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Old 08-02-2021, 01:14 PM   #31
business_kid
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sundialsvcs
When I was in school, using a calculator on math homework was cheating. This taught you how to check your own work without assistance.
Me too. Approximation was and still is a terribly useful skill.
 
Old 08-03-2021, 12:23 AM   #32
Michael Uplawski
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sundialsvcs View Post
My dad was probably also left-handed and was "forced" to learn how to write "properly," which he eventually did – becoming ambidextrous. I'm left-handed and I simply learned to write that way. No, I never used "left-handed scissors."
Thank you for being quicker than me. I wanted to write about a girl who was forced to write with the right hand. In diverting from the original question we get to the heart of the matter... You cannot easily derive global statements from individual cases; it is done in Math but there is no place for Math in this.

Let people write in the way they arrive best but give them a chance to cope with the absence of advanced technology.

Wading knee-deep in cables and screens, we lose sight of the necessities of life. In a programming course, we got accustomed to using MS Visual Studio. I am convinced that many of the people who learned C++ with me, had not understood what code is. When I proposed a scriptable HTML-Editor for simplification, I did not realize that some of my colleagues then downright lost the ability to write HTML in a normal editor and declared unable to respond to the assignments during an exam. I was not proud, but learned an important lesson at that moment.

I am not even off-topic... PFFFFfff. I am working at it.

Last edited by Michael Uplawski; 08-03-2021 at 12:26 AM.
 
Old 08-03-2021, 04:37 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Uplawski View Post
Wading knee-deep in cables and screens, we lose sight of the necessities of life. In a programming course, we got accustomed to using MS Visual Studio. I am convinced that many of the people who learned C++ with me, had not understood what code is.
I was amazed to learn that what is taught to children these days as "coding" involves moving coloured shapes around and linking them together. The shapes represent logical structures such as loops but they never see the actual computer code that lies behind them. But, to get back on track, that way of learning actually benefits children who are dyslexic. Whereas traditional methods penalised neurodiverse children and that was really just as bad as forcing left-handed kids to write with their right hand.

I still think the way we were taught was better for most children but maybe there's room for alternatives for those who can benefit from them.
 
Old 08-03-2021, 04:56 AM   #34
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In the days of fountain pens, there was a kind of logic to encouraging kids who could to write right handed.

The logic was that as we write left-->right, the point of the nib trails the pen, and the nib works well. OTOH when a left handed person writes left-->right, the point of the nib leads the pen, tries to dig into the page, and the motion impedes proper letter formation and speed. I was of the generation when using calculators was cheating, one had to show one's rough-work, and use a fountain pen for all homework. I even had to wear a stupid looking school cap, but perhaps that's just because I was sent to a 'posh' school.
 
Old 08-03-2021, 05:06 AM   #35
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Believe it or not, we used nib pens and inkpots. But you could use your own fountain pen if you brought it in. Biros were forbidden. Of course what it meant in practice was that our work was full of blots. I question whether that improved our handwriting. I couldn't write decently until I reached the fifth year and was allowed to use a ballpoint.
 
Old 08-03-2021, 12:19 PM   #36
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I went to school in the fountain pen age. I hated the things, my writing was terrible and still is. Teachers would quote that old "spider dipped its leg in the inkwell line" and at the time that wasn't very motivating.

Back then there was no recognition of the "autism spectrum", so although I was a prolific reader and speller from an early, I was "relegated" to a lower group due to handwriting.

I lack rose tinted eye wear - and on the whole I believe the education standard my son has had is better than the one I had. The political correctness annoys me at times but thats the trade off. I remember teachers who called black children "sambo" and made jokes about bananas, etc.
 
Old 08-04-2021, 02:20 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hazel View Post
Believe it or not, we used nib pens and inkpots. But you could use your own fountain pen if you brought it in. Biros were forbidden. Of course what it meant in practice was that our work was full of blots...
I remember my work matching my clothes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hazel View Post
...I question whether that improved our handwriting. I couldn't write decently until I reached the fifth year and was allowed to use a ballpoint.
Interesting, my handwriting worsened when we were allowed Biros, but Mum was pretty insistent that my future was ballpointed. Many years later I went back to using a fountain pen and found that my writing became much more legible.
 
Old 08-04-2021, 10:26 AM   #38
sundialsvcs
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You can still buy fountain pens which have ink in a disposable cartridge. I had no difficulty using them in my left hand. They've lately become rather hard to find, but I still like them.
 
Old 08-08-2021, 04:46 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hazel View Post
Coordination isn't everything. I was always clumsy, bad at games and my handwriting was lousy too. It wasn't the result of staring at screens (we're talking about the 1950s) but of spending every spare moment with my nose in a book. Should we perhaps discourage young children from reading?
Yes, and reading requires you to learn that skill first. In other words, you were a clumsy school kid. What did you do before that?

Most electronic interfaces (phones, tablets) are specifically designed to require no or very minimal skills, and could be considered "suitable" for preschool children, just like jelly babies could be considered suitable nutrition for small children, because it's easily digestible...

And that was my argument: preschoolers need to learn other things first:
Quote:
Originally Posted by ondoho View Post
And many electronic devices seriously interfere with that on so many levels.
Both in finer motoric skills and children's general need to just move around - by giving them the illusion of moving around in a game world.
For preschool children all this is poison, and it doesn't start being helpful the moment they start school.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not opposed to children using electronic devices in education or otherwise, but supervised and in small amounts (of time) and not in the way I've seen it done over and over.
I probably should have stressed that I'm talking about simplified (mobile,touch) UIs specifically.
 
Old 08-08-2021, 04:56 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ondoho View Post
Yes, and reading requires you to learn that skill first. In other words, you were a clumsy school kid. What did you do before that?
I'm not sure when I first learned to read. I know that I could already do so when I started primary school. We had arithmetic textbooks with pairs of figures and "Add" or "Take away" at the top of the page. The other children used to come to me and ask what they were supposed to do with the numbers on the page. I got tired of telling them so finally I said, "If it's a short word, you add. If it's long, you take away." Actually, now that I come to think of it, that's not far off the word-guessing method that was so prevalent in the 60's.
 
Old 08-24-2021, 05:10 AM   #41
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Given the documented effects of social media on human behaviour, I personally think kids shouldn't be allowed internet access before the age of 14.
 
  


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