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View Poll Results: Human Caused Climate Change is Real?
Yes 40 70.18%
No. It's a Hoax 13 22.81%
Jury Isn't In Yet 4 7.02%
Voters: 57. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 11-07-2019, 01:15 AM   #571
jsbjsb001
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Well enorbet, while I do actually agree with a lot of what you say, I still maintain what I said before.

The main point here is that, to really have a decent chance at dealing with climate change, it's going to take government, business and the individual person working as one to have much hope of that. Again, we can talk about it all you like, that doesn't mean any of the "deniers" are going to change their mind, even if you provided them with all the evidence in the world. Like I said before, I don't fault your intentions, but all the good intentions in the world still don't equal action, certainly not beating the same drum in the hopes the "deniers" are suddenly going to "wake up and smell the roses". I can tell you now, the government where I live doesn't believe in climate change, and more to the point, the Coal industry has them in their pocket. So unless they accept that cleaner ways have to be found and there needs to be a move away from things like Coal (which they don't accept), then you can write all the letters in the world, it ain't going to do anything - let alone change anything. Perhaps if people here weren't so passive and had some balls to stand up to the government, and more than just a very few did, then maybe things could change. But I'm sorry to say that most people here just haven't got the sack to stand up to the government here, unless maybe people don't get paid, then maybe you might be in with fighting chance. So unfortunately, the gutless vastly out number the few that do have some balls here. I can write all the letters I like, it ain't going to change that. Nothing you say here will change that either. And good luck with your country's current "President" doing anything meaningful about climate change...

And as I was also saying before, when you limit your thinking to what we "currently know about XYZ", then you've pretty much already admitted defeat, and therefore you will never find a way to do it. I'll bet you anything you like back in the day, if you said commercial air travel was going to become a reality, people would have laughed at you and then called you crazy. Well guess what? I took two bothers to believe that it was in fact possible, and then they proved it. So again, it's a bit rich to demand people take action on climate change if you want to continue to doubt possibilities like interstellar travel.
 
Old 11-07-2019, 03:41 AM   #572
enorbet
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Hello again jsbjsb001
I'm not going to respond to all of your last post because I do understand and largely agree with your assessment of social, commercial, and governmental conditions that resist any manner of change. I just can't sit back and do nothing and I accept that my efforts may accomplish nothing more than a no-comfort "I told ya so and I did what I thought I could" when serious disasters begin. I'm not going down without a scrap.

I do want to respond to your last line though even though it flirts with being OT and has been addressed in other threads. I am an engineer, mostly in electronics since right after college my chosen field, astrophysics, was beginning to dry up circa 1970 and I had to abandon my childhood dreams and efforts. I had been building rockets from scratch from the time I was 11. I was extremely fortunate my parents trusted me and didn't worry I'd blow the house up. If you've ever seen the film October Sky in many ways that guy was me. Maybe it was growing up in West Virginia in a coal town with no job options but working in those mines, but for whatever reason he never gave up and I bailed for what seemed more lucrative opportunities... yeah the foibles of Youth.

In any case I have kept up with the Science of astrophysics and engineering and while I really don't wish to crush your dreams and only hope to make them deal with the real, I seriously doubt you grasp the monumental obstacle interstellar distances pose. Chemical rockets cannot do it. Even with multiple gravity assists adding tremendous velocity to chemically lifted spacecraft the fastest spacecraft ever built, the Parker Solar Probe, is expected to only reach a whopping 430,000 mph. Please let that sink in a moment and notice the words "only" and "whopping" in the same sentence. It is whopping because that is, or will be when it completes the numerous assists, an incredible achievement but it is also "only" because even that is but 0.064% (0.00064) the speed of light.

