LinuxQuestions.org
Review your favorite Linux distribution.
Go Back   LinuxQuestions.org > Forums > Non-*NIX Forums > General
User Name
Password
General This forum is for non-technical general discussion which can include both Linux and non-Linux topics. Have fun!

Notices


Reply
  Search this Thread
Old 08-10-2020, 05:25 AM   #46
hazel
Senior Member
 
Registered: Mar 2016
Location: Harrow, UK
Distribution: LFS, AntiX, Slackware
Posts: 4,628
Blog Entries: 12

Rep: Reputation: 2633Reputation: 2633Reputation: 2633Reputation: 2633Reputation: 2633Reputation: 2633Reputation: 2633Reputation: 2633Reputation: 2633Reputation: 2633Reputation: 2633

Quote:
Originally Posted by grumpyskeptic View Post
Edit: except for Belarus, see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_Belarus

I have never heard of it before, or at least only barely. I never imagined that there was a country between Poland and Russia. I would have thought that countries like that were between the Black and Caspian seas.
You never heard of it because it wasn't a separate country when we were growing up. Like the Ukraine, it was a part of the USSR. It was called Belorussia then.
 
Old 08-10-2020, 06:33 AM   #47
wpeckham
Senior Member
 
Registered: Apr 2010
Location: Continental USA
Distribution: Debian, Ubuntu, Fedora, RedHat, DSL, Puppy, CentOS, Knoppix, Mint-DE, Sparky, Vsido, tinycore, Q4OS
Posts: 3,421

Rep: Reputation: 1485Reputation: 1485Reputation: 1485Reputation: 1485Reputation: 1485Reputation: 1485Reputation: 1485Reputation: 1485Reputation: 1485Reputation: 1485
Quote:
Originally Posted by grumpyskeptic View Post
Surely everyone is better off if countries are friendly competitors rather than competitive enemies.
Perhaps, but in Russia students are taught, and the philosophy of the government is, that all competition, diplomacy, business and combat are all like colors of a spectrum, that everything is war. There are good historical reasons why this is so, and it is a philosophy that is difficult to change since it serves them well enough to be somewhat self supporting.
 
Old 08-11-2020, 02:52 AM   #48
ondoho
LQ Addict
 
Registered: Dec 2013
Posts: 15,294
Blog Entries: 9

Rep: Reputation: 4376Reputation: 4376Reputation: 4376Reputation: 4376Reputation: 4376Reputation: 4376Reputation: 4376Reputation: 4376Reputation: 4376Reputation: 4376Reputation: 4376
Quote:
Originally Posted by grumpyskeptic View Post
There's some very bad sh!t going down right now (and possibly during every election in the past 24 years) - they need some international attention. Yesterday I heard that the EU is taking an officially critical stance to the election outcome, as well as some of the neighbouring states themselves (not Russia of course). Hopefully this results in some sort of action.

Thanks hazel for spotting that added information.

Quote:
Originally Posted by grumpyskeptic View Post
I have never heard of it before, or at least only barely. I never imagined that there was a country between Poland and Russia. I would have thought that countries like that were between the Black and Caspian seas.
Once again, it just shows how little you know about the larger topic at hand.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hazel View Post
You never heard of it because it wasn't a separate country when we were growing up. Like the Ukraine, it was a part of the USSR. It was called Belorussia then.
But that goes for many more countries around Russia!

I heard an interview with the writer of a book called Putin's Trolls yesterday. Good stuff, brave woman - she's now getting trolled herself, amongst others from the Finnish right-wing populist party...
If you're wondering what that's about: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_web_brigades

Yes, there's some very evil sh!t happening in Russia, with government approval and global effect.

This statement does NOT contradict the stance I have taken in this thread so far.
 
