LinuxQuestions.org
Visit Jeremy's Blog.
Go Back   LinuxQuestions.org > Forums > Non-*NIX Forums > General
User Name
Password
General This forum is for non-technical general discussion which can include both Linux and non-Linux topics. Have fun!

Notices


Reply
  Search this Thread
Old 05-20-2017, 05:46 PM   #16
273
LQ Addict
 
Registered: Dec 2011
Location: UK
Distribution: Debian Sid AMD64, Raspbian Wheezy, various VMs
Posts: 6,914

Rep: Reputation: 1999Reputation: 1999Reputation: 1999Reputation: 1999Reputation: 1999Reputation: 1999Reputation: 1999Reputation: 1999Reputation: 1999Reputation: 1999Reputation: 1999

Quote:
Originally Posted by kudsu View Post
What if like 1984 you woke up and history had been rewritten?
I'm fairly sure this has already happened. I pay too little attention and I'm too tired to be able to give examples but I'm confident that history has been rewritten and will be again. One I'm fairly sure it documented is that I think King Richard who was dug up in Leicester had his history rewritten, for example. The more modern ones, sadly, I don't recall the details of.
 
Old 05-20-2017, 07:57 PM   #17
rokytnji
LQ 5k Club
 
Registered: Mar 2008
Location: Waaaaay out West Texas
Distribution: AntiX 17 , ChromeOS
Posts: 5,228
Blog Entries: 20

Rep: Reputation: 2489Reputation: 2489Reputation: 2489Reputation: 2489Reputation: 2489Reputation: 2489Reputation: 2489Reputation: 2489Reputation: 2489Reputation: 2489Reputation: 2489
Edited; I shouldn't have bitten.

Last edited by rokytnji; 05-20-2017 at 10:41 PM. Reason: Just had to
 
Old 05-20-2017, 08:23 PM   #18
273
LQ Addict
 
Registered: Dec 2011
Location: UK
Distribution: Debian Sid AMD64, Raspbian Wheezy, various VMs
Posts: 6,914

Rep: Reputation: 1999Reputation: 1999Reputation: 1999Reputation: 1999Reputation: 1999Reputation: 1999Reputation: 1999Reputation: 1999Reputation: 1999Reputation: 1999Reputation: 1999
I suppose "carbon trading" could be a conspiracy -- I know that it was promoted to people with wealth.
 
Old 05-20-2017, 09:49 PM   #19
jamison20000e
Senior Member
 
Registered: Nov 2005
Location: ...uncanny valley... infinity\1975; (randomly born:) Milwaukee, WI, US( + travel,) Earth( I wish,) END BORDER$!◣◢┌∩┐ Fe26-E,e...
Distribution: any GPL that works well on my cheapest; has been KDE or CLI but open... http://goo.gl/NqgqJx &c ;-)
Posts: 3,663
Blog Entries: 2

Rep: Reputation: 1123Reputation: 1123Reputation: 1123Reputation: 1123Reputation: 1123Reputation: 1123Reputation: 1123Reputation: 1123Reputation: 1123
Unhappy

One thing is true, earth like us will die but how long could we prolong...
think we'd have to define conspiracy as education from rags to riches
and love all them *!**** till we wind up in ditches, s‽

http://www.cracked.com/article_24158...all-along.html

What's the difference between gossip and history?
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0512615/
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xxx...men_shortfilms
 
Old 05-21-2017, 03:14 AM   #20
ondoho
LQ Addict
 
Registered: Dec 2013
Posts: 7,031
Blog Entries: 4

Rep: Reputation: 1687Reputation: 1687Reputation: 1687Reputation: 1687Reputation: 1687Reputation: 1687Reputation: 1687Reputation: 1687Reputation: 1687Reputation: 1687Reputation: 1687
"Reality is much weirder"
 
Old 05-21-2017, 06:32 AM   #21
hazel
Senior Member
 
Registered: Mar 2016
Location: Harrow, UK
Distribution: Debian, Crux, LFS, AntiX, NuTyX
Posts: 1,490
Blog Entries: 2

Rep: Reputation: 639Reputation: 639Reputation: 639Reputation: 639Reputation: 639Reputation: 639
On the way home from church this morning, I saw this headline in a newspaper shop display:

Shock new NASA research: Kim Jong Un is a Space Alien!
 
