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Old 12-13-2020, 12:31 PM   #16
Ser Olmy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hazel View Post
But the court decided to bite the hand that fed them. They said that Texas "lacks standing" in the case.
That's a very interesting interpretation of the law, because if correct, it means that no-one is ever in a position to challenge another state if it chooses to violate either its own or the federal constitution with regards to elections.

A similar conundrum arose with the decision in the Pennsylvania Supreme Court, where the ruling stated that the plaintiffs had not brought their suit in a timely manner. The matter in question was the legality of no-excuse mail-in voting, but the unconstitutional decision by the Pennsylvania governor happened in October 2019, and the judge ruled that the suit should have been filed back then.

But if the plaintiffs had tried filing a year ago, the election hadn't yet happened so no party had suffered any injury, and hence they wouldn't have had standing to sue. Catch-22.
 
Old 12-14-2020, 12:49 AM   #17
ondoho
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obobskivich, thanks again for further explaning things without demeaning me or my differing opinions.

rtmistler:
thanks for throwing a wikipedia article at me.
Once again i get the feeling you have it out for me. At no point did I call obobskivich's statements absurd.
Me calling myself stupid is not a generalisation and does not degrade this discussion.
Please don't distort my meaning, and don't put words in my mouth. If you really want to "moderate" in the true sense of the word, I think you should leave me alone now.

Yes, I am opinionated. I'm not trying to feign objectivity. That doesn't mean I "degrade" the discussion, quite the opposite - in my opinion.
 
Old 12-14-2020, 08:30 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ondoho View Post
rtmistler:
thanks for throwing a wikipedia article at me.
Once again i get the feeling you have it out for me. At no point did I call obobskivich's statements absurd.
Me calling myself stupid is not a generalisation and does not degrade this discussion.
Please don't distort my meaning, and don't put words in my mouth. If you really want to "moderate" in the true sense of the word, I think you should leave me alone now.

Yes, I am opinionated. I'm not trying to feign objectivity. That doesn't mean I "degrade" the discussion, quite the opposite - in my opinion.
You're welcome.

I do not have anything out for you, and used the term absurd by my own right, so sorry you misinterpreted that.

I will always tell people that self deprecation and name calling (orange baby) are poor things to do. That is my opinionated side.

WRT the topics surrounding whether or not a politician in the US would be able to forge ahead with seemingly unrealistic intentions, I ask the general readers why they feel that this could be so? Is this a biased opinion about American politics? Is this bias due to being within a different government where those types of things can, and do, occur? Is it due to numerous press stories and also public statements made by the president which confuse or give these impressions? Or some combination thereof, or other reasons? Why I'm asking is that I've never questioned the election results, nor questioned that these challenges have any legal grounds once I got the information that each objection point made had no actual evidence.

WRT name calling, some history and basis, if you'll excuse the off-topic, or at the very least, ignore post this sentence:
I grew up and live near the Boston area of MA, sadly reputed to be the most racist area of our country, dating far back, but examples such as Jackie Robinson and statements made from the stands, the 'N' word spoken, when he visited the park, along with a great deal of visiting sports players stating that they've heard the same yelled in general, all the time, including (pre-covid that is) presently. My bias is "not if I have anything to do with it", meaning that I'd prefer to not have that reputation due both to any of my actions or words and also to make a note to people if I hear them using actions or words to make things worse, that they should not do that. The 'c' word, the 'n' word, the 'f' word, these are words where I learned that they are draconianly bad to use, and to hear. Meanwhile I hear African Americans use the 'n' word profusely. This is bad, it is self deprecating, doesn't matter that they see no harm in their own use of it, the result is still the same.