Old 08-11-2020, 03:01 AM   #49
ondoho
LQ Addict
 
Registered: Dec 2013
Posts: 15,294
Blog Entries: 9

Rep: Reputation: 4376Reputation: 4376Reputation: 4376Reputation: 4376Reputation: 4376Reputation: 4376Reputation: 4376Reputation: 4376Reputation: 4376Reputation: 4376Reputation: 4376
Quote:
Originally Posted by wpeckham View Post
but in Russia students are taught, and the philosophy of the government is, that all competition, diplomacy, business and combat are all like colors of a spectrum, that everything is war.
This is an extremely bold and broad statement about the population of a whole country, can you please back that somehow?

You are refering to history; I agree that the former totalitarian regime still has an influence on Russia's politics and possibly everyday life, but even that wasn't all about war.

FWIW, I don't think that "students are taught (...) that everything is war." in Russia today.
 
Old 08-11-2020, 12:37 PM   #50
Geist
Member
 
Registered: Jul 2013
Distribution: Slackware 14 / current
Posts: 435

Rep: Reputation: Disabled
Just as a sidenote or something.
If the US is these, slave drivers and colonists, etc...

Then Russia should never let their guard down, lest they get civil proxy war'd like that, too.

"You know, you American guys are alright, helping with WW2 and all, but, and I know nobody of you currently alive could really have done anything, but...
You're quite evil and racists and colonists and slavers and you're also white supremacist nazis, too. Thanks for coming to my TED talk."
 
Old 08-11-2020, 02:07 PM   #51
rtmistler
Moderator
 
Registered: Mar 2011
Location: USA
Distribution: MINT Debian, Angstrom, SUSE, Ubuntu, Debian
Posts: 8,901
Blog Entries: 13

Rep: Reputation: 4029Reputation: 4029Reputation: 4029Reputation: 4029Reputation: 4029Reputation: 4029Reputation: 4029Reputation: 4029Reputation: 4029Reputation: 4029Reputation: 4029
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geist View Post
Just as a sidenote or something.
If the US is these, slave drivers and colonists, etc...

Then Russia should never let their guard down, lest they get civil proxy war'd like that, too.

"You know, you American guys are alright, helping with WW2 and all, but, and I know nobody of you currently alive could really have done anything, but...
You're quite evil and racists and colonists and slavers and you're also white supremacist nazis, too. Thanks for coming to my TED talk."
Without catching up on the whole thread, and etc. What exactly are you saying here? Some intended joke or play on words? A copy of some infamous quote? Or are you literally calling members of a country racists, colonists, slavers, white supremacist nazis?
 
Old 08-11-2020, 02:10 PM   #52
Geist
Member
 
Registered: Jul 2013
Distribution: Slackware 14 / current
Posts: 435

Rep: Reputation: Disabled
Quote:
Originally Posted by rtmistler View Post
Without catching up on the whole thread, and etc. What exactly are you saying here? Some intended joke or play on words? A copy of some infamous quote? Or are you literally calling members of a country racists, colonists, slavers, white supremacist nazis?
Americans, especiall white ones, are, considered, by other Americans, all the things I've listed above, to various degrees.

Despite America beating the nazis (well, with others, but the point stands), abolishing slavery and well, colonialism kind of ended some time ago, too.
Long enough for most, if not all people today to be innocent of it.

I would call modern Americans no such thing, but apparently the US is full of people guilty of the above.

Therefore, I would recommend Russia to watch out, because even "being good guys" (aka not communists) doesn't mean much if the right, or wrong people start slinging poo on a (inter)national scale.

Last edited by Geist; 08-11-2020 at 02:11 PM.
 
Old 08-11-2020, 02:21 PM   #53
rtmistler
Moderator
 
Registered: Mar 2011
Location: USA
Distribution: MINT Debian, Angstrom, SUSE, Ubuntu, Debian
Posts: 8,901
Blog Entries: 13

Rep: Reputation: 4029Reputation: 4029Reputation: 4029Reputation: 4029Reputation: 4029Reputation: 4029Reputation: 4029Reputation: 4029Reputation: 4029Reputation: 4029Reputation: 4029
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geist View Post
I would call modern Americans no such thing, but apparently the US is full of people guilty of the above.
Are you talking from firsthand experience? There are bad apples the world around. Advice formerly given to me, "Don't reach conclusions from assumptions until you walk in someone's shoes, or at the very least alongside them." But you're free to hold your opinions. I'll stay out of it, except to note that literally calling a set of people all those nasty terms is pretty bad.
 