Old 05-21-2017, 02:10 PM   #22
sundialsvcs
LQ Guru
 
Registered: Feb 2004
Location: SE Tennessee, USA
Distribution: Gentoo, LFS
Posts: 8,706
Blog Entries: 4

Rep: Reputation: 3030Reputation: 3030Reputation: 3030Reputation: 3030Reputation: 3030Reputation: 3030Reputation: 3030Reputation: 3030Reputation: 3030Reputation: 3030Reputation: 3030
Quote:
Originally Posted by hazel View Post
Kim Jong Un is a Space Alien!
"Zed, we have a bug!"
 
Old 05-21-2017, 04:16 PM   #23
kudsu
Member
 
Registered: Apr 2017
Location: from LA
Distribution: Slackware and anything
Posts: 50

Rep: Reputation: Disabled
I have changed my mind. I was wrong I must have been sleep walking under the influence of LSD. I love Linux Questions and want to stay a member in good standing. What do I care about the truth which is both a affectation and an illusion these days.

But I can imagine how things could happen. One day maybe in Spring you visit an old library. Browsing through the book shelves you discover a book on British intelligence. It is about WW2. The book mentions using media analysis during the war. The page is very interesting and chock full of info. You copy it. You ask for more books. They tell you there is only that one. You remember in school Enigma was the only intelligence weapon. You go home and read the page you got. The page references dates and people. Your curiosity is up. You think about it and because of the dates you realize that the people mentioned are all dead. You become obsessed. Was there another intelligence method? One that has disappeared from history. You start searching current history books and of course there is no mention of any such method. Decades pass. You remember your conclusions. One night you take in the Nick Nolte film Mother Night. Your mind is filled with thoughts that things such as this must have happened during the war even if this is just a movie. The research and work you have done have made you a media analyst. You first think about the content that could have been obtained from the German war papers. The use of events and stories that provided information and war facts. You think to yourself the Allies won the war and originated the tool media analysis. Could they be using it on their populations. The silent answer echoes loudly in your mind yes. After that you again become obsessed with how the media has become controlled. What would they look for? What can they print? More interesting what can't be said and a complete list of those things that can't become discussed. How can the information be used counted sorted manipulated.You start to be able to predict content and stories almost without seeing the paper as you notice the content repeats.

The original books you found have disappeared. The interviews with survivors are stale and most of the survivors are dead. But you notice your apartment has been searched. Things are not in the same place. It is almost as if someone wants you to know that they were there, that they know about you and your behaviour. Perhaps an implied threat that you should keep your mouth shut and watch your actions.

You know that you are right but you grow paranoid. You look for people following you. Your phones and electronics are tapped. You start waking up from nightmares screaming uncontrollably at the top of your lungs but after you calm down you are very much alone.
 
Old 05-21-2017, 05:06 PM   #24
kudsu
Member
 
Registered: Apr 2017
Location: from LA
Distribution: Slackware and anything
Posts: 50

Rep: Reputation: Disabled
Quote:
Originally Posted by kudsu View Post
I have changed my mind. I was wrong I must have been sleep walking under the influence of LSD. I love Linux Questions and want to stay a member in good standing. What do I care about the truth which is both a affectation and an illusion these days.

But I can imagine how things could happen. One day maybe in Spring you visit an old library. Browsing through the book shelves you discover a book on British intelligence. It is about WW2. The book mentions using media analysis during the war. The page is very interesting and chock full of info. You copy it. You ask for more books. They tell you there is only that one. You remember in school Enigma was the only intelligence weapon. You go home and read the page you got. The page references dates and people. Your curiosity is up. You think about it and because of the dates you realize that the people mentioned are all dead. You become obsessed. Was there another intelligence method? One that has disappeared from history. You start searching current history books and of course there is no mention of any such method. Decades pass. You remember your conclusions. One night you take in the Nick Nolte film Mother Night. Your mind is filled with thoughts that things such as this must have happened during the war even if this is just a movie. The research and work you have done have made you a media analyst. You first think about the content that could have been obtained from the German war papers. The use of events and stories that provided information and war facts. You think to yourself the Allies won the war and originated the tool media analysis. Could they be using it on their populations. The silent answer echoes loudly in your mind yes. After that you again become obsessed with how the media has become controlled. What would they look for? What can they print? More interesting what can't be said and a complete list of those things that can't become discussed. How can the information be used counted sorted manipulated.You start to be able to predict content and stories almost without seeing the paper as you notice the content repeats.

The original books you found have disappeared. The interviews with survivors are stale and most of the survivors are dead. But you notice your apartment has been searched. Things are not in the same place. It is almost as if someone wants you to know that they were there, that they know about you and your behaviour. Perhaps an implied threat that you should keep your mouth shut and watch your actions.

