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Old 02-23-2019, 03:13 AM   #1
darksaurian
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what's a console


Are consoles just PC's these days? I know in the olden days before graphics cards the super nintendo had special hardware for layers and mode7 and all that stuff. But my nintendo switch supposedly runs some tweaked version of BSD and it could have a web browser on it if they let it or somebody hacked it. I feel like consoles are make-believe. All they are is a defined set of hardware so everybody making games for one doesn't have to worry about anyone having different specs. Someone tell me if I have no idea what I'm talking about.

I used to wonder the same thing about apple computers. I remember when they started using intel chips. Then they started using NVidia cards. And their OS is some kind unix. What does apple even do? And then they came out with the ipod as if no one already had an mp3 player. I don't get it.
 
Old 02-23-2019, 03:16 AM   #2
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Depends on what context you're talking about. For example, and to my understanding, a "virtual console" in the Linux and UNIX sense means that the graphical environment isn't running, and therefore you just have a command-line interface.
 
Old 02-23-2019, 03:28 AM   #3
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To a gamer, a console is the handset they use to control actions on their TV, to a power worker it is the control board they use, in Linux, it has been used to suggest the command line environment, which is a virtual terminal, a VT.

Apple uses a version of FreeBSD, with their own Aqua GUI on top; some people will only buy Apple branded products, snob value, waste of money.
 
Old 02-23-2019, 04:37 AM   #4
Trihexagonal
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PlayStation 4 is based on FreeBSD 9:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PlaySt...ystem_software

I have a PS2 and 4 FreeBSD desktops.
 
Old 02-23-2019, 05:27 AM   #5
ondoho
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"console" can mean all sorts of things; it's not a strictly defined term, not in the gaming world, not in the computer wrold, not elsewhere.
 
Old 02-23-2019, 07:08 AM   #6
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Off on a tangent....

Quote:
Originally Posted by fatmac View Post
Apple uses a version of FreeBSD, with their own Aqua GUI on top; some people will only buy Apple branded products, snob value, waste of money.
Everyone has a right to their opinions/beliefs but when they are not backed by evidence they deserve to be corrected, and the typical belief that Apple products are only about "snob appeal, waste of money" is in fact unsupportable. One only has to look at the iPod to get just one example. Yes they have snob appeal. Yes they cost more than a hundred other imitators but "waste of money"? No way. Not only did they essentially invent the portable mp3 player, it was louder, easier to use, way faster to get to a specific title, held more songs than any of the imitators that followed in it's wake. A few others are that way back in the day Apple had true Plug 'n Play before anyone else and at it's inception Firewire just walked all over USB.

Incidentally even way back then, and we are talking 20+ years ago, Macs only came with SCSI hard drives because they were faster by far and substantially more reliable than PATA IDE drives BUT also substantially more expensive. The point is that Apple has always come at a premium price but for functional reasons, not merely snob appeal. The odd thing is I have never owned an Apple product in my life. I'm not a fan of their super proprietary stance but I have worked on a few and they were all expertly made and of stand out quality. The only bad thing I can say about Apple is that some models were designed with more concern for aesthetics than function to suit me, specifically some compact PCs and Laptops would have run cooler had they given them more room and airflow but that's it. Everything else was and is still superlative.

I think the adoption of a BSD-based OpSys may turn out to be Steve Jobs' greatest contribution to the Apple brand. There is nothing at all wrong with disliking Apple products but for the right reasons, not just jumping on the meme bandwagon and assuming they are not worth the expense. Functionally they are among the very best products ever built but they do come with a philosophy of "Let Apple do the dirty work. Users should just buy and use apps". That philosophy doesn't suit me. I will likely never own an Apple product but I actually know the real reason why. There is no reason to kid myself that they are simply overpriced fashion statements for snobs. Maybe you shouldn't either.

Last edited by enorbet; 02-23-2019 at 02:11 PM. Reason: typo
 
Old 02-23-2019, 07:41 AM   #7
sevendogsbsd
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trihexagonal View Post
PlayStation 4 is based on FreeBSD 9:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PlaySt...ystem_software
Well that's just awesome - wife got me a PS4 for Christmas. Guess I made the right choice
 
Old 02-23-2019, 01:05 PM   #8
fatmac
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Quote:
Everyone has a right to their opinions
Very true, & I have mine.
 
Old 02-23-2019, 01:33 PM   #9
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To get back to the point, the term "console" is also sometimes used to mean the system console: i.e where syslogd and klogd print out their messages. In mainframe UNIX systems, this was a printing terminal such as a Decwriter located in the computer room. In Linux, it is usually the first virtual console, /dev/tty1. If you are working on this interface, you are liable to be interrupted by system messages.
 
Old 02-23-2019, 02:14 PM   #10
enorbet
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fatmac View Post
Very true, & I have mine.
You didn't go far enough.... again. You apparently didn't ask yourself about the quality of your opinion with "Based on what real evidence?"
 
Old 02-23-2019, 08:36 PM   #11
frankbell
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A console the fold-down armrest in between the two seats in my pick-up truck.

Joking aside, I know some persons who do composition, graphics design, and magazine work. They lean to Apples because they find the platform superior to Windows. One of them, who does special effects, is quite peeved that he can no longer get an Apple desktop, though it appears that they do offer some all-in-ones.

Last edited by frankbell; 02-23-2019 at 08:38 PM.
 
