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Old 10-03-2017, 11:03 AM   #76
dave@burn-it.co.uk
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With his lips, the most horrible threat Trump could make ould be to KISS him to death.
 
Old 10-03-2017, 11:05 AM   #77
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Originally Posted by dave@burn-it.co.uk View Post
With his lips, the most horrible threat Trump could make ould be to KISS him to death.
What does that even mean??
 
Old 10-03-2017, 11:54 AM   #78
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jsbjsb001, "the world is waiting for the United States to do something" because, historically, that's what the United States has always done. Even in the original Korean War, the United States was the one sending troops and thumping its chest ... all, ultimately, to no avail.

Kim is confident that, if he only acts provocatively enough, he will draw The United States back into the protracted War, frozen in time for fifty years, which is the only reason why anyone knows that his (still, puppet ...) regime or country even exists.

If, instead, the United States is agile enough to force this to continue to be regarded as a world problem ... as it quite-properly is ... then the stratagems of Kim and of his handlers will be frustrated, and he will be faced with the only opponent that he truly fears:

China.

The World community has become conditioned to the idea that the United States will single-handedly do their fighting for them, and that all "UN troops" have to do is to have token involvement in what remains "an American show." But this US President, at least so far, is talking differently about, and to(!), the United Nations.

We have never yet had a conflict in which an inter-continental ballistic missile(!) was fired in anger, but this is effectively what North Korea is now doing. The world community is now being confronted with what their "toys" are actually capable of doing, and that everyone(!) is "in range" of what some damned fool sold to a very, very dangerous group of psychopaths who are now in control of North Korea.

Last edited by sundialsvcs; 10-03-2017 at 11:56 AM.
 
Old 10-03-2017, 12:29 PM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sundialsvcs View Post
jsbjsb001, "the world is waiting for the United States to do something" because, historically, that's what the United States has always done. Even in the original Korean War, the United States was the one sending troops and thumping its chest ... all, ultimately, to no avail. ...
Well yes, I do agree with you BUT the rest of the world is too spineless to act without the US. So like it or not, unfortunately, it always seems to be the US that the world looks to. I don't like it anymore than you do, but the only other option is to 'hope' that China steps in and given history, it's not much of a hope.

Also, there are examples where force HAS been used successfully, to end conflicts. Yes it's not the preferred option (and nor should it be), but once again like it or not, unfortunately, sometimes is the ONLY viable option.

The ONLY other option would be to do nothing and let a psychopath, do as he pleases. In which case, what is the point of even having things like the UN, human rights, etc?

Well there is NO point, is there?
 
Old 10-03-2017, 12:39 PM   #80
ondoho
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sundialsvcs View Post
jsbjsb001, "the world is waiting for the United States to do something" because, historically, that's what the United States has always done.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsbjsb001 View Post
Well yes, I do agree with you BUT the rest of the world is too spineless to act without the US. So like it or not, unfortunately, it always seems to be the US that the world looks to.
good you 2 finally came out of the closet with these unambiguous statements.

and in case somebody doesn't get the sarcasm in that remark:

i am part of that "rest of the world", and i'm telling you that this is completely wrong.
we are not waiting for the us to save the day. quite the opposite - many of us fear for the day the us decides it's important to get involved again.
just look where it got us the last half dozen times.
just look closely who really benefited from it.
only somebody so engrossed in the country they live in, and so brainwashed into believing that it's the greatest country of them all, that they cannot see beyond their own nose, could possible conceive a statement like that.
phooey.
 
Old 10-03-2017, 01:32 PM   #81
jsbjsb001
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Originally Posted by ondoho View Post
good you 2 finally came out of the closet with these unambiguous statements.

and in case somebody doesn't get the sarcasm in that remark:

i am part of that "rest of the world", and i'm telling you that this is completely wrong.
we are not waiting for the us to save the day. quite the opposite - many of us fear for the day the us decides it's important to get involved again.
just look where it got us the last half dozen times.
just look closely who really benefited from it.
only somebody so engrossed in the country they live in, and so brainwashed into believing that it's the greatest country of them all, that they cannot see beyond their own nose, could possible conceive a statement like that.
phooey.
Sorry, but I think I've been pretty clear in ALL of my statements; and I don't think your understanding the point I'm making here. And in sundialsvcs's defence, I think he/she has also been pretty clear in their statements.

In any case, it's NOT about ONE country (being the US), and to try once again, in the point I'm trying to make;

I am also a part of the "rest of world" and once again (and for the final time), the rest of world does not generally act against a another country (militarily speaking), without the US being involved. Particularly when you are taking about major conflicts and there are not a lot of examples otherwise.

Should the UN Security Council be able to come to a majority decision WITH the world's support to decide such things? YES, they should!! But once again, when the rest of the world sits back and waits for the US to act first, the ONLY OTHER OPTION is to let a madman do what he likes! That's the point!

Is that right or just? NO, it is NOT! But, that's the way the world works! Like it or not.

Do I like it? NO, I don't!

Last edited by jsbjsb001; 10-03-2017 at 01:34 PM.
 