You know that you are right but you grow paranoid. You look for people following you. Your phones and electronics are tapped. You start waking up from nightmares screaming uncontrollably at the top of your lungs but after you calm down you are very much alone.
zzz
 
Old 05-22-2017, 08:58 AM   #25
sundialsvcs
LQ Guru
 
Registered: Feb 2004
Location: SE Tennessee, USA
Distribution: Gentoo, LFS
Posts: 8,706
Blog Entries: 4

Rep: Reputation: 3030Reputation: 3030Reputation: 3030Reputation: 3030Reputation: 3030Reputation: 3030Reputation: 3030Reputation: 3030Reputation: 3030Reputation: 3030Reputation: 3030
It turns out that George Orwell got it right when he wrote 1984: he only missed it by 20 years. And he could not have anticipated that "your phone" (and "your computer") is what is watching you – and listening to you – and tracking you – and knows your voice and can recognize your face. I think that he also never anticipated that this monstrous intrusion would be assimilated by society, instead of being rejected and overturned as he had written.

But, in writing his book, Orwell was simply a student of human nature and of the predilections of human governments. His dystopia was simply a description of it – and, we are living it right now.

The wheels of history continue to inexorably turn, however. Today there is a growing realization that this is not altogether a good thing. (How did the Nazis identify and round-up all the Jews? Through telephone call records.) One day, many of the things that we are doing today will be highly illegal. We will one day re-remember that "Knowledge Is Power." And, that it is a power that can be used for good or for unspeakable evil.

Last edited by sundialsvcs; 05-22-2017 at 09:02 AM.
 
Old 05-22-2017, 09:18 AM   #26
hazel
Senior Member
 
Registered: Mar 2016
Location: Harrow, UK
Distribution: Debian, Crux, LFS, AntiX, NuTyX
Posts: 1,490
Blog Entries: 2

Rep: Reputation: 639Reputation: 639Reputation: 639Reputation: 639Reputation: 639Reputation: 639
Quote:
Originally Posted by sundialsvcs View Post
It turns out that George Orwell got it right when he wrote 1984: he only missed it by 20 years. And he could not have anticipated that "your phone" (and "your computer") is what is watching you and listening to you and tracking you and knows your voice and can recognize your face. I think that he also never anticipated that this monstrous intrusion would be assimilated by society, instead of being rejected and overturned as he had written.
There was a long dispute between Orwell and Aldous Huxley about whose dystopic vision was more likely to come true. Huxley argued that the kind of repression Orwell described was hopelessly inefficient in terms of the effort required, therefore unlikely to materialise. Efficient tyranny means making the slaves happy with their slavery so that they don't want to revolt.
 
Old 05-22-2017, 10:56 AM   #27
odiseo77
Senior Member
 
Registered: Dec 2004
Location: Spain
Distribution: Debian Sid, OpenSUSE 42.3
Posts: 1,206

Rep: Reputation: 631Reputation: 631Reputation: 631Reputation: 631Reputation: 631Reputation: 631
Quote:
Originally Posted by hazel View Post
There was a long dispute between Orwell and Aldous Huxley about whose dystopic vision was more likely to come true. Huxley argued that the kind of repression Orwell described was hopelessly inefficient in terms of the effort required, therefore unlikely to materialise. Efficient tyranny means making the slaves happy with their slavery so that they don't want to revolt.
I think we have a mix of both dystopic visions: we're being spied by our phones and TVs and we know it, but we rush into the stores when these devices are released for sale (and we're more than happy to pay for them!).
 
Old 05-22-2017, 01:02 PM   #28
sundialsvcs
LQ Guru
 
Registered: Feb 2004
Location: SE Tennessee, USA
Distribution: Gentoo, LFS
Posts: 8,706
Blog Entries: 4

Rep: Reputation: 3030Reputation: 3030Reputation: 3030Reputation: 3030Reputation: 3030Reputation: 3030Reputation: 3030Reputation: 3030Reputation: 3030Reputation: 3030Reputation: 3030
Quote:
Originally Posted by odiseo77 View Post
I think we have a mix of both dystopic visions: we're being spied by our phones and TVs and we know it, but we rush into the stores when these devices are released for sale (and we're more than happy to pay for them!).
Until such time as this "uncanny knowledge" is leveraged as a weapon of war ... ... we might continue to be blissfully ignorant.

