True. The thing is that Biden is a leader and a somewhat charismatic figure. Sure, he would not be my first pick, but he, IMHO, is far better than someone who is anti-charismatic and has no leadership qualities at all, unless you count energizing hate groups and dividing the country. The sad part is that we are finally starting to make strides towards racial equality and trump is doing everything in his power to create chaos and discord by enabling hate groups.

I just want normalcy. Even if that means the politics of the past 50 years. I have never felt this much loathing towards another president than I feel for trump. It will be interesting to see how his "base" reacts once he is out. Many of the farmers in the US support trump for some inexplicable reason, and they will likely not create problems, but the now energized hate groups may attempt to commit violence against racial groups.

What gets me is the farmers that support trump get subsidies from the federal government for various reasons. Some to NOT grow crops, some to grow certain crops. This is done to manipulate the market. These farmers are republican, which traditionally stands for small government that keeps its hands out of the people's affairs. Well, if you take the government's subsidies, you are letting them control you. Party notwithstanding, money talks so if this is happening, these farmers are being hypocritical.

Part of the trump support comes from education, or rather lack of it. Some intelligent people support him, but his base is largely uneducated. This also speaks to a complete lack of importance in the US on education. We simply do not value it enough. Part of that comes from how expensive it is; most people cannot afford it. It's a bigger problem than I can describe in a sentence.

The reality is we only know what the media tells us so no one actually knows...

I had to look up har·ri·dan. a strict, bossy, or belligerent old woman.

Which Ideology Has Inspired The Most Murders In Terrorist Attacks On U.S. Soil?

https://www.forbes.com/sites/realspi...h=5c8868dc1e74

The number of people killed in terrorist attacks on U.S. soil is small, but some ideologies inspire more terrorism than others. Islamists have killed about 14 times as many people as Nationalist and Right Wing terrorists who, in turn, have killed about 10 times as many people as Left Wing terrorists.

8bit

Generally, not aimed at anyone:
I wish more posters would provide links to the theories they promote. While everyone's entitled to "I think..."; please try to provide support for your opinions. I'll bet it helps with the signal to noise ratio.

TIA

So, if the media is not telling the "truth", they actually do know (in order to change it) which would be a lot of people as there's lots of media. The logic of the above sentence falls apart.

The aggregate of the sum of all media is as close as the average joe/josephine can get.

HTH,
8bit

Not arguing about semantics. We as the American people can only watch television or listen to the radio, or search on the Internet, where we all know everything is true (joking). This is what I meant. I assume you are essentially saying the same thing?

Agreed, what I had issue with was the "so no one actually knows..." part. We do actually know. Unless you're advocating a giant, all the world's media is in league to fool the public level conspiracy; we do know. The truth lies somewhere between all the "info" spewed by both sides. Some of it more accurate than others. That's why I offered this link the other day:
https://towardsdatascience.com/how-s...s-f28f0fab3cb3
To help us all decide what to accept from the media.

What did you mean by "so no one actually knows..."? TIA

8bit

I meant we as the general population only have so many sources so can only guess what the truth on a given subject is. I am sure someone actually knows the truth about a given topic, but it's really unknowable to most of us.

Ah the information age...a boon and a bane.

^ Thank you.

Let's take a specific question. Was there meaningful/effective voter fraud?
The conciseness from the range of least biased media sources says no.
(inviting everyone to do the homework)
So, do we know if there was meaningful/effective voter fraud?
Other than a giant conspiracy, or the biggest screw up ever (odds are about the same <--opinion), the answer is yes, we know.

8bit

Sorry, confused: "yes, we know" means there was voter fraud? I do not believe there was voter fraud at all. I believe the American people spoke the truth. If we always believe there is a giant conspiracy, then faith in anything is pointless. My opinion of course.

Nothing credible is being offered this time around, not even at the level of hearsay, which would be inadmissable in place of actual evidence anyway.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...a91_story.html

Like mentioned earlier, their assertions have no chance in court and appear to be not meant to win votes but to delay and sabotage a peaceful transition as well as potentially stir up violence.

The violence has been pretty much one-sided going back to "Umbrella Man" in Minneapolis.

The recession / depression will only deepen through the combination of malfeasance and sabotage that is currently being exhibited.

The question was: So, do we know if there was meaningful/effective voter fraud? The answer is: yes we know. (in this case, no, no meaningful/effective voter fraud)

8bit

Agree with this. As a "normal" (relatively speaking!) US citizen, I think the entire "questioning the vote" effort is essentially a temper tantrum from what should be an adult. I have seen many elections and have never seen anything like the circus going on now.

Thankfully I have faith in the legal system to weed this garbage out. I have to faith in SOMETHING because right now, it is all being tested...

OK, sorry, initially misunderstood! Thank you for clarifying.

Whether there was voter fraud or not is immaterial. One side will accuse the other of fraud - usually the losing side of course - as a bit of political pantomime to whip up supporters into a frenzy. The aim is to make the new administration seem illegitimate in the eyes of the electorate. Gutter politics? Yes, but politics descended into the gutter long ago.

There's a minor amount of fraud in every election, but no one has provided evidence of widespread and substantive fraud here. The kind of thing Tekk and others have brought up looks more like gossip to me.

But I still wonder if Trump is really just being a spoilt child or whether he is playing a longer game. Can some of the Americans here tell us ignorant foreigners whether the US Supreme Court has any authority to decide these matters if Trump keeps appealing the verdicts of lower courts (as I'm sure he will)? I know that electoral rules are the province of the states, but can a final appeal be made at the federal level? Because we all know how important it was for Trump to squeeze his nominee into the Supreme Court before the election.