Old 08-11-2020, 02:27 PM   #54
Geist
Member
 
Registered: Jul 2013
Distribution: Slackware 14 / current
Posts: 435

Rep: Reputation: Disabled
Quote:
Originally Posted by rtmistler View Post
Are you talking from firsthand experience? There are bad apples the world around. Advice formerly given to me, "Don't reach conclusions from assumptions until you walk in someone's shoes, or at the very least alongside them." But you're free to hold your opinions. I'll stay out of it, except to note that literally calling a set of people all those nasty terms is pretty bad.
I wouldn't even know the term "white supremacism" without the US...so, yeah.
Edit: Or hate speech.

Or a lot of those other things. ("White" ...I don't think that term is used by anyone in the west except in the US, etc )

(Technically "nazi" is a term invented by the allies too, but ...y'know)

Last edited by Geist; 08-11-2020 at 02:34 PM.
 
Old 08-11-2020, 06:33 PM   #55
wpeckham
Senior Member
 
Registered: Apr 2010
Location: Continental USA
Distribution: Debian, Ubuntu, Fedora, RedHat, DSL, Puppy, CentOS, Knoppix, Mint-DE, Sparky, Vsido, tinycore, Q4OS
Posts: 3,421

Rep: Reputation: 1485Reputation: 1485Reputation: 1485Reputation: 1485Reputation: 1485Reputation: 1485Reputation: 1485Reputation: 1485Reputation: 1485Reputation: 1485
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geist View Post
Just as a sidenote or something.
If the US is these, slave drivers and colonists, etc...

Then Russia should never let their guard down, lest they get civil proxy war'd like that, too.

"You know, you American guys are alright, helping with WW2 and all, but, and I know nobody of you currently alive could really have done anything, but...
You're quite evil and racists and colonists and slavers and you're also white supremacist nazis, too. Thanks for coming to my TED talk."
I admit, we have some of that. What the REST of the world needs to remember is WE hate, and are trying to fix, that ALSO!
I thought we won that fight in the 1960s, but it seems the stupid survived and came back on us.

Last edited by wpeckham; 08-11-2020 at 06:35 PM.
 
Old 08-12-2020, 01:39 AM   #56
ondoho
LQ Addict
 
Registered: Dec 2013
Posts: 15,294
Blog Entries: 9

Rep: Reputation: 4376Reputation: 4376Reputation: 4376Reputation: 4376Reputation: 4376Reputation: 4376Reputation: 4376Reputation: 4376Reputation: 4376Reputation: 4376Reputation: 4376
I believe what Geist is trying to say is "but the USA are also bad".
I was itching to write sth like that in every other post I contributed here, but I (think I mostly) abstained because
  • it's childish
  • no generalisation is good
  • it would draw the discussion away from the topic at hand
 
Old 08-12-2020, 05:04 AM   #57
Geist
Member
 
Registered: Jul 2013
Distribution: Slackware 14 / current
Posts: 435

Rep: Reputation: Disabled
Quote:
Originally Posted by ondoho View Post
I believe what Geist is trying to say is "but the USA are also bad".
Not really, my point is that the US shows that being the good guy, and doing good, means nothing the moment you have an element inside the country that wages (a civil media/propaganda) war against its own people.
Bringing up things from the past very few people today can do much about, and if they can, then the way it was and is done is still needlessly hostile.

And I also don't think that this is a small movement, otherwise a single black man (Floyd) couldn't have been pushed so hard that even places like Japan went all BLM about him.
(And Japan isn't really known for it's African/Japanese machinations, aka, they vast majority don't really care, they look at most foreigners suspiciously )

Hate speech, another invention of the US, has also been super prevalent on that front.
In fact, I cannot prove it, so I won't claim it for sure on this instance, BUT, I wouldn't be surprised if a change in German constitutinonal law from, what was it, 2014? 2015 pertaining to this kind of topic (incitement toward hatred/discrimination ,etc ) was made more 'generic', to the extent that you can pretty much make anything sound offensive and therefore worthy of getting 'had' for it.


