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Old 01-28-2016, 04:35 PM   #16
Timothy Miller
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Yes, earth's Climate is cyclical. And if you read any REPUTABLE scientific survey, you'll notice in the last ~100 years, the earth has proceeded ~100,000 years of climate change. Plain and simple, we've affected it. We've caused it to accelerate towards the next ice age.
 
Old 01-28-2016, 04:37 PM   #17
Steven_G
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Timothy Miller View Post
Yes, earth's Climate is cyclical. And if you read any REPUTABLE scientific survey, you'll notice in the last ~100 years, the earth has proceeded ~100,000 years of climate change. Plain and simple, we've affected it. We've caused it to accelerate towards the next ice age.
So now it's an ice age? I thought last week it was all the ice is going to melt and drown us?
 
Old 01-28-2016, 04:56 PM   #18
Timothy Miller
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steven_G View Post
So now it's an ice age? I thought last week it was all the ice is going to melt and drown us?
Do you not understand how climate change works?

World temperature rises, melting polar caps. Oceans rise, MASSIVELY increasing the amount of oceanic algae, and throwing off the functioning of the gulf stream. Algae consume increased amount of co2, MASSIVELY reducing greenhouse effect, combined with the gulf stream no longer circulating warm air from warmer (equatorial) regions. "World" freezes (Most of Europe, Canada, Iceland, most of the Eastern US being the world in this ice age. Not a Great ice age, but a mini ice age).

This is simple scientific cause and affect. Global warning causes an ice age.

Last edited by Timothy Miller; 01-28-2016 at 05:01 PM.
 
Old 01-28-2016, 05:00 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by Timothy Miller View Post
Do you not understand how climate change works?

World temperature rises, melting polar caps. Oceans rise, MASSIVELY increasing the amount of oceanic algae. Algae consume increased amount of co2, MASSIVELY reducing greenhouse effect. World freezes.

This is simple scientific cause and affect. Global warning causes an ice age.
I just want to know which one is going to happen in the next 10 years on the Al Gore time line?

State of the Climate: 10 years after Al Gore declared a ‘planetary emergency’ – top 10 reasons Gore was wrong
 
Old 01-28-2016, 05:04 PM   #20
Timothy Miller
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In the next 10 years, probably nothing. We've not affect climate so horrendously that it's beyond the realm of healing yet. But 50 years from now if we as a species doesn't change, you'll be looking at rising oceans and many of the beach-front properties that are worth so much money today are underwater, and small island nations are now MIA.
 
Old 01-28-2016, 05:14 PM   #21
Steven_G
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Originally Posted by Timothy Miller View Post
In the next 10 years, probably nothing. We've not affect climate so horrendously that it's beyond the realm of healing yet. But 50 years from now if we as a species doesn't change, you'll be looking at rising oceans and many of the beach-front properties that are worth so much money today are underwater, and small island nations are now MIA.
OK, if for just a 1/2 a second I concede, just for the sake of argument, that we *maybe* have perturbed the oscillation of a natural cycle then riddle me this:

Why will none of you folks acknowledge that Al Gore is a complete nutter lining his pockets off your enthusiasm just like the Koch's are zealots trying to make money off my being a curmudgeonly old fart?

And why do all of you just completely gloss over the friggin poisoning of the air, water and food supply; which is a far more immediate problem that is *already killing people*?

One of which was almost me. I spent two years with my internal organs rotting b/c of the poisons in our food supply.
 
Old 01-28-2016, 07:08 PM   #22
Timothy Miller
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I do believe several people in this thread alone have agreed that Gore is a nutcase. Personally, I'm of the opinion that there is no such thing as a good non-first term politician in the US. You cannot have a good heart, and be truly trying to help people, and spend more than a single term in the political machine that is the US Government. If you last more than a term, it means you are morally bankrupt and only care about $$$$. But that's politics, not science.

Poisoning of the air is WHAT has caused our influence of climate change. Saying that humans have influenced climate change is indirectly saying that we've horrendously polluted the air.

The water because quite frankly most water systems are actually quite robust, and if they are STOPPED being harmed, clean themselves rather quickly (algae for the win). So poisoning our water supply would be easy to fix. Stop dumping death into it.

As far as the food supply, that's not universal. Only a few countries are horrendously poisoning the food supply, the US simply is the forefront of that.

But you come in ranting about climate change in the title, so...you glossed over these other things as well. You gloss over them, the replies will gloss over them. It's kinda how most forums work.

Last edited by Timothy Miller; 01-28-2016 at 07:12 PM.
 
Old 01-28-2016, 07:29 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Timothy Miller View Post
I do believe several people in this thread alone have agreed that Gore is a nutcase. Personally, I'm of the opinion that there is no such thing as a good non-first term politician in the US. You cannot have a good heart, and be truly trying to help people, and spend more than a single term in the political machine that is the US Government. If you last more than a term, it means you are morally bankrupt and only care about $$$$. But that's politics, not science.
OK, now we have taken 1/2 a baby step towards almost having a reasonable conversation.

We have almost agreed that the conversation about climate change is being driven by politics and money from the top on both sides of the question.

