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Old 10-29-2010, 11:03 AM   #31
jay73
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The British are law abiding, the French have a tradition of legitimised violence started by the Revolution.
How many examples of that "legitimised violence" can you quote apart from the repression following the French Revolution? Did it really make more victims than the Civil War in Britain? And how would you qualify British carnages in India (Amritsar, ...), South Africa (Boer War, first concentration camps in history, ...), etc. other than as exported "legitimised violence"? Or how about the excellent reputation of so many British tourists? There are places in Southern Europe where (younger) British tourists are now banned because of their law abiding skills...

Quote:
France has big unions
Wrong. Most workers do not belong to unions. And more importantly, there is no pay during strikes; if you strike, you pay out of your own pocket. http://flipchartfairytales.wordpress...-trade-unions/ explains that Britain has actually four times as many union members as France.

Quote:
many of which were founded by the communists
Exactly one. And the communists have been a marginal phenomenon for the last twenty five years.

Quote:
and all of which like to demonstrate their muscle. Maybe in the USA you seldom hear about it, but throwing up barricades happens in France every year!
Seriously? The last major strikes date back to my student days (I was studying French at the time) and that was in the early nineties, as the educational system was undergoing major reforms. Oddly, whenever I visit London, I have to take a cab because public transports appear to be striking again...
 
Old 10-29-2010, 11:40 AM   #32
DavidMcCann
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jay73 View Post
How many examples of that "legitimised violence" can you quote apart from the repression following the French Revolution? Did it really make more victims than the Civil War in Britain? And how would you qualify British carnages in India (Amritsar, ...), South Africa (Boer War, first concentration camps in history, ...), etc. other than as exported "legitimised violence"?
If we're going to start referring to tendentious interpretations of century-old history, I'm tempted to make some comments on the Belgian track record in the Congo! But I shan't even tell any of those jokes they tell in France and the Netherlands...
 
Old 10-29-2010, 11:47 AM   #33
jay73
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I'm tempted to make some comments on the Belgian track record in the Congo!
Well, do. Just last week a Belgian author was awarded a major literary prize in the Netherlands for yet another history of the "Belgian" Congo. You didn't really think we are living in a state of denial, did you?

And after all, I introduced British history only to deflate your wild claims about France. I don't see how your reference to the Congo deflates my "tendentious interpretations" of British history.

Last edited by jay73; 10-29-2010 at 12:25 PM.
 
Old 10-31-2010, 02:09 PM   #34
theKbStockpiler
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Stand and fight today or wither and die tomorrow.

American's have given in ;or been sold out, so many times that we/they can only negotiate from a point of weakness. It amounts to if we/they capitulate and take less willingly we/they won't lose as much as by force. Americans are bullied by our government that is financed by the wealthy. The majority of Americans are a slave to their government because they have given up their responsibility to control their own destiny. We/they can't take a day off to protest because we/they can't go without the pay and risk being terminated. We/they have already negotiated our means to protect freedom away. If we/they had a backbone and the volition of the French we/they would not have the mega-wealthy that don't contribute to society. The America people are in a vise that will lead them to destruction parallel to Germany ;Nazi and all, from the 1940's.

Last edited by theKbStockpiler; 10-31-2010 at 02:14 PM.
 
Old 10-31-2010, 03:35 PM   #35
impert
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xxxx
Why can't you delete your own posts here? Hit the tab key by accident, and bang! it's posted.

Last edited by impert; 10-31-2010 at 03:38 PM. Reason: Hit the tab key by accident, and bang! it's posted.
 
Old 10-31-2010, 04:25 PM   #36
impert
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I'll try again.
There's too much nonsense on this thread for a full reply. Only one post that I can see from someone who actually lives in France, and who might know what's going on. And what is that? Not very much at all.

The streets are NOT flowing with blood. There will NOT be a revolution tomorrow. There were no bombs last night in my district, and the wine has not lost its taste.
There have been strikes, certainly. There was a mild shortage of fuel - queues at some service stations, some ran dry. Some trains did not run (most did). A few tyres got burned in front of barricades (I wish they'd stop that), but all in all, it was pretty much a ho-hum affair.

We're told the French are not facing up to reality. To many of them, the reality is that something that was theirs a little while ago has been taken away by a stroke of the pen. In effect, they have worked for years on the basis of a contract of sorts between them and the government, and now, through no fault of theirs, the government has reneged on the deal. They are pissed off - who wouldn't be? They are pissed off with Sarkozy - but he has done a great deal to earn it, and anyway, in what country are people happy with their leaders for long?

It's true, there is a problem with the national debt and with government spending - as there is in most countries at the moment. But the time to address this problem was years ago. We've known for years that there was going to be a problem when the baby-boomers reached retirement age. Here and pretty much everywhere else, nothing was done in time - but that's not uniquely a French problem.