And I realize that a lot of Americans are not actually like this (That's why I said that I would never call Americans any of that), but that only makes it worse.
To think that minority movements have this much media and cultural clout to drum up images like this, that have world wide waves.

And that's why I wouldn't be able to resent anyone who would still appear 'hostile' against the US, still behave like 'enemies', distrustful, etc.

If a nation of what should be heroes can be internally media warred like this, to the extent that an entire majority of it can now be the same thing they fought against (for no good reason if you ask me ).
Then why join their ranks?

Especially if the US is one of the former enemies of the nation.

Why would Russia be chummy with the US when being friends with the US can make you nazisupremacistcolonizerslavedrivers?
When the nation itself can be globally (mis)represented like that.


Not just internationally but internally, where regular folk have to endure RIOTs and actual civil 'splittage' (I'd call it the 2 party system being never as divisive as before, where it really now seems it's "hateful bigot xenophobes despots" vs " the good guys" ) like...well I can't say never before, but its BADLY split.

And sure, I am not in America, I am not American but ...to the topic at hand, which is an international, an external topic, about how foreigners are hostile, or at least , dodgy and not chummy...I think that does have some modicum of relevance.

And I consider myself someone who is quite friendly to the US, despite all the reasons I could (and in some instances do ) have to not be chummy.

(Again, I myself, like many Germans, have some revanchism against the US, but I don't let that dictate myself. I think I, overall, for myself, kept my mind pretty good to not be one of the US hating cultists, and, again, ( I mentioned it in another thread) I have actually kind of a love for it, and if I didn't love Germany more, then I'd actually move to the US (although it would have to be somewhere mucho flyover and whatnot. The region around Montana , etc)

But yeah, the US was a former enemy of Russia, not just WW2, but the cold war too, and then, things finally came around a little, and now it's the whole "you know" thing.
I don't wanna call it SJW because those are a symptom, not the disease, or at least not the main disease...butthasneitherherenorthere, they're easy to hate but the soil for them to germinate needed and needs preparation and upkeep by others.
These otherwise small fry would never have made it into any sort of meaningful positions without allies/benefactors in higher echelons and the media.
(Edit: "you know" in this case really means "you (probably) know what I'm talking about." I just don't have a good name for it. But "you know what I'm talking about" etc)

Also, they're also just a minority, but again thanks to media and actual government executive actions they do have more influence than they should.

So yeah...
You could be the hero, you could be the US, but then there's some people inside you who have the means and the drive and intention to muck it all up.

My point is not that 'everyone is mean' cause, yeah, that's true.
My point is, on this topic, "why Russia is still acting like an enemy (to the US)" ...

Why wouldn't they? They're like this, and thanks to post WW2 they have had boots on the mainland Europe through Germany.
Can you really blame them?

Edit2:
And I don't think the solution is to beg and scrape "Please believe us good sirs, we are good! We try!"
Yes, you are actually good. Yes, you actually do try. That's why I (personally) like America and Americans.

But again, if this can all be ruined, to the extent that you HAVE to prove yourself all over again, needlessly, through internal means.
That a majority who is good, can be misrepresented as bad...then yeah.

You won't be able to have peace by trying to prove that you're good. You already did that, several times, and you're the bad guys now anyway.

So yeah, who WOULD want to touch the US with any sort of pole of any length, unless they're considered "crazy" like I would be.
I get shamed sometimes for liking Americans as much as I do. Not even joking. Thanks to this situation people like I, who should be the norm, are the minority, all thanks to the whole 'situation'.

