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Old 08-25-2017, 11:33 PM   #16
enorbet
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sundialsvcs View Post
I think that the operative word is ... totality. If the sun did not disappear from the sky, you really didn't experience a solar eclipse. And if it did, well ...
sundialsvcs - Is the reason you say this and perhaps also why you ask if it "was a religious experience" because of the odd and wonderful coincidence (aside - wow! is that word spot on at least apparently here on Planet Earth) of the sizes and distances that create what appears as almost exactly the right apparent size so that totality is just right for humans to see it this way?

At some point in the past when the Moon was closer the corona and diamond ring effects would not happen to a viewer (an inquisitive T-Rex?) and at some point in the future there will be no totality possible. To some this may be religious in the sense of humans deserving some special status in Time and Space but it simply isn't that way. The window for totality even varies in these times by more than 3% due to elliptical orbits and overall that window of opportunity is roughly 100,000,000 years wide in which a totality is even possible. Since nobody alive today would consider a human ancestor of only 1,000,000 years ago as obviously human, so far we have existed for roughly 1% of that window of opportunity and it's anybody's guess if we shall be around in 50,000,000 years when the epoch of Totality ends.

We are just rather lucky to be in the middle. It may even be that such a dramatic sky event having actual consequences here on Earth is a large part of why humans evolved with so much concern for the Totality of our place in the Universe whether conclusions were reasonable or fanciful.
 
Old 08-26-2017, 05:51 AM   #17
ondoho
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sundialsvcs View Post
I think that the operative word is ... totality. If the sun did not disappear from the sky, you really didn't experience a solar eclipse. And if it did, well ...
erm.

did you actually see it?
the sun doesn't really disappear from the sky (with all the implications that would bring, like complete darkness), it's nowhere near that dramatic.

but i see where you're coming from - the old people, living in constant fear of god's wrath...

i thought of "religious" as something profound and positive...
 
Old 08-26-2017, 06:03 AM   #18
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Yes
No
No

I am a scientist. I found it moving, a wonderful experience that I would recommend to anyone, but not a religious experience.
 
Old 08-26-2017, 04:31 PM   #19
enorbet
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Just for reference on totality, a high rez photo (you can see a solar flare! )

--- TOTALITY ---
 
Old 08-28-2017, 08:50 AM   #20
MensaWater
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ondoho View Post
it's nowhere near that dramatic.
Totality was quite dramatic in my opinion.

Did YOU see the totality?

While the 99% or less was interesting and worth watching just for its rarity it did not prepare one for the totality. It is hard to believe anyone who saw the totality could imply it wasn't dramatic.
 
Old 08-28-2017, 09:34 AM   #21
sundialsvcs
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No, I don't live in fear of "God's wrath." I do find it ... a remarkable coincidence ... that the size and position of the Moon is e-x-a-c-t-l-y correct to produce the totality effect. (But, I don't endeavor to explain it, nor to explain it away.)

Yes, I most-certainly did see it, and (as many "eclipse-ophiles" have said) the first time you see it, you kinda sorta forget about everything else. Sure, it's a phenomenon of nature. But, it's quite an indescribable one. The sun is gone, for a minute or two, and there is a cold ring of fire in the sky. Except that it consists of constantly-flickering, otherworldly flame. It begins and ends with the "diamond ring" and you might or might not see beads where the light of the sun passes beside mountains on the Moon. (The size and position of the Moon is that precise.)

The 2017 eclipse was probably seen by more people than any other, because it passed directly across the entire length of a densely populated country and passed across major population centers all across its route ... in the age of the Internet.

I could have posed the last half of the question just as well as: "did the experience of seeing it, change you?" Or, as I did. I'm not afraid of religion. I don't deny it.

Last edited by sundialsvcs; 08-28-2017 at 09:36 AM.
 
Old 08-28-2017, 03:57 PM   #22
enorbet
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Well since the window of opportunity for apparent Totality is 100,000,000 years wide " e-x-a-c-t-l-y " does involve considerable "wiggle room".
 
Old 08-28-2017, 03:58 PM   #23
ondoho
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MensaWater View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by ondoho View Post
it's nowhere near that dramatic.
Totality was quite dramatic in my opinion.

Did YOU see the totality?
please don't misquote me.

the full quote read thus:
Quote:
Originally Posted by ondoho View Post
the sun doesn't really disappear from the sky (with all the implications that would bring, like complete darkness), it's nowhere near that dramatic.

and according to this:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_...1999Aug11T.png
i DID experience it. I was in Hungary, near Balaton that day. In the mountains.

Maybe there was just plenty of other crazy stuff going on in my life at that time...

or maybe i don't like to look for god in superlatives.
...
 
Old 08-28-2017, 07:47 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ondoho View Post
please don't misquote me...
While I didn't see it myself, I think everyone has their own view on the meaning for "totality" and it can be interpreted in many different ways, by many different people (which we all are). In other words, I think it can mean different things for different people.

