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rnturn 06-06-2021 02:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheTKS (Post 6256390)
... it's long been possible for someone to record you without you knowing; the difference today isn't just that it's more common, it's that it's hard to avoid being recorded on something.

Just because you can be recorded doesn't mean it's legal. Here in the U.S., the legality of these recordings gets really complicated. Depending on the state, there are different definitions of what legal recording even is. In some states, all it takes is for one side of a conversation to agree to the recording. In others, both sides have to agree. I'm old enough to remember that it was once pretty much universal that both sides had to agree and the recording itself HAD to include a beep every 20sec or so to remind everyone that the conversation was being recorded. Now throw Alexa or other devices into the mix. Does the device owner even realize that everything uttered is being transmitted outside their house so that nobody was aware that the conversation was being recorded?

Then there's law enforcement aspect of these devices. They've gotta love 'em. No more skulking around to plant wiretaps in someone's house---the person being investigated has done that work for them. All they need is for a judge to give them the OK to have Amazon, their ISP, or whoever insert a tee into the datastream coming from 123 Maple Street and record it.

If I see one of those in a house we're visiting, there's a darned good chance that I'll ask for it to be turned off. (Or the host will find that it's been stuffed behind some sofa cushions. Finally, a good use for all those decorative pillows that many seem so keen to fill their sofas up with.)

teckk 06-06-2021 09:59 AM

Quote:

Here in the U.S., the legality of these recordings gets really complicated
I think that it just depends on who has the biggest stick. Just because "they" are doing it doesn't make it legal at all. Just means that "they" are getting away with it for now. And it takes years for complaints to work their way through the courts. 10 years sometimes.

Quote:

All they need is for a judge to give them the OK
Yup, and that doesn't meant that's legal either. The courts aren't law abiding organizations anymore. They are political operatives.

And then, some law enforcement agencies have decided that they don't have to obey the courts. Remember when the courts decided that the info collected during the homeland security collection of data in the early 2000's was illegal and had to be deleted, and 2 years later it was found that the FBI ignored them, and kept it anyway, and the courts had to threaten them with contempt?

Quote:

Does the device owner even realize that everything uttered is being transmitted outside their house so that nobody was aware that the conversation was being recorded?
And...you have no idea what that info could be used for in the future, or where it is being stored, or what hacker is intercepting it. That info could come back to get you 20 years from now when you decide that you want to run for mayor.

ondoho 06-08-2021 10:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rnturn (Post 6256787)
If I see one of those in a house we're visiting, there's a darned good chance that I'll ask for it to be turned off.

I recommend people to have this sort of civil courage.
It can be a polite request, and it should not be an issue (not during an informal get-together anyhow).
But then again, most smartphones are doing the same thing (listening, that is) and asking folks to switch them off is (unfortunately) considered a no-no nowadays. Just like it's considered normal that people talk to "themselves", something we had good fun with one or two decades ago, when people started running around with wireless headsets in their ears.
But I digress.....

Quote:

Originally Posted by rnturn (Post 6256787)
Here in the U.S., the legality ...

Thank you for specifying "in the US". Many don't do it, and I always feel it's important to point out that the situation is very different in other countries.

TheTKS 06-09-2021 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rnturn (Post 6256787)
If I see one of those in a house we're visiting, there's a darned good chance that I'll ask for it to be turned off. (Or the host will find that it's been stuffed behind some sofa cushions. Finally, a good use for all those decorative pillows that many seem so keen to fill their sofas up with.)

Quote:

Originally Posted by ondoho (Post 6257487)
I recommend people to have this sort of civil courage.
It can be a polite request, and it should not be an issue (not during an informal get-together anyhow).

There’s always this tactic. I don’t know if I’d ever have come up with it myself. I think it wouldn’t be considered polite, though. :)

https://xkcd.com/1807/

jmgibson1981 06-09-2021 08:19 PM

Quote:

That info could come back to get you 20 years from now when you decide that you want to run for mayor.
This is the only reason I like these things. I don't bother to vote because it doesn't seem to matter who wins, same old stuff every time. However I certainly don't like the idea of a sex offender or whatever other horrible things a person has done not being found out due to privacy issues.

