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06-07-2023, 01:54 AM
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#16
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LQ Guru
Registered: Mar 2016
Location: Harrow, UK
Distribution: LFS, AntiX, Slackware
Posts: 8,142
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slac-in-the-box
If you want to start a business but don't have the credit-score to open a business checking (not because you took a bunch of money and didn't pay it back; but merely because you never borrowed anything in the first place, and thus have a score of 0), you at least can accept cryptocurrencies...
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This credit-scoring gotcha doesn't only affect businesses. I have no credit record because I have never been in debt. I often think it would be nice to have a credit card to make small purchases or donations online. I don't want to use my debit card because it's directly linked to my bank account, and a pre-loaded cash card always comes with a monthly fee (which makes it expensive unless you use it a lot). But this problem isn't caused by the use of central bank currency. It's caused by the use of computer algorithms to evaluate credit-worthiness. In the old days, it was a human bank manager who decided if you should have a credit card, not an algorithm, and it was obvious to such a person that if you had no debts, you must be the kind of person who paid their debts promptly. The answer therefore isn't cryptocurrency but the restoration of the local semi-independent bank manager.
Incidently, not all cryptocurrencies require "proof of work" to mint tokens. There are other kinds of authorisation which are less energy-intensive. But I don't know of any kind of crypto which can solve the problem of massive swings in value, and nothing which doesn't have a (fairly) fixed value can do the work of money.
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06-07-2023, 02:29 PM
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#17
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Member
Registered: Mar 2010
Location: oregon
Distribution: slackware64-15.0 / slarm64-current
Posts: 816
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hazel
This credit-scoring gotcha doesn't only affect businesses. I have no credit record because I have never been in debt. I often think it would be nice to have a credit card to make small purchases or donations online. I don't want to use my debit card because it's directly linked to my bank account, and a pre-loaded cash card always comes with a monthly fee (which makes it expensive unless you use it a lot). But this problem isn't caused by the use of central bank currency. It's caused by the use of computer algorithms to evaluate credit-worthiness. In the old days, it was a human bank manager who decided if you should have a credit card, not an algorithm, and it was obvious to such a person that if you had no debts, you must be the kind of person who paid their debts promptly. The answer therefore isn't cryptocurrency but the restoration of the local semi-independent bank manager.
Incidently, not all cryptocurrencies require "proof of work" to mint tokens. There are other kinds of authorisation which are less energy-intensive. But I don't know of any kind of crypto which can solve the problem of massive swings in value, and nothing which doesn't have a (fairly) fixed value can do the work of money.
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I was like you, with a zero score, because I just saved up for what I wanted, and didn't borrow. I was able to use my debit card for most things. When vacationing in Australia, I used my debit card to rent a vehicle from Hertz, and drove it so fast around their continent, that I received dozens of speeding tickets from hidden camera/radars. I never paid them to see if my USA insurance would notice... it never did.
But then in good old Chicago, USA, car theft capital of the world, I got off a train and tried to rent a car from Hertz, and they would not accept my debit card. In chicago, only a credit card would work, because appparently kids from the hood would use their first debit/visas to rent cars, and the cars never were returned, so more stringent methods were required.
Anyways, I got so mad, I went and bought a car instead of renting one (not new, of course). But buying and selling cars everywhere I want to go is a hassle, and eventually I gave in and got a credit card just so I can rent cars when I travel.
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06-07-2023, 09:00 PM
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#18
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LQ Guru
Registered: Feb 2004
Location: SE Tennessee, USA
Distribution: Gentoo, LFS
Posts: 11,097
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There's actually nothing wrong about "credit" as long as you can get a sensible rate. But today's industry is entirely based on what used to be called usury, which used to be illegal.
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06-07-2023, 09:40 PM
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#19
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Member
Registered: Mar 2010
Location: oregon
Distribution: slackware64-15.0 / slarm64-current
Posts: 816
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sundialsvcs
@slac ...
In most "traditional" barter systems, there is no limit on obtaining "valid barter tokens." The only "twist" in this system is that, now, the "acceptable tokens" are hard and expensive to compute. (Until, inevitably, someone finds the necessary mathematical trick.)
Beyond that "obstacle," these numbers/tokens may as well be tulips.
Recent and ongoing legal cases have already demonstrated just how easily the whole system can be "gamed." The entire system depends upon so-called "exchanges" which, as it turns out, can very easily be robbed by their owners, who have access to the cash. (It should be of no surprise to anyone that the perpetrator, (or at least, "the one who took the fall") ... was less than thirty years old ...)
It also depends on "trust" which – as is the usual practice in all "con games," turns out to be entirely misplaced by the suckers.
"... and two to take him."
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yeah... and how just threat of sec suit makes one plummet and another rise -- not very stable.
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06-07-2023, 09:45 PM
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#20
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Member
Registered: Mar 2010
Location: oregon
Distribution: slackware64-15.0 / slarm64-current
Posts: 816
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sundialsvcs
There's actually nothing wrong about "credit" as long as you can get a sensible rate. But today's industry is entirely based on what used to be called usury, which used to be illegal.
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yeah... for them most part, despite local biases, I still prefer @hazel's human banker; or even the rural shopkeepers--that face to face chemistry, to this usury... I hope they make it illegal again.
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10-28-2023, 10:26 PM
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#21
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LQ Guru
Registered: Feb 2004
Location: SE Tennessee, USA
Distribution: Gentoo, LFS
Posts: 11,097
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Didn't a guy who ran a "crypto exchange" just get thrown in prison for taking advantage of that so-called "trust?"
But: Good luck getting back any of the real money that he managed to steal.