How does some of that tie into politics? Bear with me for a tad more history as well as one final story:
I did vote for Trump in 2016. I felt he was a better alternative to Hillary Clinton, who's husband I did vote for, but who also disappointed me with the shenanigans that occurred during his office term. I felt that Hillary Clinton's reputation, or make-up as a political leader/person was little different than her husband's. Shortly after Trump took office and began to make a lot of insulting statements, I realized that it was going to be a long 4 years, and it has been. So he didn't get my vote this time and I'm glad he's not going to get a second term. I also feel two things about any possible second term for him (1) he's so egotistical that once he's been rejected by the public, he'll wash his hands and not run again, in his opinion, leaving us to our own ignorance, or (2) he has no chance at all due to the way things have gone and he'll not even come close to a future nomination and also have far less support from the Republican party. The final story part is my ultimate example of how bad things are when people "call names", a friend showed me a picture of a Biden/Harris 2020 political sign, in front of a house, on a very public street. The sign appeared to start 100% as a normal Biden sign, however in large, prominent letters at the top, the message was modified to include the 'f' word, as in <bleep> Biden/Harris 2020. And then the rest of the house/property was decorated with Trump signs. This presidency is the first time that I have ever seen persons publicly saying all these very nasty things about candidates, and other people, solely because they supported one candidate over another. In spite of my non-support of the current president, I still cringe when I hear people call him names, and ask them not to do so. Feel free though, I'm not your parent.
 
Old 12-14-2020, 08:39 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rtmistler View Post
...I also feel two things about any possible second term for him (1) he's so egotistical that once he's been rejected by the public, he'll wash his hands and not run again, in his opinion, leaving us to our own ignorance, or (2) he has no chance at all due to the way things have gone and he'll not even come close to a future nomination and also have far less support from the Republican party.
...
That's the question though, isn't it? Do the Republicans split their base knowing that loyal trump supporters won't accept anyone else, or do they stick with trump (particularly if he does run again in 4 years time)?

I doubt your country has seen the end of "Trumpism", even after biden takes office...
 
Old 12-14-2020, 09:33 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jsbjsb001 View Post
That's the question though, isn't it? Do the Republicans split their base knowing that loyal trump supporters won't accept anyone else, or do they stick with trump (particularly if he does run again in 4 years time)?

I doubt your country has seen the end of "Trumpism", even after biden takes office...
Bear in mind that the possibilities I cited are my opinions solely, and I'm quite sure there are very opposing views by others.

It's difficult to say, I literally saw a recorded video of a recent Trump speech where he said that if he loses the election, he'd have to leave the country. I feel he intended that to be humorous, but count me as one person who thought, "Do not let the door hit you on the backside as you're exiting."

People have short lived memories. If 2.5 to 3 years from now Trump starts campaigning and various persons of seeming good merit, show support for him, and he does something attune to reinventing his public persona, then who knows what can happen? I'm not concerned about that future time frame with respect to future presidential elections, at this time. And I feel that subscribing to any strong beliefs that there will be a certain outcome a few years in the future seems to be pointless, but I'm sure people will continue to speculate. For now, or after January 20th, he's 'yesterday's news'.
 
Old 12-14-2020, 09:49 AM   #21
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I should point out that I'm no trump supporter myself. I wasn't surprised he won in 2016 however, and never thought that Hillary "had it in the bag" for a minute. I can understand why people elected him instead of Hillary, given the resentment a lot of, and particularly "working class" people had for the establishment, and Hillary was, and is very a part of the same establishment. Where on the other hand, trump honestly was a complete outsider and not "yet another establishment stooge" in the eyes of a lot of people in the "rust belt" states in particular.

Trump simply took full advantage of the resentment people had towards the establishment, with people hoping trump was going to become "more presidential" during his term. But clearly, he's just too much of a complete narcissist to act "presidential" and it's been a failed experiment. He's also given a platform to the fringe who otherwise would not have had a voice under any other president.

So biden is going to have his work cut out for him, to say the very least.
 
Old 12-14-2020, 11:23 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jsbjsb001 View Post
I should point out ...

Trump simply took full advantage ...
Very much concur with those points, I think they well summarize my feelings on how he was a success back in 2016.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsbjsb001 View Post
So biden is going to have his work cut out for him, to say the very least.
Well yeah, but the office of president does have a lot of work. Granted that any 'next' person, be that Biden or say if Trump got a second term and then it was either Dem or Rep next, that person would have some baggage to clear out, due to Trump. I feel there's always this, potentially. But I also feel that based on what I've heard and seen from Biden, "now", he's up to the challenge, and largely the parts about acting presidential, being moderate about these adamant arguments, and not shying away from, or making bold, contrary statements about the country's issues, some of which are divisiveness/racism, lack of coherent world presence, and etc.
 
