/discussions don't go in Linux - General, moved to General where its more suitable.

alkad_mzu 07-26-2003 12:02 PM

wow so much replies, i havent read every reply but ill speak my mind anyway.
im a red had 8.0 desktop usr/
i dont know a whole lot but i know enough to get mp3s paying, networks talking to eachother, and open gl support (nvidia ai 32)
the only problem i have with linux on a whole is that its up to you to get it to do what you want it to do. but then im in a double bind becuase the reason i got linux to begin with was to gain control over my computing experience. redhat has given me the amount of control that i am able to handle. ive tried suse 8.1 and i was impressed with how crisp its kde environment was and how easy it was to get 3d acceleration. and i imagine mandrake 9x should provide something alittle nicer. ive noticed that nonslackware distros tend to focus on ethier gnome or kde as their main windows manager and usually the latter is left with alot of work to be done on it. (ei:redhat uses gnome and its kde sucks, suse uses kde and its gnome sucks). so what ever distro you get i
you get your self setup on the defult windows managers and download netscape and link your java plugin ( ln -s /java/pluginpath/ /usr/netscape/plugin/) in the mean time you figure out how the hell to java to really work on konqueror( im in the middle of reading the help section of Konqueror. for those who like getting stuff off the newsgroups id suggest getting pan which seems to primarily for the gnome environment.
anyway in response to the thread starter, go back to windows you should never compare winblows to the worst linux distro.
you're right it'll never compare to windows becuase windows is a program and its not open source. it was a copy of linux geared to help the weak minded get their porn and buy products at twice the cost of products found anywhere half as cheap. for the rest enjoy mk 9x you deserve it
youve work

CHaNX 07-26-2003 01:16 PM

LMAO......Mandrake Rocks BIG WILLIE STYLE.....
Take some computerlessons and come back !!!!

GhostOfYoda 07-27-2003 09:56 AM

I don't care if Linux overthrows Windows; it won't affect me in any way (except games will be easier to set up.)

However, I'm worried that Windows may overthrow Linux. I wouldn't put it past Microsoft finding a reason to push a law against Linux through Congress or something like that.

Proud 07-27-2003 10:02 AM

Erm, the US has already sued Microsoft twice for its anti-competative actions, so I don think that'll happen. But it is the US and Microsoft afterall ;)

MiscGeek 07-27-2003 10:16 AM


Originally posted by Proud
Erm, the US has already sued Microsoft twice for its anti-competative actions, so I don think that'll happen. But it is the US and Microsoft afterall ;)
Yeah, but what really happened to M$ as a result of the law suits? Not much :(

dolvmin 07-28-2003 09:45 PM


Originally posted by Megaman X
heheh :) Today I laugh at it too... but I was so angry. I can't remember if it was Media Player or ICQ that I've tried to install. I can't say how dissapointed I was because I could not figure it out how change that gnome's foot to a start button. I was so closed minded, blind with M$ that even to start my applications with a foot was wrong in my mind.... lol. How monkey, or better saying, a M$ laboratory rat was how I felt after learning Linux enough to install a program. :)

Well, anyway, a cool link and some statistics:

"According to the Gartner Group's estimate, Linux passed the 10 million user mark during 1998 and was growing at 212% annually at the time. Assuming it slows to 100% annual growth (which it has maintained since its introduction in 1990), it will surpass the Windows installed base in about three years. At that point, the network effects will favor Linux and hinder Windows."

Little added info for ya bud. Network effects do favor Linux right now... In fact, they have been.

It is a sad fact, but us end users are considered the miyority in Networking. LOL

If you want to learn a bit more about how I know this, read up on stuff regarding Novell.

Microsoft's NDS tree has been getting there arse wooped none stop with Novell. For a long time, Microsoft's OS Dept. has been funding there Networking Dept. to keep it alive. (mwahahaha) <Evil Grin> I don't remember if it was the last lawsuit or the one prior to it regarding Microsoft being legally, a monopoly. Novell had invested a bit with Linux to setup that lawsuit. Novell believed, if Microsoft had been forced to seperate, due to legally being classified as a monopoly, there OS Dept. could no longer fund there Networking Dept.

But hey, you might not want to read it, so here's some good info for you, if ya want a spoiler. heh

How many sights do you see with .com, vs .net?

Any and all sights with .net are hosted by the WINS NDS Tree from Microsoft.

.com is Novell.

Novell is so simple and easy to use, no offence, but even a computer moron can use the Novell Netware 5.0.

Though Novell can be installed on just about any plateform, including a Mac, the Novell Netware 4.0 and under was all text based. If you have ever used Novell Netware 4.0, you'll be very surprised how identical the filing system is, compared to Linux.