And I would go, perhaps as far, as to say that that makes me kind of a reflection of Americans in America.
Where people are starting to doubt themselves and submit to that...like some sort of weird self gaslighting or something (I realize the term gaslighting has become a bit of a meme)

But yeah, I can't blame anyone "normal" to resent the US. It's tragic, and I disagree but I could also actually be lumped into a camp of evil for it, BY AMERICANS.
(Since those who drum up all this are Americans, too)

By loving America, I could be, thanks to America, be evil and bigoted for it. Just...just let that melt on your tongue. Or whatever an idiom in English would be.

Stuff that in the pipe and smoke it? I don't know, let it sink in. Yeah, that one.

Last edited by Geist; 08-12-2020 at 05:22 AM.
 
Old 08-12-2020, 05:29 AM   #58
Hermani
Member
 
Registered: Apr 2018
Location: Delden, NL
Distribution: Ubuntu
Posts: 208
Blog Entries: 2

Rep: Reputation: 87
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geist View Post
Americans, especiall white ones, are, considered, by other Americans, all the things I've listed above, to various degrees. (...) I would call modern Americans no such thing, but apparently the US is full of people guilty of the above.
From my standpoint, it is the "modern Americans" themselves that consider themselves all these things. A friend of mine (who has a skin with a slightly darker tone than mine) once told me she only encountered racism in the words of her "sisters in the US" who kept talking about "oppression by the man".

I hope one day the 'Mericans will keep this sh*t to themselves instead of projecting it onto the rest of the world.
 
Old 08-14-2020, 08:24 PM   #59
jamison20000e
Senior Member
 
Registered: Nov 2005
Location: ...uncanny valley... infinity\1975; (randomly born:) Milwaukee, WI, US( + travel,) Earth( I wish,) END BORDER$!◣◢┌∩┐ Fe26-E,e...
Distribution: any GPL that works well on my cheapest; has been KDE or CLI but open... http://goo.gl/NqgqJx &c ;-)
Posts: 4,002
Blog Entries: 3

Rep: Reputation: 1359Reputation: 1359Reputation: 1359Reputation: 1359Reputation: 1359Reputation: 1359Reputation: 1359Reputation: 1359Reputation: 1359Reputation: 1359
Only human(.)s talk $h!t!

Try Aquaponics...

Last edited by jamison20000e; 08-14-2020 at 08:26 PM.
 
Old 08-15-2020, 07:42 AM   #60
wpeckham
Senior Member
 
Registered: Apr 2010
Location: Continental USA
Distribution: Debian, Ubuntu, Fedora, RedHat, DSL, Puppy, CentOS, Knoppix, Mint-DE, Sparky, Vsido, tinycore, Q4OS
Posts: 3,421

Rep: Reputation: 1485Reputation: 1485Reputation: 1485Reputation: 1485Reputation: 1485Reputation: 1485Reputation: 1485Reputation: 1485Reputation: 1485Reputation: 1485
Quote:
Originally Posted by jamison20000e View Post
Only human(.)s talk $h!t!
Seriously? You think that? You have NOT heard my cat!
 
  


Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
[SOLVED] Terminal on Linux Mint 17.1 version behaving like actual terminator animal in Terminator movie chanikya Linux - Newbie 1 03-16-2016 03:09 PM
LXer: XCOM: Enemy Unknown, With The Enemy Within Expansion Reviewed On Linux LXer Syndicated Linux News 0 02-13-2015 01:42 AM
DIG, why it's behaving like this... LucL Linux - Networking 2 03-10-2011 03:14 PM
OSS != Communism vxc69 General 33 05-22-2007 03:03 AM
LXer: GNU and Communism--Labeling for the Dumb and the Dumber LXer Syndicated Linux News 0 01-14-2006 07:01 PM

LinuxQuestions.org > Forums > Non-*NIX Forums > General

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:16 AM.

Main Menu
Advertisement
My LQ
Write for LQ
LinuxQuestions.org is looking for people interested in writing Editorials, Articles, Reviews, and more. If you'd like to contribute content, let us know.
Main Menu
Syndicate
RSS1  Latest Threads
RSS1  LQ News
Twitter: @linuxquestions
Open Source Consulting | Domain Registration