I think in all fairness to everyone, if you found it to be a "religious experience" then good for you (and I'm not trying to be smart ether). If I did see it myself, I'm not sure I'd say it's a "religious experience" but, that's just me.

I would agree that the "scientific definition" would be what ondoho said in post #12 but having said that, maybe for some, for them it may well have been a "religious experience" and once again, I wouldn't be begrudging them of that (don't mean to be rude or single anyone out ether).

I just think it's one of those things were everyone's views are valid, weather it's "scientifically correct" or not.

Also in all fairness to ondoho, I don't see why anyone would want to lie about that (or what would be gained from lying about it).

I'm no scientist, BTW (not trying to suggest I am ether).
 
Old 08-29-2017, 01:32 AM   #25
enorbet
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Hmmm while everyone has some element of subjectivity, objectivity has proven to be the best path to validity. Subjectivity has brought us Unicorns, Faeries, Vampires, Chariots driven dutifully across the sky and Dragons devouring the Sun. I fail to trust the validity of that and accommodating that tends to create that Politically Correct state of No Opinion, No Stance. Beware the frumious bandersnatch!
 
Old 08-29-2017, 04:05 AM   #26
jsbjsb001
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enorbet View Post
Hmmm while everyone has some element of subjectivity, objectivity has proven to be the best path to validity. Subjectivity has brought us Unicorns, Faeries, Vampires, Chariots driven dutifully across the sky and Dragons devouring the Sun. I fail to trust the validity of that and accommodating that tends to create that Politically Correct state of No Opinion, No Stance. Beware the frumious bandersnatch!
I think you'll be safe, enorbet.

I will admit, I try to take the middle ground wherever possible, sometimes (depending on the issue) I will agree or disagree/take a stand where need be. I would say I'm probably center-left politically speaking, but usually I find the truth is somewhere in-between, I'm not going to lie. But I would rather take the middle ground wherever possible, once again, I'm not going to lie.

I do think your a fearless debater and I DO honesty respect that about you.

I do find your posts interesting and food for thought, keep it up!

Last edited by jsbjsb001; 08-29-2017 at 05:26 AM. Reason: additions/changes to wording/corrections
 
Old 08-29-2017, 08:45 AM   #27
MensaWater
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ondoho View Post
please don't misquote me.

or maybe i don't like to look for god in superlatives.
...
I certainly quoted what I thought was the relevant part and made my point about it. I don't know what it was like in Hungary in 1999 but in the part of Tennessee I was in in 2017 it was extremely dramatic in my view. Hence my question as to whether you saw the "totality" (vs just a 99% or less eclipse). It seemed unlikely to me anyone who had ever seen it would not find it "dramatic".

At least what I said was from what you posted. If you look at my initial post in this thread you'll see I answered "no" to the question about it being a religious experience so you making the comment about god is quite off in response to anything I said.
 
Old 08-29-2017, 08:58 AM   #28
MensaWater
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jsbjsb001 View Post
I think everyone has their own view on the meaning for "totality" and it can be interpreted in many different ways, by many different people (which we all are).
I disagree. "Totality" in an eclipse has a specific definition:

Quote:
to·tal·i·ty
tōˈtalədē/
noun
noun: totality; plural noun: totalities

the whole of something.
"the totality of their current policies"
synonyms: entirety, wholeness, fullness, completeness; More
whole, total, aggregate, sum, sum total;
all, everything
"the concept is difficult to grasp in its totality"
Astronomy
the moment or duration of total obscuration of the sun or moon during an eclipse.
I'll agree that different people might react very differently to the "totality" but if you only saw 99% or less you really don't know what the actual "totality" was. The way the sun looked just before and just after "totality" as well as the entire period from the start of the occlusion to the very end was certainly an experience worthy of one's time but it simply didn't prepare one for what "totality" looked like in that 2 minute period.

Last edited by MensaWater; 08-29-2017 at 10:30 AM.
 
Old 08-29-2017, 09:39 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MensaWater View Post
I disagree. "Totality" in an eclipse has a specific definition:

I'll agree that different people might react very differently to the "totality" but if you only saw 99% or less you really don't know what the actual "totality" was. The way the sun looked just before and just after "totality" as well as the entire period from the start of the occlusion to the very end was certainly an experience worthy of one's time but it simply didn't prepare one for what "totality" looked like in that 2 minutes period.
Well, you (or should I say "I" in this case) learn something new everyday, I did not know there was a "Totality" in an eclipse "specific definition".

There you go...

Last edited by jsbjsb001; 08-29-2017 at 09:41 AM.
 
Old 08-29-2017, 09:53 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jsbjsb001 View Post
Well, you (or should I say "I" in this case) learn something new everyday, I did not know there was a "Totality" in an eclipse "specific definition".

There you go...
Technically, the eclipse shadow has three parts: umbra, penumbra and antumbra. Anyone observing the sun at the time is witnessing the event, but only those within the umbra experience a totality. I have, during different events, witnessed different degrees of eclipse. Totality is a very different experience, and one that offers better opportunity to make interesting observations.
 
  


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