Old 10-03-2017, 02:16 PM   #82
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I would like to know your opinions about this part:

Quote:
We face this decision not only in North Korea. It is far past time for the nations of the world to confront another reckless regime -- one that speaks openly of mass murder, vowing death to America, destruction to Israel, and ruin for many leaders and nations in this room.

The Iranian government masks a corrupt dictatorship behind the false guise of a democracy. It has turned a wealthy country with a rich history and culture into an economically depleted rogue state whose chief exports are violence, bloodshed, and chaos. The longest-suffering victims of Iran's leaders are, in fact, its own people.

Rather than use its resources to improve Iranian lives, its oil profits go to fund Hezbollah and other terrorists that kill innocent Muslims and attack their peaceful Arab and Israeli neighbors. This wealth, which rightly belongs to Iran's people, also goes to shore up Bashar al-Assad's dictatorship, fuel Yemen's civil war, and undermine peace throughout the entire Middle East.

We cannot let a murderous regime continue these destabilizing activities while building dangerous missiles, and we cannot abide by an agreement if it provides cover for the eventual construction of a nuclear program. (Applause.) The Iran Deal was one of the worst and most one-sided transactions the United States has ever entered into. Frankly, that deal is an embarrassment to the United States, and I don’t think you’ve heard the last of it -- believe me.

It is time for the entire world to join us in demanding that Iran's government end its pursuit of death and destruction. It is time for the regime to free all Americans and citizens of other nations that they have unjustly detained. And above all, Iran's government must stop supporting terrorists, begin serving its own people, and respect the sovereign rights of its neighbors.

The entire world understands that the good people of Iran want change, and, other than the vast military power of the United States, that Iran's people are what their leaders fear the most. This is what causes the regime to restrict Internet access, tear down satellite dishes, shoot unarmed student protestors, and imprison political reformers.

Oppressive regimes cannot endure forever, and the day will come when the Iranian people will face a choice. Will they continue down the path of poverty, bloodshed, and terror? Or will the Iranian people return to the nation's proud roots as a center of civilization, culture, and wealth where their people can be happy and prosperous once again?

The Iranian regime's support for terror is in stark contrast to the recent commitments of many of its neighbors to fight terrorism and halt its financing.
 
Old 10-03-2017, 04:46 PM   #83
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All should jump in a lake.

...before any ask
Quote:
What does that even mean??
take it literally!
 
Old 10-03-2017, 07:08 PM   #84
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Remember that the UN's security council choices include more than warfare. I think that, while many governments pursue peace and the advancement of their citizens, some are rogues. The US President, in his address, identified two of these by name but also spoke to the bigger issue – that rogue regimes always have helpers, and they pursue their evil because they feel that they can get away with it. Warfare is not the only course of action that can be taken, nor is it usually the best one.

Diplomacy seems boring, but it works.
 
Old 10-04-2017, 01:14 AM   #85
enorbet
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At it's base, diplomacy is or can be just words unless followed by action. The sort of action to which I refer is providing one's cautious semi-enemies with a "proposition they can't refuse" and I don't mean that in The Godfather sense of that phrase. What I mean is barring some invention, event, whatever that can cause a giant leap for one nation or alliance of nations over conflicting nations the best one can hope for is maintaining a balance of power all the while slowly increasing interdependency.

For example with what the US provides China, how much we in turn owe them, and the high cost of actual warfare, it is now quite unlikely that the US will be invaded by China or vice versa. We need each other to an extent it just wouldn't be a wise move. This has become especially true since the 20th Century considering that the major gains anymore from warfare are mostly internal, for the corporations that provide the tools of war, but other suffer and as we all have seen there is a huge gulf between defeating an enemy and occupying his territory, which is where most of the wealth, would be spoils, lie.

Currently there is some compound value to Russia and China trading with North Korea. Either making that more costly or proving a Bigger and Better Deal that (and please forgive the horrid pun) trumps the NK deal is probably the only means of affecting slower, longer-lasting and relatively peaceful change in that region. It remains to be seen if President Donald Trump has enough political as well as business savvy to make such a deal. As much as I dislike what I know of the man and everything I think he stands for, I sincerely hope he can and does succeed since I don't give a ratzass which party gets the credit, I just would prefer that to what we could easily blunder into.

Incidentally I chose "blunder" carefully because despite rather intensive study I still to this day cannot fathom how anyone can state that WW I's ignition point was the assassination of Duke Ferdinand. It seems so minor compared to even the risk of the horrors of WW I which were not totally hidden since there were "dress rehearsals" for the devilry of mechanized warfare.
 
Old 10-04-2017, 01:55 AM   #86
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http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...-a6995186.html

No oil?
 
Old 10-04-2017, 01:58 AM   #87
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The only thing that works is educating, even before our parents..!
 
Old 10-04-2017, 02:52 AM   #88
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Quote:
We cannot let a murderous regime continue these destabilizing activities while building dangerous missiles,
i totally agree.
i think the USA should blow _themselves_ into orbit.
 
Old 10-04-2017, 03:17 AM   #89
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If all of us then yours too.edWE
 
Old 10-04-2017, 10:09 AM   #90
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The USA is Rambo...
 
  


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