I have been doing some research on Macintosh and I think that would be a great system to use that is user friendly and has an OS without viruses i'm guessing and is based on UNIX. I'm considering buying one next purchase so that I can dual boot LInux and Mac OS X. I see that will give me everything I need, Stability, No Viruses or Spyware, REALLY nice interface, and the ability to use linux for playing around in a more advanced environment. I really don't see a reason not to get a Mac except for the fact that some software isn't written for it but I can deal with that. I think a lot of linux software is looking to build software for the Mac for the business side of things. Example Transgaming.

I don't know why you guys have to be so cruel man hehe. He is just giving a detailed article about his opinion. Why must everybody be insulted everytime they speak their opinion? Just correct anything they may be wrong about and do it in a mature way.

LOL - HILLARIOUS
Nice work masonm!!!

With Fink and X11, you don't even need to dual-boot--you can run native Linux application in Mac OS X.

But you have money to buy winblows?
HP are starting to sell their PCs and some laptops with Ubuntu linux installed which I think is one of the most successful distros for home & office use. I want to see what windows users will do when they'll have to upgrade from XP to Vista, when XP will not be updated anymore... Are they going to switch to a Linux distro by simply installing it for free, or they'd rather prefer to buy a new PC with a linux distribution already installed.... or they'd spend a pile of money to buy Vista?!

About your article: Linux is just a kernel. You cannot say "I tried linux. It didn't work." There are different distributions based on this kernel which are meant for different purposes: servers, home use, industrial applications ... As an university student in industrial informatics in telecommunications I've tried it in these 3 areas...

Hope you'll have money for the Vista OS

Above average home user:
Pavel

Oh, so when linux has no support/poor support for my hardware, its their fault? Please... This is too funny. Linux is open source, magical, and godly. But yet windows is far easier to get hardware working than this manly Penguin OS?

Many people dont think that way. Some seem to think windows is the devil, and every mac and windows user are going to hell if they dont IMMEDIANTLY install linux. Just like someone mentioned before me, that I want to punch in the face. Cut out the windows bsod/worms/viruses/bashing BS.

My linux experiance was the same as the original poster in this thread. I consider myself a fairly seasoned dos and windows user. Ive been using windows and dos since the days of my 386 packard bell that came with windows 3.10.

I can set up streaming video, apache, ftp server, I can install drivers, I can troubleshoot problems, and much more in windows. When I installed fedora 4, I hit a wall before I even got started. Didnt detect my ethernet, didnt detect my sound card, it whined and complained about some initalization error after I installed my drivers, DHCP wont start, and it just pisses me off to no end.

How does anyone expect people to use linux, if even someone like myself, my friends, or the original poster cant get it to work.

Ive burned through a few pots of coffey already. I still want to get fedora working. All I want to do is use the damn internet, watch dvds, record video, and encode video into divx or something.

Is that so much to ask for? No, but it certianly isnt easy to learn how to get it done.

Ive had windows xp for a whopping four months. Before that, I had windows 95. I re-learned how to use windows in that short of time, without any serious headaches or keyboard pounding. My overall feeling of windows xp, is that it was an impressive improvement in stability over 98.

I tried linux years ago on my K5 that was running 95. it was some version of slackware, not sure which. It made me mad, and pound the keyboard. Fast forward to my amd athlon-64 bit, and its 80 gig hard drive. I load fedora 4 onto it, im impressed by the lovley GUI, and how it appears to be easier. I tried setting up a network card. I got it going. The wireless config utility wouldnt connect to any AP that I told it to, it would just randomly connect to anything. DHCP failed to start for some reason a few reboots later, my ethernet and wireless card now keep getting disabled every other minute.

Some things never change. Now before you get yourself worked up into a knot, I will be asking help through this forum. Maybe I will get it working, maybe not.

All Im saying, is linux is a pain in the ass to learn how to use. It installed easy as windows, the GUI looks even easier. But it still uses the same cryptic, confusing, cold, and unfriendly way of doing things.

abcdefg,

Is there a specific reason you chose to spread your own personal brand of "love" around today?

If you have not used Macintosh OS/X Tiger, it is very, very nice.

OS/X is, of course, based on Unix, and it is an excellent example of how the Unix/Linux framework can be made "consumer friendly." If you start probing beneath the attractive covers (which an ordinary OS/X user is never obliged to do), you will discover that the distribution has been carefully thought-out in a very security-minded way... without ever obliging the end-user to be aware of it.

As a simple example... a user who has "Administrator" privileges is still not root. No one, normally, is root. If you follow the stated advice and set up an Administrator for software-maintenance and a non-Administrator for ordinary day-to-day use of the machine, there will be three levels of access to the machine (root, admin, ordinary), one of which is not accessible to you or to anyone.

I think that there are definitely some lessons to be learned here for the Linux community. As Linux grows and expands in popularity in "non-server" circles, these issues of maintainability and usability will become ever-more important. Right now, these issues might be the number-one objection that is raised about Linux. The OS/X system certainly illustrates a well-thought-out commercial-grade approach to these issues. They can be adopted in "our" camp, and many of them should be.