One might imagine "Gee that means we only need to increase that speed by a factor of roughly 1700 times that speed to reach light speed and that at least makes interstellar travel theoretically doable since that means we could reach the nearest star in just 4.4 years or a little over 50 months. Unfortunately this is not the case by a long shot. As Velocity increases so does Mass and it isn't linear, it is logarithmic. By the time we even approach 1% the speed of light the law of diminishing returns becomes monstrous. For every incremental increase in speed we need an ever increasing increment of fuel or power, which increases engineering problems and fuel required all of which at the very least add even more to that exponentially increasing Mass. Even ion and nuclear rocket engines face essentially insurmountable engineering and technology problems even achieving just 1% of light speed. One percent light speed means that 4.4 year trip becomes 440 years.

To get any faster than that requires orders of magnitude more energy per unit mass of fuel and the most densely powerful force we know of is from antimatter. Currently we can manufacture just a few atoms at a time of antimatter and we would need pounds of it to achieve the power required to reach even 4% of light speeed IF we had the faintest of clues how to even begin developing the means to harness such awesome energy of which a few molecules makes the Tsar Bomb the equivalent of the energy released when a feather falls to the ground... literally. This is not hyperbole or a figure of speech. We are talking about levels of power approaching that of actual stars like our Sun.

I'm not saying that is forever impossible but how long do you imagine it will be before humans can safely harness 100% of the power of our Sun? I find this incredibly depressing but it is the sad facts. It is entirely possible for many reasons but even just from this one fundamental issue of energy and velocity combined with human lifetimes, but humans may actually never be able to travel to another star let alone ones of far greater distances that have earth-like planets orbiting them. It's just how it really is.

I love the story of the Wright Brothers and all our early aviation pioneers. I bet I've read 100 books on the history and those heroes. They knew heavier than air craft could fly because some seeds, animals, and kites can fly. We knew about them and Elon Musk had he lived back then could have done a spreadsheet on how much lift and power was required to duplicate what we could see already. The Wright Brothers did the equivalent of that to design the gliders of Kitty Hawk. The distance between them and their detractors is as nothing compared to the difference between where we are now and how far humans must advance to even imagine any actual means to effectively reach the stars. There is nothing but light that we know of that can travel at light speed and nothing else even remotely close. Even matter on the event horizon of black holes or jets from their poles only reach small percentages of light speed (roughly less than .25 light speed).

Yes I know Ion and solar wind systems can theoretically achieve fairly high percentages of light speed but not only do we not know what problems such speeds present, we also have to consider that both are not only incredibly slow builds but halfway there they must begin to decelerate in order to actually arrive and not just whiz on by. Interstellar travel is at the very best many, many generations away, quite possibly hundreds of generations and even possibly never. Do the Math. That's not going to change.
 
Old 11-09-2019, 10:42 AM   #573
rokytnji
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Back to earth here. A online bud let me know Australia is already burning at the beginning of their summer.
 
Old 11-09-2019, 10:50 AM   #574
jsbjsb001
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rokytnji View Post
Back to earth here. A online bud let me know Australia is already burning at the beginning of their summer.
Yes, New South Wales and Queensland I believe. Apparently bushfires/wildfires have their "own weather systems".

And it's only going to get worse too...
 
Old 11-09-2019, 11:48 AM   #575
michaelk
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As of 6 Nov 2019 our President has started the official year long process of withdrawing from the Paris Climate Agreement. At the same time he has rolled back protection of fresh water contamination from coal mining and power plants dumping and unlined ash pits. In addition to all the other EPA rules trying to be eliminated or being rolled back. Which means increased green house gases and air pollution. The one reason as being to much of an economic burden. Which is just an excuse for the oil and gas companies not being able to make big profits.
 
Old 11-09-2019, 04:11 PM   #576
ondoho
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^ I wonder when we'll start seeing asylum seekers from the States.
Welcome anytime!
 
Old 11-09-2019, 06:14 PM   #577
fido_dogstoyevsky
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rokytnji View Post
Back to earth here. A online bud let me know Australia is already burning at the beginning of their summer.
Actually still officially spring.

Edit:

https://www.abc.net.au/
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-11-...rives/11694264 (Sydney is Australia's largest city for population)

Last edited by fido_dogstoyevsky; 11-11-2019 at 04:26 PM.
 
  


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