Old 12-14-2020, 11:35 AM   #23
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With any luck, Trump will still be in prison in 2024. Problem solved.

8bit
 
Old 12-14-2020, 01:59 PM   #24
ondoho
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I had really hoped to discuss the future of the USA and the oncoming democratic government. Instead it's all about DT - again. Thanks but no thanks, we discussed it ad nauseum.

I really hope the next 4 years are going to be less "entertaining" than the past 4 years.

Re "name calling": IMO this term is way too broad, as in "I'm against name calling".
In most countries, political satire is a daily part of news and journalism (and has been for a long time) and contains all sorts of "name calling", however not in the sense of using swear words, but in the sense of creating & applying all sorts of (possibly derogatory) nicknames.
I don't mind if it's alittle demeaning as long as it's also creative and contains at least a seed of justified criticism.
I do mind if it's demeaning just for its own sake.
Of course, if I were living on a radically divided powder keg I might feel differently.

Last edited by ondoho; 12-14-2020 at 02:02 PM.
 
Old 12-14-2020, 02:55 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ondoho View Post
I really hope the next 4 years are going to be less "entertaining" than the past 4 years.
Same here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ondoho View Post
I had really hoped to discuss the future of the USA and the oncoming democratic government.
Besides asking what specifically you wish to discuss, I'll offer some of my own thoughts about leadership under Biden.
Once again, personal opinion.

I personally feel that Biden wants to address the great amount of tension and divisiveness in the country. The great deal of protests, shootings, and negative acts which have come from those, seem to be a great concern and I have the opinion that Biden does not intend to just send troops and mandate, but instead to find better solutions globally for things like authority violence and also the resultant public ire about those things.

There are several subjects which are pervasive for any leader of the US, international trade, international relations, economy, defense, health/welfare/social services, environment, etc. While happy to discuss those, I'd also say that "Biden's platform was as stated during his campaign, this doesn't always work out exactly as they projected, but they'll typically try to address what they express.", and my crystal ball is no different than anyone else's, but there's some level of personal faith that he's nowhere near the type of person who would be revealed to be a complete liar. That said he does have a political record, which people can read up on and make some of their own judgements.

Regarding the pandemic, providing vaccines are effective and can get distributed, his real efforts would probably be to provide assurance to the public and display a calm demeanor as well as contend with any hiccups which occur with distribution. Then work with Congress to deal with things like economic recovery and possible measures to contend with something like this in the future.
 
Old 12-15-2020, 11:08 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by ondoho View Post
I had really hoped to discuss the future of the USA and the oncoming democratic government. Instead it's all about DT - again.
Good luck with that. Trump's not going anywhere (at lease until a conviction or two) and will have an out sized effect on the future of the United States of North America.

8bit
 
Old 12-15-2020, 01:34 PM   #27
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As reported by AP, Republicans in Georgia’s state Senate are calling for an end to absentee voting without cause and want to ban ballot drop boxes. It is obvious the GOP wants to focus on voter suppression and disenfranchise lawful voters. What is comical is that a Republican-controlled legislature introduced no excuse absentee voting in 2005.
 
Old 12-16-2020, 01:44 AM   #28
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^ yeah, I heard that too.

I also heard a political scientist here in Europe state that if the senate could help the democrats introduce more changes into foreign policy, like (new) international agreements and such.
So here's a foreigner hoping that it turns out that way.
 
Old 12-29-2020, 09:07 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rtmistler View Post
Very much concur with those points, I think they well summarize my feelings on how he was a success back in 2016.
..., being moderate about these adamant arguments, and not shying away from, or making bold, contrary statements about the country's issues, some of which are divisiveness/racism, lack of coherent world presence, and etc.
It seems Tony Schwartz who wrote trump's "Art of The Deal" book was way ahead of us, so I think you'll find this video interesting (it goes for almost an hour though) - I only found it by chance the other night.
 
Old 12-29-2020, 06:19 PM   #30
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It seems Tony Schwartz who wrote trump's "Art of The Deal" book was way ahead of us, so I think you'll find this video interesting (it goes for almost an hour though) - I only found it by chance the other night.
Thank you very much, this is such a good contribution! In my country too many people not know horrible truth about president Trump, but you do!
 
  


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