In fact, if your a student, learning Unix, could be a great aid to figuring out how to run any version of Novell under 4.0.

In addition, Novell was rated #1 by the D.O.D. (Dept. of Defence)

So, on the server side you will notice that you almost never see Novell Netware. That is because it was installed on the highest level on the networking tree, along with a dependable Linux Machine. Because of how important this system would be, you will almost never find a job for it. If you do, JUMP ON IT, because it is very possible, to be the $500K per year job. (unless it's the Novell Netware 5.0)

GUI's SUCK FOR A REASON TOO! They get so easy, your paycheck needs to be smaller because anyone can use them. lol

Novell is awsome. Definatelly look into it.

My information was obtain in a Novell Seminar with a representitive of Novell. It was at Seminole Comunity College, about 1 year ago.

If Linux has ever had a great ally, it would be Novell.

Oh, just a few more notes for some incoming comments that I 'KNOW" will come to me on this subject. I know some poeple who host chatboards, using Linux. These sights are also .com. The reason for this is, because the networking part of Linux is actually based on the Novell Netware. If you get ScoUNIX, and some versions of Linux, you will see Novell in a few places on BOOT UP. <SMILES>

Boffy 04-16-2004 01:21 PM

I repent im sorry for ever saying such things

I was the starter of this post and since I posted it - seems like a long time ago now - ive grown to love linux. It gives me the control i crave at the price I can afford. It looks pretty, never crashes and works with most of my hardware(except TV card but I can live with that). These are the factors that changed my mind:
1) Getting apollon working with FastTrack
2) Buying a soundblaster Live! and getting to to work better than it does in windows :D
3) Understanding URPMI and how woderful a program it is and that it should be included in all distros
4) Getting MSN messenger to work in GAIM
5) Getting DVD's to play well
6) Finding NVU (frontpage alternative)
7) Getting it to look nice with Plastik theme
8) Running my own radio station
9) Getting apache to work


Mega Man X 04-16-2004 01:43 PM

I know the feeling very well Boffy!. Nothing to be ashamed about. From time to time I happen to hate one OS and love the other one. It's a matter of spirit sometimes. Not long ago I hated the Xbox. Today noone touches my Xbox
but me :D

dizzy_vee 04-16-2004 01:49 PM

Just my $0.02 worth.

I've used Mandrake and SuSE now for about 6 months. I'm trying to go completely MS free, but there are a few reasons I cannot at the moment. The main one being professional audio production. If anyone has a viable alternative on Linux to Sonar/Soundforge, by all means, let me know. And yes, I've tried Ardour, Rosegarden with JACK. They are nice, but not there yet.

Anyway, my point is that although I'm a newbie where Linux is concerned, I am *not* a computer newbie by any means. Understanding linux for me was a lot quicker and easier than it would be for most people who use Windows for basically text processing and email/surfing/mp3s, etc (I am extremely comfortable with the CLI). That being said, I don't think linux is for the average user, nor should it be. In order to do so, it would probably have to compromise some of its security (i.e. like running as quasi-root or something) and flexibility in order to make it extremely painless.

Ask yourselves this: Do you *really* want linux to take over Windows? Don't you think that eventually, it would be dumbed down to the point that it would lose the edge in security, scalability, open-nature it now has? I could be completely wrong, but I think it would be detrimental. Maybe in 30 years when a younger generation born into computers has grown up and has had technology since birth and understands that there is something beneath the GUI and how it works, maybe then it would be ok.

But remember that the DOS console was a huge part of Windows in 3.1 and then started losing itself as of 95... now, how many people actually use the DOS console? Only the people who would also be able to use linux. Most people are at a loss at how to fix *anything* as soon as an error occurs. People comfortable with being 'under the hood' are not afraid of getting their feet wet and will fix the problem without even blinking.

Bottom line: in order to please the masses, you need to appeal to the lowest common denominator, and if linux does so, there are likely many (who would then be a minority) who would be disgusted and look elsewhere, for a 'new' linux-type OS.

I think there's a certain charm in the linux community of being able to call the os our own, and that would be lost if it needs to be shared and scaled back to appeal to those who don't really want it for its power anyway. They just want to write email. Wouldn't you resent that? What are they contributing to the community? I try to contribute by helping people who have problems, writing scripts and small applications, etc. It's akin to living in a small community where people know each other and help each other out, or living in a metropolis where no one cares and are primarily self-interested. I'll take the small community anyday.

And exhale. :) Sorry for the long-winded post.