I like my privacy. I however do not like that the legal system is built (at least in the us) for people to get away with stuff. Happens all the time. One technicality on a warrant, full house of evidence "doesn't exist". That is a failed system. Not taking sides but in the case of that Steel dossier or whatever they don't even try to deny the things the former president was accused of. All they care about is how they got it. If they can prove that it was ill gotten it's irrelevant and canceled out as well as near everything that came from it.

teckk 06-10-2021 08:59 AM

https://www.usnews.com/news/business...-to-your-wi-fi

business_kid 06-10-2021 09:25 AM

I noticed a trend from my computer savvy offspring (all grown up now).

They have a feeling that yes, they're being watched, but if you want to do stuff, it's inevitable. It's a bit like you realise there's no curtains in your bathroom, so anyone looking can see you shower.But you want a shower, so you go ahead.

The alternative is too much of a struggle, and takes persistence. Looking up a dictionary is too much effort when you can google it. So they just put it out of their minds.

hazel 06-10-2021 09:38 AM

I remember asking a friend whether it didn't worry her at all that Apple always knows exactly where she is (she has an iPhone) and she couldn't understand what the problem was.

ondoho 06-11-2021 12:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by business_kid (Post 6257957)
Looking up a dictionary is too much effort when you can google it. So they just put it out of their minds.

Too extreme examples. Looking up things can be done comfortably even on a mobile device without using FAAMG at all.
The Problem is that FAAMG (most notably Google I'd say) do everything in their power to create the impression they are the internet.
My coworkers don't remember the difference between an URL bar and a search bar anymore.

So, not very savvy to use Google to end up at a wikipedia article.

hazel 06-30-2021 12:18 PM

Will you believe it? They've now issued a "child-friendly" version of Alexa. It's disguised as a cuddly panda and costs £60. So now there will be an Amazon spy even in the nursery. What a paedophile's delight!

ondoho 07-01-2021 01:29 AM

Oh wow, that just calls for evil, sarcastic memes.
What were they thinking? No wait, I know the answer to this - that it will make them even more money, both through direct sales and through the ability to gather more data, earlier in a life, getting a more complete profile, increasing the chances of succesful influencing, creating even "better" customers...

I hate this society. It's one of its largest and usually overlooked sins, that modern marketing strategies are applied to our youngest with gusto, and no law to hold them back.

We could be so much further along with e.g. gender equality if it wasn't for the toy and entertainment industry. Because, why bother with unisex toys when you can double your profit by making everything for either boys or girls.

Well, I'm rambling now, but in my POV that's a very clear line going from "kid Alexa" to exploiting our youngest psyches.

sundialsvcs 07-02-2021 09:34 AM

An Internet tap was found in a polling place – it was a "smart thermostat." It had both Bluetooth and an Internet connection. The machines had Bluetooth also. Some of them had wireless modems.

Look very closely at that little black bubble on the dashboard of your car ... the one that's supposed to be used to turn the headlights on automatically. Do you see the lens that is pointed directly at your face? Be careful what you say to yourself in the "privacy" of your car, because your car is listening, and it has an internet connection. A GPS, too. It's constantly transmitting the car's exact location to – someone, somewhere.

You can talk to your refrigerator now. Isn't that cute? But that means that your fridge is listening.

Pick up your smart phone and say out loud that you're going to kill yourself. It might speak up and direct you to a suicide-prevention hotline. Even if it is supposedly "turned off."

You notice that your phone draws boxes around everything that looks like a face. During the night, when your phone is connected to a charger and WiFi, your phone is sending those faces ... somewhere. There's a reason why social websites want you to "tag" pictures. There has been a demonstration where a camera is pointed at the crowd in Times Square. The image is filled with little bubbles next to each person's face: click on any of them to read all about that person.

It simply does not occur to people that this sort of thing might be done.

hazel 07-02-2021 09:50 AM

Frightening! Last year a sex toy was put on sale that called home when it was used. What were they thinking of!! Incidentally, here's a thought-provoking article on the problems of girls called Alexa.

cynwulf 07-02-2021 12:25 PM

If it can be done, someone will do it - if it can't you can bet someone is working on it:

https://www.gov.uk/government/public...a-new-paradigm

ondoho 07-02-2021 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hazel (Post 6263252)
Frightening! Last year a sex toy was put on sale that called home when it was used.

Oh yeah, I heard about that.
But since they were not Amazon, the company had to give in and redact the toys iirc.

Quote:

Incidentally, here's a thought-provoking article on the problems of girls called Alexa.
Funny, I never gave this enough thought.
And I guess very few people will be naming their child Alexa in the foreseeable future.


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