It's laughable when people suggest that the solution to all ills is deregulation and less government spending, or mutter darkly that the end of "freedom" is in sight - just look at the French. The disaster that is America at present is the fruit of just those policies that the so-called liberals are advocating. Take health care for instance: Americans pay almost twice as much as the French, the British, or the Australians - and have a life expectancy that is several years lower, and, more importantly, no certainty that they will be covered for illness in old age because the private companies simply opt out. And there is no housing crisis here with foreclosures and all the rest. House prices and rents are, perhaps, a bit too high, particularly in Paris, but there is nothing like the pain that (I am led to believe) is happening in America. And French industry is not on it's ears either: they produce excellent cars and planes, perhaps the best trains in the world, and are leaders in other technologies.
The main things that are wrong with France are things they either share with, or have copied from America: the presidential system, McDonalds, Disneyland, Hallowe'en, and driving on the right.
 
Old 10-31-2010, 04:32 PM   #37
Jeebizz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by impert View Post
I'll try again.
There's too much nonsense on this thread for a full reply. Only one post that I can see from someone who actually lives in France, and who might know what's going on. And what is that? Not very much at all.

The streets are NOT flowing with blood. There will NOT be a revolution tomorrow. There were no bombs last night in my district, and the wine has not lost its taste.
There have been strikes, certainly. There was a mild shortage of fuel - queues at some service stations, some ran dry. Some trains did not run (most did). A few tyres got burned in front of barricades (I wish they'd stop that), but all in all, it was pretty much a ho-hum affair.

We're told the French are not facing up to reality. To many of them, the reality is that something that was theirs a little while ago has been taken away by a stroke of the pen. In effect, they have worked for years on the basis of a contract of sorts between them and the government, and now, through no fault of theirs, the government has reneged on the deal. They are pissed off - who wouldn't be? They are pissed off with Sarkozy - but he has done a great deal to earn it, and anyway, in what country are people happy with their leaders for long?

It's true, there is a problem with the national debt and with government spending - as there is in most countries at the moment. But the time to address this problem was years ago. We've known for years that there was going to be a problem when the baby-boomers reached retirement age. Here and pretty much everywhere else, nothing was done in time - but that's not uniquely a French problem.

It's laughable when people suggest that the solution to all ills is deregulation and less government spending, or mutter darkly that the end of "freedom" is in sight - just look at the French. The disaster that is America at present is the fruit of just those policies that the so-called liberals are advocating. Take health care for instance: Americans pay almost twice as much as the French, the British, or the Australians - and have a life expectancy that is several years lower, and, more importantly, no certainty that they will be covered for illness in old age because the private companies simply opt out. And there is no housing crisis here with foreclosures and all the rest. House prices and rents are, perhaps, a bit too high, particularly in Paris, but there is nothing like the pain that (I am led to believe) is happening in America. And French industry is not on it's ears either: they produce excellent cars and planes, perhaps the best trains in the world, and are leaders in other technologies.
The main things that are wrong with France are things they either share with, or have copied from America: the presidential system, McDonalds, Disneyland, Hallowe'en, and driving on the right.
Well that is actually the most intelligent reply so far, +1. If I may though I do take one issue with your post:

Quote:
the presidential system
Unlike the states, in France you do not have political parties that are easily infiltrated by corporation and/or religious nuts. Also unlike the states, the government in France give each candidate running for president an equal amount of money, no more, no less. There are no 'contributions' to a campaign by other parties like there are here in the states. I think perhaps this is what the US needs to copy from the French.
 
Old 10-31-2010, 04:40 PM   #38
H_TeXMeX_H
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I see. Well, actually I'm not in the US right now, so I can't tell you how it is there. It's probably the same thing as when I left: the propaganda networks spewing out fear and uncertainty, the puppets in the white house and congress writing swiftly and proving that the pen is mightier than the sword ... at taking away people's rights, and the police getting more and more bloodthirsty and vicious (more than before). Oh, and of course more recently, the banksters not wanting to give up the precious... they wants it for themselves !
 
Old 11-01-2010, 07:46 AM   #39
impert
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If I may though I do take one issue with your post:

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the presidential system
I stuck that in because I think it's a bit easier to get rid of a bad prime minister than a bad president. However, my faith in that took a beating when Tony Blair managed to hold on to power for so long.
 
Old 11-01-2010, 08:03 AM   #40
Kenny_Strawn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by H_TeXMeX_H View Post
P.S. I don't ever post about politics. Politics is "The US", "The Russians", "The French", "The Republicans", "The Democrats", "The Socialists", "conservatives", "liberals", etc. All BS terms / groups, invented by politicians to obfuscate and confuse ... that's all they are to me, and they make no sense.
Agreed -- as long as there's private corporations and as long as there's copyright/patent law, there will be corrupt politicians. And I agree also that communist governments can also get corrupted -- as they always say, "Power corrupts".

That's why we need a real political reform.
 
Old 11-01-2010, 11:43 AM   #41
H_TeXMeX_H
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The problem is greater than just corrupt politicians, it is the system itself, that fails to account for corrupt politicians, and it is also the people that fail to protect their own rights.

But, then, there's probably no solution. There are only two paths to choose from now: enslavement or annihilation ... choose, or you can just wait for the choice to be made for you.
 
  


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