Old 02-24-2019, 03:37 AM   #12
fatmac
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enorbet View Post
"Based on what real evidence?"
My own.
 
Old 02-24-2019, 10:42 PM   #13
Woolie Wool
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enorbet View Post
Off on a tangent....



Everyone has a right to their opinions/beliefs but when they are not backed by evidence they deserve to be corrected, and the typical belief that Apple products are only about "snob appeal, waste of money" is in fact unsupportable. One only has to look at the iPod to get just one example. Yes they have snob appeal. Yes they cost more than a hundred other imitators but "waste of money"? No way. Not only did they essentially invent the portable mp3 player, it was louder, easier to use, way faster to get to a specific title, held more songs than any of the imitators that followed in it's wake. A few others are that way back in the day Apple had true Plug 'n Play before anyone else and at it's inception Firewire just walked all over USB.

Incidentally even way back then, and we are talking 20+ years ago, Macs only came with SCSI hard drives because they were faster by far and substantially more reliable than PATA IDE drives BUT also substantially more expensive. The point is that Apple has always come at a premium price but for functional reasons, not merely snob appeal. The odd thing is I have never owned an Apple product in my life. I'm not a fan of their super proprietary stance but I have worked on a few and they were all expertly made and of stand out quality. The only bad thing I can say about Apple is that some models were designed with more concern for aesthetics than function to suit me, specifically some compact PCs and Laptops would have run cooler had they given them more room and airflow but that's it. Everything else was and is still superlative.

I think the adoption of a BSD-based OpSys may turn out to be Steve Jobs' greatest contribution to the Apple brand. There is nothing at all wrong with disliking Apple products but for the right reasons, not just jumping on the meme bandwagon and assuming they are not worth the expense. Functionally they are among the very best products ever built but they do come with a philosophy of "Let Apple do the dirty work. Users should just buy and use apps". That philosophy doesn't suit me. I will likely never own an Apple product but I actually know the real reason why. There is no reason to kid myself that they are simply overpriced fashion statements for snobs. Maybe you shouldn't either.
I would venture your stance is more true about early Macs while his more accurately describes modern Macs. You certainly don't see the sort of quality and expandability of '00s Power Mac and Mac Pro towers in Apple products today. The screens are nice, the keyboards aren't terrible as chiclet designs go (though any chiclet keyboard on a desktop is an outrage), they seem well-put-together until they hit something or the charging cable comes apart. But the moment anything inside fails, you've got a $2000 brick. Really I think it's the fact that consumer PC laptops are absolute abortions and even oldschool ThinkPads, while long on real quality, skimped on the display and audio, which matter a great deal to consumers, that keep Apple competitive in the personal computer business ("Mac" almost seems synonymous with "MacBook"--a desktop Mac makes zero sense to me unless you're developing apps for MacBooks). I love my T520, but a typical consumer in 2012 would have walked right past it, its tank-like shell, and its glorious long-travel keyboard, and straight to the MacBook Pro with the slick unibody case and flashy IPS screen. Every time. And they would see it as just another shitty PC laptop that will fail within two years.

However bad Macs might be, they're worlds better than some Acer or ASUS or Lenovo "IdeaPad" piece of shit. And even ThinkPads are gradually turning to shit (soldered-on memory, anyone?). Laptops, in general, are terrible. But Macs genuinely are among the best you can buy.

Last edited by Woolie Wool; 02-24-2019 at 10:55 PM.
 
Old 02-24-2019, 10:59 PM   #14
scasey
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To me, the console is a monitor and keyboard directly attached to the computer and used to control it.

In the old days, Burroughs called them ODT (Operator Display Terminal) or SPO (Systems Program Operator) If one needed to do something at the console, one sat down to the ODT to do it.

In Linux, I think of the console as the monitor/keyboard/mouse directly connected to a computer, providing a command-line-only interface. On most GUI distributions, one can get to the console with Ctrl+Alt+F2

When one boots into run level 3, all one has is the console.

At a data center, there's a "crash cart" containing a monitor/keyboard/mouse that can be rolled to a specific piece of hardware and connected to provide a console.
 
Old 02-25-2019, 02:16 AM   #15
Trihexagonal
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darksaurian View Post
Are consoles just PC's these days? I know in the olden days before graphics cards the super nintendo had special hardware for layers and mode7 and all that stuff. But my nintendo switch supposedly runs some tweaked version of BSD and it could have a web browser on it if they let it or somebody hacked it. I feel like consoles are make-believe.
Any Otaku knows there is Console and PC gaming.

At the risk of using up my last life will venture OP is asking if a Console gaming system like Nintendo Switch isn't just a PC running a specialized OS in the guise of a gaming Console like the Nintendo Entertainment System of yore.

Quote:
Nintendo Switch Runs On Linux

We’ve suspected it all along, and now it’s been confirmed: the Nintendo Switch runs on Linux. More specifically, the Linux Free BSD Kernel.

Last year, it was rumored that Nintendo might use a version of Android for its Switch operating system, since it’s powered by an ARM processor, a popular CPU architecture used by smartphones.

The Nintendo Switch Linux OS is used for the “under the hood” aspects of the console, as there is little resemblance to the desktop operating system. The Switch also uses Webkit for its Internet browser — another open source platform used by Google Chrome and Apple’s Safari browser.
Linux Free BSD kernel?

Last edited by Trihexagonal; 02-25-2019 at 02:23 AM.
 
  


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