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Old 02-15-2024, 06:34 AM   #76
business_kid
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I've no gripe with you. I just didn't want this interesting subject disappearing down the rabbit hole of a political argument.
 
Old 02-18-2024, 06:56 AM   #77
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Originally Posted by _blackhole_ View Post
Starmer and "New Labour" (The "Blairite" faction) are not "socialist". They are the centrist, right leaning element which subverted the Labour party during the 1990s and which consists of some wealthy high profile Labour MPs and peers. ...................Whether you get the Tories again or Starmer/TBI Labour (in a repeat of '97), you will still be getting capitalism, so you can rest easy...
That seems like the No True Scotsman fallacy. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman

A day or two ago I saw on the news the Scottish Labour Party singing The Red Flag anthem. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Red_Flag The English Labour Party used to routinely sing it as well, but have either stopped singing it or not so often. I think singing The Red Flag means they are a socialist party.

When or if Labour wins I hope they will re-introduce the ten per-cent capital gains tax rate that Gordon Brown (or in actuality a team of advisors I presume) had.

And they could make every kind of long-term investment taxed like a pension for people over retirement age, not just a narrow range of them.

Last edited by grumpyskeptic; 02-29-2024 at 07:45 AM.
 
Old 02-29-2024, 08:00 AM   #78
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Originally Posted by grumpyskeptic View Post
....Stalin's doctrine of....
See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intens...nder_socialism

Also https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Excess..._Joseph_Stalin

Like a lot of dysfunctional organizations and bad leaders, they are/were primarily concerned with being dominant, and productive work is just something they do in their spare time.

Perhaps we still have echos of dekulakisation in the UK https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dekulakization where the wealthy are regraded as bad people, instead of economic heroes providing jobs products and services to society.

Last edited by grumpyskeptic; 03-03-2024 at 05:25 AM.
 
Old 02-29-2024, 09:29 AM   #79
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There are a few requirements for unlimited growth, and one of those is unlimited resource. The UK has limited resource. Stagnation can be avoided by connecting to remote resources and resource sharing, but Brexit has limited the previously established channels and they have not fully been replaced causing development blockage.

Some remediation that allows for expanding economy can be experienced with expanding population. The fast way to expand population is to allow more immigration, but that seems unpopular right now.

With all of the EASY ways to expand and develop the economy blocked, there is nothing left but the slow and difficult ways. Luckily the UK populations have a long history of experience with using long, slow ways to expand instead of faster or easier ones.

On the bright side, at least the UK does not share a border with Russia.

Yet.
 
Old 03-25-2024, 11:29 PM   #80
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Originally Posted by grumpyskeptic View Post
None of them have been underweight, the majority of them have been overweight. I read somewhere recently that 60% of the UK population receive more in benefits than they pay in taxes, and only 40% pay more in taxes than they receive in benefits. Of course if you are on benefits and you smoke, drink, gamble, keep dogs, drive a car, have a lot of subscriptions etc, then you are going to be short of money. Benefits are a ratchet as vote-seeking politicians do not dare lower them or make the eligibility criteria less generous.


Have we all got to be impoverished because politicians think a few voters might suffer from financial envy?
While what you're saying is basically true, it's also got some errors to fix.

1) Being overweight is still a sign of poverty: Metabolic dysfunction. MOST people have some form of metabolic disease, such as insulin resistance. You don't need to do a muscle biopsy to confirm. If you're poor, you're just not eating as well. Partly, that's food quality. Partly, that's because you just don't know. UK processed food is full of sugar, seedoils and preservatives, only the USA has more of this. The oil slowly kills mitochrondria. The preservatives destroy the microbiome. I shouldn't need to state the obvious that processed food kills people.

Why do these people eat that food?
Can we have some sympathy here? I took a trip back to the UK a while ago a surveyed the shelves. By god, probablt HALF of EVERYTHING in the supermarket had oil added. It's in bread and pies for goodness sake!

It's tough on the breadline to really prioritise this kind of thing.

2) Occupational outlook (borrowing this term from occupational therapy). It's hard to imagine why someone would spend thier only $2 on a McDonald's burger, Sky TV, or a can of booze. But all those things take away the pain for a while. People need to feel in control of something, even if just for a moment. Sleep rough on the streets or go in with the crackheads in a shelter? The difference is that you've got some control on the streets. Some choices.

I'm doing alright at the moment after having left the UK, but I always wonder what I'd do if somebody sued me into debt. Could I get back on my feet? Could you? George Orwell slept rough for his research...

----
Since you got into cultural stuff, criticising the UK, I can go there. But lets think about more obvious and basic things. The UK has been printing money for years like nobody's business. To fly past all the waffle and lies, just plot GBP against gold, silver, pretty much anything if you remember it's relative, not absolute. Now compare to previous years, or other currencies. The money machine destroys countries throughout history. It's the same thing here. Then we've got all the spending on COVID. Had to be seen to be doing something. It's harder to show jabs and isolating causing more deaths than they save. This is really basic. I don't blame the rich or the poor. Nobody's in control.

But culture...
well, there's been a breakdown of religion. The UK used to be religious. Now the UK hates religion. You'd think science and rationality would be a good thing but it's also replaced the humility of Christian culture with arrogance. UK people are more arrogant than those backward bible bashing nations we love to look down on. Specifically, you see the results of this arrogance in British politics.
Then there's the change in family structure. Poor marriage laws between sexes have weaken the family unit. It's a shame to say, but all the controversy around gender, sex, and these other cultural underpinnings changing has to be in some way destabilising. As things get crappy, people turn to extremism; communism around the corner already in heavy socialism; equality over equity. None of this is good for stability. Stability is what brings growth.



...
In the end, AI will lead to people feeling totally useless. That alone will destabilise the sensitive global system required to keep it going (i.e. Taiwan semiconductors). That will cause a collapse and everything we know, slowly but surely go to the dark ages, much like the fall of Rome, the bronze age collapse, Stonehendge society return to nomadic lifestyle etc etc. Technologies will be lost. Wars will be fought. Many will die. It makes sense to build a pyramid to communicate some kind of message to the future, but nobody else seems able to think long term, yet positively?
 
Old 03-28-2024, 12:00 AM   #81
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I heard Fareed Zakaria on the radio this morning. He observed that the UK's per capita GDP is lower than any state in the US.
Wealth is created by productive labor. Get more people working, make them more productive.
 
  


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