Dizzy V.

Mega Man X 04-16-2004 02:05 PM

Oh DOS, that was really cool. I still remember getting my games to run under DOS. I had to type "set" at the prompt to find which sound card I had, it's IRQ, DMA and then use those values to the game setup. At the end, it was either the game crashing or playing it without sound, regardless if you've inserted the correct sound card specifications into the game setup or not :). But it was the only choice we had. Then came win 3.1. Wow, that was really bad... but it was the only choice we had. But I still thought DOS was easier to work with.

Well, I still use DOS today, a lot, for games. But under Linux and under emulation:

DosBox is quite slow, but still great to remember games as Prince of Persia, Wolfenstein, Out of this World, Test Drive and one of my favorites... Commander Keen. Worth the shot. Some guys got Win 3.0 to run under Dosbox, that should be really cool to get 3.11 and Netscape to run again... :D

Boffy 04-16-2004 02:25 PM

Wolfenstein now thats a flashback. I havent met that game since 1996 on my first PC (a 386 with Dos-old for the time but i was 9 and my dad took some convincing to think that was necessary). I loved those old games, back then I was not as difficult to please games wise - I would happily play a F1 manager game despite hating the sport.

Funny you mention the console dizzy_vee, I was going to put that in my last post but i forgot. Since i've learned to love linux (Mandrake 9.2) Ive learned to use the console far more. I rarely don't use it in a day. Linux would not work without it.

For linux to apply to newbies I think that programs like URPMI should be given a nice ui that can work in user mode rather than as root in the console. It took me a long time to understand the console but once you do its a great tool to have. I think if linux did become a more common desktop OS (which it should and can) then the console should still be there to add more functionality for people that want it but all of the main things should be able to be done from the GUI, just like the registry in windows.

I still pop into windows occaisionally and everytime i do I get increasingly frustrated. Its so SLOW and it crashes all the time and there is no XKill. I run KDE which is not nearly the fastest GUI (i've tried fluxbox-WOW zoom)and its still far faster than windows me. Ive head XP is slower.

Theres another thing windows users whould know - Linux shuts down successfully EVERY time.


orange400 04-16-2004 02:48 PM

I do have to agree with him though - I use linux as much as I can, but it is usually a pain in the ass when I do. Mostly cause I'm such a n00b. I know how to _use_ linux, but when it comes to actually _doing_ something with it, I struggle for a while before I figure out what the hell I am doing, and what kind of destructive path I left behind me in the process, lol. If I grew up using linux, I would be the grandmaster like I am with windows. If something rediculous like a corrupt driver error pops up, I know exactly what to do. Hell I can even fix that in DOS. I can even fix it remotely through a network or the internet - in DOS. I can fix it with my eyes closed ... almost. But with linux, if it's like "habababababa error" I think, 'I s**t, I'm f**ked.' If only I knew my way about the OS ... if only ... I could dominate it like I do with windows. But it's so different ... I just don't understand some things. So it's soooo difficult for me to do short of complex tasks in linux. I get most of X, but that's cause it's so similar to windows. You get the idea.

And I'm moving platforms for my FTP server from windows to linux ... damn ... it has taken me three days so far bust I think I'm getting the jist of it.

Nodin 04-21-2004 09:11 PM

Happen to come by this post searching for something else. As a newbie myself (as in 4 weeks exposure to Linux) I can see the frustration. I've asked a couple questions orginally here during a very frustrated state and was pleased to get such a cool level headed response from people even though I was probably a bit harsh.

As far as taking over windows well...Linux has the potential, unfortunately I think that most people who use and like linux and have the ability to change linux are so used to doing things via the command line and may not see the value of making things dummy proof that Windows and Apple try to do.

Think about it, what would the world be like if everyone who drove a car was required to get training to become a mechanic? Everyone's life should not start out having to become an expert at using a computer when some people should be learning to do more important things like medicine, law or sciences.

Ever see a Star Trek show where someone just asks the computer to do something and it simply does? This is the direction computers should be going.

I think that Linux more than any other OS out there actually has the potential with the world as it's developer to reach this step before anyone else if everyone would work towards this type of goal. (Not that people aren't, it's just that I honestly feel that ease of use does not always seem like a high priority and research into making easy stuff even easier seems very rare)

witeshark 04-22-2004 12:23 AM

These are good points, but learning to overcome the difficulties of an OS is as much fun to me as a video game :) I enjoyed overcoming the crap in doz until I saw how xp needs to allocate so much system resource to secure and stop virus that I had enough, and I would rather tinker with Linus distros for months until it works then look back at that windows thing ever again

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