But we are operating under conditions that have never before existed. It has never, in all of human history, been possible to do what we are doing now. Yet we are unconcerned about the very-human aspects of information (and, society) security.

"War" is an attack that targets a nation or a society. Throughout all the history of man, this required "armies" and "warships" and so on, and things like "walls" (and armies and warships) could effectively defend against them.

But what is now possible, for the first time, is infiltration ... on a nationwide scale ... armed with perfect knowledge of individual citizens. Your opponent knows your voice, your face, your family, your location, therefore your habits and routine to the finest detail. And, he knows this from half-a-planet away. Such information is very durable: "you don't change much." It does not have to be "transmitted over the Internet" at all, to be effectively used against you. It is therefore possible to envision an attack scenario that will slip through and slip past a society's guard, as it were, "right under their noses."

All that you really need ... is a psychopath, or a nation that secretly hates you but that is able to slip its nationals right into your data centers ("we'll work for less than your citizens do!") ... and/or to relocate your data center to their ("labor is cheaper over here!") country. All they need is for ideas to "occur to them" that, by your own choice, "just don't occur to you." You're vulnerable, by your own hand, but you willfully choose to pretend that you are not. You are aware, but choose not to be. Your enemy thinks otherwise. And, he has all the time in the world.

He is ... cunning.

Quote:
“Let your plans be dark and impenetrable as night, and when you move, fall like a thunderbolt.”

“Engage people with what they expect; it is what they are able to discern and confirms their projections. It settles them into predictable patterns of response, occupying their minds while you wait for the extraordinary moment — that which they cannot anticipate.”
We have created a vulnerability that has never before existed. Human nature being what it is, it is therefore only a matter of time before it is exploited to devastating effects: effects which, also, have never before existed.

Last edited by sundialsvcs; 05-22-2017 at 01:07 PM.
 
Old 05-22-2017, 03:08 PM   #29
kudsu
Member
 
Registered: Apr 2017
Location: from LA
Distribution: Slackware and anything
Posts: 50

Rep: Reputation: Disabled
Unhappy Agreed

I agree. About six years ago I think I was reading the news and TV and movie stars and others were leaving the country in droves. I think mostly Europe but maybe some in Canada. At about the same time I talked to my Russian friend he suggested Greece. The most amazing Perl programmer I have ever met. I don't think it matters where you go now like you said. My family is here and I am on a pension.

The most incredible thing is nobody and no media talk about it.
 
Old 05-22-2017, 03:21 PM   #30
sundialsvcs
LQ Guru
 
Registered: Feb 2004
Location: SE Tennessee, USA
Distribution: Gentoo, LFS
Posts: 8,706
Blog Entries: 4

Rep: Reputation: 3030Reputation: 3030Reputation: 3030Reputation: 3030Reputation: 3030Reputation: 3030Reputation: 3030Reputation: 3030Reputation: 3030Reputation: 3030Reputation: 3030
I don't think that any place in the world is "safer" than any other. We are all humans here. What we need to do is to be very, very mindful of our own natures: "the good, and the bad, and the ugly."

Then, we need to be skeptical, and cautious. (These being "the sensible things that we are not doing right now.") We have indeed thrown common sense to the four winds – without even giving it a second thought.

Likewise, we still refuse to treat "computer programming" as a profession, as we do with electricians, home improvement contractors, plumbers, and even the low-voltage wiring men who make rich men's houses look oh-so-pretty at night. We don't really seem to care who has access to "all this stuff." We don't even care where a data center is, "in our happy little 'cloud.'"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Puck (A Midsummer Night's Dream):
"What fools these Mortals be!"
C'mon! We are not "fools!" (Or at least, "we didn't used to be!") So, why are we, all of the sudden, so determined to act like "naive, gullible, idiots?"
 
  


Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
On U.S. President John F. Kennedy and Conspiracy Theories!! cousinlucky General 12 05-15-2017 08:32 PM
conspiracy theories icecubeflower General 110 09-22-2009 10:05 AM
Why am I looking at conspiracy theories? secretlydead General 3 03-12-2009 08:35 PM

LinuxQuestions.org > Forums > Non-*NIX Forums > General

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:34 AM.

Main Menu
Advertisement
My LQ
Write for LQ
LinuxQuestions.org is looking for people interested in writing Editorials, Articles, Reviews, and more. If you'd like to contribute content, let us know.
Main Menu
Syndicate
RSS1  Latest Threads
RSS1  LQ News
Twitter: @linuxquestions
Facebook: linuxquestions Google+: linuxquestions
Open Source Consulting | Domain Registration