Just remember ... although technology is not "devious and cunning," just behind that technology you will find people(!) who most certainly are. A computer algorithm, no matter how carefully devised, does not operate in "a human vacuum." There are thieves everywhere.
"Caveat ... [X]" ... "And two to take him."
Last edited by sundialsvcs; 10-28-2023 at 10:28 PM.
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03-13-2024, 12:24 AM
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#22
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LQ Guru
Registered: Feb 2004
Location: SE Tennessee, USA
Distribution: Gentoo, LFS
Posts: 11,097
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If you are a creative artist who would like to explore "NFT" as a potential venue for advertising and selling your wares – "be my guest."
But, before you do so, (if you are a citizen of the United States ...), kindly visit copyright.gov and plunk down your $35 to instantaneously, online, register your proprietary claim. (Made, of course, "under penalty of perjury.") You don't need to wait for the pretty piece of paper to arrive in the mail.
"Copyright" has nothing whatsoever to do with "your car(s)," except that it serves as your "Certificate of Title."
"NFT" is a perfectly acceptable and legal way to parse out the right to use your ... property.
Last edited by sundialsvcs; 03-13-2024 at 12:26 AM.
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03-28-2024, 11:39 PM
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#23
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LQ Guru
Registered: Nov 2003
Location: Canada
Distribution: distro hopper
Posts: 11,352
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Waplanejdy
Exploring the psychology of NFTs and cryptocurrency reveals a fascinating blend of innovation, community, and identity expression within the digital economy. As highlighted by insights from https://theextensionofyou.com/, these digital assets are more than just investment vehicles; they're a way for individuals to connect with others, support artists or causes they believe in, and become part of a larger narrative. The excitement and engagement surrounding NFTs and cryptocurrencies underscore a broader shift towards valuing digital uniqueness and ownership, challenging traditional notions of value and scarcity. This evolving landscape offers exciting opportunities for creativity, collaboration, and personal growth, marking a significant milestone in our journey into the digital age.
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It is absolutely ridiculous that this spam is still here. I have report it so, so many times.
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07-13-2024, 12:03 PM
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#24
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Member
Registered: Mar 2010
Location: oregon
Distribution: slackware64-15.0 / slarm64-current
Posts: 816
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It is still fascinating. I'm not sure if it has anything to do with the purpose of a currency, whether for decentralized finance (like sushiswap), or just for a joke (like joe boden vs donald tremp coins), but there is some kind of intrinsic properties to all of their candlestick charts that create indicators that many profit from by short day-trades, buying at the troughs, and selling at the crests--especially with help of trade bots. BitDao recently had a > 500% roi in a 24hour period.
But how risky is it? Bittensor, too, was having a high roi, but it all came tumbling down when $8M of TAO (bittensor's currency) was stolen do to a trojan pip package: see their July 3rd update and their July 4th update
What a crazy world!
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07-14-2024, 08:21 AM
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#25
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LQ Guru
Registered: Feb 2004
Location: SE Tennessee, USA
Distribution: Gentoo, LFS
Posts: 11,097
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For many years, we have "exchanged 'money'" electronically. This has literally been going on since the telegraph days. But it was always "money," not "barter."
The problem with "crypto currency" is that it isn't "currency." It is not, and does not represent, "legal tender." This quickly de-evolves into "money for nothing," with the usual and inevitable consequences. (Notice how easily a kid robbed an exchange system ... the most-obvious weak point.)
"NFTs" are even worse: you are now buying and selling things, but you do not own the copyright. Therefore, the "seller" might have no legal possession of, nor the legal right to sell, the thing that he is selling. And, he can "sell it" multiple times.
In both cases: "A Fool and his money are soon parted." Also: "If it sounds too good to be true ..."
"When (not 'if') you wuz wobbed," you have no legal recourse. But you probably didn't think of that.
Last edited by sundialsvcs; 07-14-2024 at 08:24 AM.
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07-14-2024, 09:56 AM
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#26
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Member
Registered: May 2024
Location: in a house
Distribution: Slackware
Posts: 33
Rep:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sundialsvcs
The first and most-important point is that "they are not currencies at all," as in "legal tender." (...) There is: "a sucker born every minute, and two to take him."
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yeap, all of it. Nice reading, tnx.
I'd like to add a Lenin paraphrase (from State and Revolution) witch should settle the "with crypto we'll stick it to ?them?":
Money is not backed by gold or silver or leaving your computer on overnight. Money is only backed by "special bodies of armed men". (i.e police, army etc)
To be clear: if you don't have equal or greater firepower (which you don't regardless how many rifles you own), when police comes to your door and say 'this clam shell or this paper with an old guy picture is legal tender' you will comply volens nolens. Regarding 'a sucker every day..', tulip mania was already mentioned so not much to add.
I can't be bothered with NFT but somehow I remembered the nice joke from the guy at Napster (or was it Piratebay? sorry, can't remember now) who send an email with a scanned 1 buck jpg to music industry hunting him: "Here is a digital copy of the money you claim I owe you for digital copies on my site" 
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07-14-2024, 10:07 AM
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#27
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Moderator
Registered: Mar 2008
Posts: 22,284
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Bitcoin is the biggest Ponzi scheme ever created.
How much global warming does it cost?
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07-14-2024, 11:02 AM
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#28
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Member
Registered: May 2024
Location: in a house
Distribution: Slackware
Posts: 33
Rep:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jefro
Bitcoin is the biggest Ponzi scheme ever created.
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it is indeed one of the big Ponzi schemes but not "biggest". Pales in comparison with "capitalism" or let's just say for the shy among us, with the "FED printing money" Ponzi scheme.
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