And as a practical system ... ahem ... I believe the expression is, "OS/X rul-l-l-les!"

---

Now, as to the original post, and the recent follow-ups and so on, I do believe that we all need to start by accepting that many of the issues raised are legitimate, and that Linux in its present form and at the present time is not good enough yet at addressing these issues. If we "love Linux so much" that we refuse to acknowledge this, I believe, we are doing no real service to the Linux that we love. It does no good at all to take a "Linux, Linux, uber alles" approach here. Even though Linux may be "the greatest damn tool that a Geek has ever known," we still must come even-closer to the goal that "even your Grandmother can install it or reinstall it... successfully." We need to take these objections, in the original vein as stated in post #1, accept them, and implement "amazingly great" solutions for them.

Windows has very little support for hardware either, probably even less than the typical Linux distro. Luckily for Windows users manufacturers write drivers for their devices for Windows. So no Windows is not magical or godly or whatever you think it is.

Have you finished with your Linux bashing BS yet?

I can do all that just as easily, and in some cases even more easily, on my Linux box as I can on Windows. You just have to get used to Linux's slightly different way of doing things, eg to get streaming video working install mplayerplugin and win32codecs through your distro's package management system, don't goto real or apple and try to download a realplayer or quicktime player.

On most of the machines I installed it on it worked perfectly out of the box without needing any fiddling around or frustration. Unforunately its got a way to go still, but the problems you're having aren't the typical user experience, otherwise no one would bother using it at all.

I tried Fedora core4. I found it a step backward from FC3. I had no install problems with FC3, However FC4 fought me at every turn. I think you may have picked the wrong distro for a first retry. My current favorite is MEPIS, I have tried it on several computers, and it installed flawlessly each time.

abcdefg

So why are you even here? Why not just stick with windows? If Linux sucks so badly why are you wasting your time with it? Just use windows and be happy.

Personally, I've never had any problem with getting my hardware to work with Linux, and have no complaints about Linux (other than the never ending parade of windows fanboys trolling through the forums)

I think we have been had by the trolls under the bridge

Nice article, aysiu, I think that pretty much sums it up.

I also started back on DOS, you know what? It stunk. I think I am getting tired of sour grapes from frustrated "I-can-program-a-calculator" types. Being a mechanic as my primary job discription I know I cannot walk up to any car and deal with all it's ins and outs right away. I also know I cannot possibly know everything about every OS in a half an hour. I suggest some of these persons should build a PC from scratch and see just how "easy" it is to do a full XP install. Depending on your hardware it isn't, and calling tech support can be a new lesson in frustration. I like Linux, I like it to the point thats all I'd have if it were not for some Windows specific games and apps for work that are web based and will not even run in ANNYTHING except IE. When I begin to run a buisness of my own all the PCs wil run Linux. It just makes sense, it will lower my overhead costs for software and hardware. Eventualy I will get the annoyances worked out and get all my aps running under Linux, then it will be good bye Mr. Gates

OSX is the biggest stinking heap of steaming horse choad available on the market today. It's just as bad as Windows when it comes to crashing and security, and the release names are about as cute and novel as getting your tongue cut off with a dull razor. Don't even get me started on Mac hardware... those friggin' freaks...

Plain and simple, and I hate to point this out to you all...

LINUX DOESN'T GIVE A CRAP ABOUT YOUR 'DESKTOP OS' or marketshare of it's sales! It will be around a long time without worrying about if Company Brand X should write some half-assed drivers for it! Deal with it! THE POWER OF LINUX IS IN CLI - not some eye-candy popping 3-d crap - SO GET USED TO IT! FFS!

I installed SuSE 9.3 Pro. Plugged in a printer, digital 35mm negative scanner, flatbed scanner, and digital camera. I downloaded ftp://mirrors.kernel.org/suse/i386/9.3/boot/boot.iso
Burned it to a CD. Booted, did a network install (F3) I think. Got the full system up. I had to use Mac drivers for the negative scanner. They work, you just have to know how to get inside 'em. I use a mac drive for my monitor, too. I had to run a few commands for sane, which runs the scanners. Everything else was done. You can be a total moron, just like a Windows user, and still use linux. There is just one thing. Command line is ten times as fast the gui and mouse. most of the juicy stuff isn't gui. Pdf2txt is a command line program to extract everything out of a pdf file, and put it in an editable file. There is another program, txt2pdf to put the edited version back to pdf. But, if you're a mouse monkee, you won't be doing that.

I want a Corvette, V-8, 350 c.i., manual 5 speed transmission. I know it takes a little time with the car, but it's worth it. Women drive 4 cylinder auto tranny cars, but they usually have nice paint, and a carfreshener hanging from the rear view mirror. She's got XP. Guess what I have? A hot Linux box is like a classy woman and my Corvette to match. She is Linux, and she runs on Corvette hardware. If you can only find the car keys, you're going all the way.