Yet, the biggest concern for the US government and its allies is to oust Assad, even if he's fighting the real threat, which is ISIS. That's pretty nonsensical and absurd. Or maybe not, if one realizes that ISIS is just a tool, an army of mercenaries and fanatics that are being used to impose certain agenda in the region.

One thing I learned about this thread is how many conservative figures are actually anti-war.

....And things get more complicated now, also worse for Turkey

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ymKnnMJjtFA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fGd6_cyhkSA


Yea I realize this is a lot from Russian sources, but only also to highlight IMO that Turkey is a liability for the EU and NATO, and again I also question Turkey's allegiance and possible support of IS discretely.

--edit

Lets not also forget that also Turkey was going after Kurdish forces which WERE fighting IS, instead of going IS as well, so Turkey was using this opportunity and took it as a green light to do what IT wants.

It's sad to here lands names used as militants\governments(no difference between them) makes it tough to travel.

Tradition$ and borders should die not people!

Is facing the real facts so hard??

https://www.lewrockwell.com/2015/11/...cts-terrorism/

Well LQ members, I have just had both of my knees jerked; tiny goose bumps surface on my arms; and a trace of moisture in my eyes!! The last line is: " Hey, they wont have to fight that war. Thats what theyve got YOUR kids for. " The article is at: https://www.lewrockwell.com/2015/11/...erry/isis-oil/

"Syria conflict: Russia accuses Erdogan of trading oil with IS"

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-34982951

The first step to knowledge is to know that we are ignorant. -Richard Cecil

I lost relatives in WWII, I lost relatives in the Korean " police action ", I lost many friends in the Vietnam fiasco; are our political lunatics demanding WWW III?? https://www.lewrockwell.com/2015/12/...tnam-war-show/

Possibly they are demanding it. After all they need a war to feed the military machine, and to make more money off the backs of dead suckers *cough* I mean heroes 'fighting for their country' or 'for freedom'.

This time obviously the stakes are very high. Now the Russian bear is constantly being poked, and she's waking up. Say what you want about the former Soviet country, but I doubt anyone would be dumb enough (well maybe for Turkey), to fully wake up the Bear.

Hell just look at history, others always labeled her as 'weak', 'backward', or 'a shell of itself'. I just look back at the most recent time in history, when Germany had a go at Russia. Sure at first it was a surprise for Russia, and a lot of people died, and continued to do so, BUT that just pushed Russia to churn out an amazing output of tanks and troops, and near the end obviously would have overrun all of Germany, sure again a LOT of casualties on the Soviet side, but that is NOT an issue for the Russians obviously. Its not about how many of their soldiers are killed at that point, they will overrun you no matter WHAT.

Now, it is obviously different, since Russia clearly is still nuclear capable and at this point they may just say 'fsck it, we're just gonna push the button and settle it that way.'

The big danger here, is again the rest of the world (mostly the West), in writing Russia off again, and I am repeating myself here but Turkey is dragging the rest of NATO down a VERY dangerous path. Turkey also thinks that because it is in NATO, it's back is covered by the rest of NATO and even the US, except that geographically also Russia is close by, and does the rest of NATO really WANT to race with Russia on who will reach Turkey first?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nMA4B2ZnQ2o
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nk7pu7j_l6Q

The Russians were bombing the ethnic Turkmen rebels (made Syrian by post-war Allied mapmakers), who are fighting against Assad AND fighting IS.

The place is a huge hairball of competing interests that resists translation into a suitable soundbite for the American news consumer.
The "goodies/baddies" metaphor doesn't really cut it.

Ethnic Turkmen aside, you are right though this is all a complete mess. The problem is that the western media is still trying the good/bad argument, black-white, no grey area at all. At least one from the west sees it how it truly is, and that is Iran has a major role here and can actually HELP, but nah, Iran bad, blah blah blah according to Faux and co.

Again going back to Turkey v. Russia now. I wouldn't be surprised Russia wouldn't be increasing support now for the PKK. Worst case scenario now is there is an outright conflict between Russia and Turkey, or Russia could just say 'Ok, this part of northern Iraq, to part of Turkey and Iran is now officially Kurdish and we recognize it as a nation now.' Far fetched? Perhaps, but if the west has already done such arbitrarily moves as carving up the middle east during their era of empire, why not the Russians?

Its interesting how now the west also like to point fingers at Russia, stating 'oh , they are trying to bring back the Russian Empire', and I say, so what? What has the west been doing for so long anyways? This is the pot calling the kettle black. There is not much of an argument to make. Human rights? Again, who is anyone to point fingers at Russia or Syria, after all things the west has done too?

Since there is a LOT of parties involved now, this has become a really BIG hairball.

My neighbor thinks that the Russians will arm the Kurds to the teeth and let them cut up Turkey to their hearts content; while NATO hems and haws and does nothing!!

Rightfully so, and I don't see why they shouldnt only to counter Turkey and IMO the rest of NATO needs to be reviewing Turkey's membership.