But, you have once again conveniently completely glossed over the fact that we are poisoning our air, water and food and it is already killing people. And I can throw you links to dozens of recent scientific studies and medical articles supporting that conclusion. Plus give you ~2k pages of medical records documenting what happened to me. And the New England Journal of Medicine just recently published an article advising physicians to talk to their patients w/ certain health issues about the effects of GMO foods on their health.

And that says nothing of things like copper leeching contaminating ground water; and almost all of your "save the planet / green" tech relies on copper. To say nothing of all the electric car batteries ending up in landfills or how much air pollution occurs from the supply chain of an electric car. (And that does not mean that oil is "good".)

And lets say that for the sake of argument that CO2 being pumped in to the air now will turn out to be a bad thing 50 years from now. What about the fact that all of the sulfur dioxide being pumped in to the air currently is *already killing people*?

Air pollution causes 200,000 early deaths each year in the U.S.


And do you, or any one else is this thread participate in the process?

As I've stated here in several threads:

When was the last time you called your Senator or Congressman?

I call both of mine on a weekly basis and comment on issues of cyber security, national security, personal privacy and security, food safety (or rather the lack thereof) and environmental poisoning.

------

Edit:

We cross posted on your edit.

Last edited by Steven_G; 01-28-2016 at 07:30 PM.
 
Old 01-28-2016, 08:01 PM   #24
Timothy Miller
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steven_G View Post
As I've stated here in several threads:

When was the last time you called your Senator or Congressman?

I call both of mine on a weekly basis and comment on issues of cyber security, national security, personal privacy and security, food safety (or rather the lack thereof) and environmental poisoning.
What's the point? They work for the lobbyists, not the people who elect them. Anyone who thinks differently is as nuts as Gore & co.
 
Old 01-28-2016, 08:03 PM   #25
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The thing is that even if you are a climate change denier you cannot ignore the matter that the environment is still very important?
And we as a race with over a billion members have some responsibility to it?
I mean come on years of putting sulfur, carbons, pesticides, CFC's and tons of other crap into the air it has to at least contribute to things.
Even if this a natural cycle we are sure as heck dont help out do we?

Last edited by MadmanRB; 01-28-2016 at 08:04 PM.
 
Old 01-28-2016, 08:15 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ntubski View Post
Category error: weather != climate.
I edited my first draft.

True, weather isn't climate, but the two are related.

One severe snowstorn in the winter or one cold snap in the summer does not negate climate change; but I grew up in the parts, and the weather here year-round is much different than it was when I was a young 'un, and not just this year, but during all the years since I moved back, like that (quite mythological) frog in the boiling water.

I notice it particularly because I moved away and came back; folks who stayed here haven't noticed it so much.

Last edited by frankbell; 01-28-2016 at 08:20 PM.
 
Old 01-28-2016, 09:06 PM   #27
dugan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Timothy Miller View Post
Do you not understand how climate change works?
Can I just speak for myself here?

No.
 
Old 01-28-2016, 09:29 PM   #28
frankbell
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It's pretty straightforward, really. Increasing the amount of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere increases the greenhouse effect. The greenhouse effect is why, when you open the door of your parked, closed-up car on a hot day, it's about 20 Fahrenheits hotter inside the car than it is outside.

We have been steadily increasing the amount of CO2 in the atmosphere since the invention of the steam engine.

Among the scientific (and scientifically knowledgeable) community, there is no controversy about climate change. It's not something you believe in, like the tooth fairy. It's fact. The controversy is fueled and fomented by persons who are invested in continuing the use and sale of fossil fuels and propagated by folks who fear change and distrust knowledge.

Climate change is neither a hoax nor a conspiracy. Climate change denial is both.

http://www3.epa.gov/climatechange/gh...gases/co2.html

Later:

I think this link is also at least tangentially relevant to this thread: http://historiann.com/2016/01/27/a-b...ical-thinking/

Full Disclosure: I trained as an historian. That may be one reason I'm a fan of Historiann and you should be too.

Last edited by frankbell; 01-28-2016 at 10:28 PM.
 
Old 01-28-2016, 09:56 PM   #29
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Regarding Al Gore: I don't know much about him, except that he once ran for president in the U.S. and also made a documentary about global warming. But even if his actions were pushed by some lobby as the OP say, this doesn't deny the fact that global warming is being caused by high levels of CO2 in the atmosphere.

By the way, I live in a country which economy depends on oil export in about 80% (or probably even more than that!); however I think that our civilization urgently needs to find clean and alternative energy sources. Not only are fossil fuels very polluting, but they're also limited (finite) resources, and won't last forever (some people say they may last for less than a century while others say they may last a bit longer than one century). So, human civilization needs to prepare for this and plan accordingly.

Last edited by Hungry ghost; 01-29-2016 at 02:28 PM.
 
Old 01-28-2016, 10:37 PM   #30
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Al Gore is a good and decent man--not perfect, but who is?

odiseo77, I live in an area which is heavily dependent on shipping, particularly the shipping of coal. I understand the struggle of profit today versus long-term benefit tomorrow. Sadly, history teaches us that the short-term beats the long-term every day of the week and twice on Sundays.

I expect that most of the city in which I live will be under water within 50 years. I won't be here for it, but I fear for my children.
 
  


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