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Old 11-16-2015, 02:46 PM   #16
dugan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by odiseo77 View Post
Not sure if you were referring to me, but...
No, of course not. I was referring to the people who wrote the article linked in the top post.
 
Old 11-16-2015, 03:04 PM   #17
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Thanks for clearing it up, dugan.
 
Old 11-17-2015, 01:19 PM   #18
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I feel this is relevant to the discussion:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d5L4BYkuE_M
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UTyT79ls75c

Last edited by Jeebizz; 11-17-2015 at 01:37 PM.
 
Old 11-17-2015, 02:17 PM   #19
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Bzzztt... That is all much too informative.

"If it's not on Fox News, it simply doesn't exist."

After all: "We Are USA!" Therefore... nothing else matters! Don't bother us with any complex ... let alone ancient ... issue that cannot be "solved" with a carrier battle group (or thirteen or fourteen of the same) and a cruise missile or a drone flown by remote-control from Ft. Lauderdale, Florida.

Ahem.

- - -

Well, of course, the foregoing is "the Fox News version™ of 'what all of America thinks.'"

Fortunately for all of us ... "Fox News (sic) is wrong."
 
Old 11-17-2015, 02:24 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sundialsvcs View Post
Bzzztt... That is all much too informative.

"If it's not on Fox News, it simply doesn't exist."

After all: "We Are USA!" Therefore... nothing else matters! Don't bother us with any complex ... let alone ancient ... issue that cannot be "solved" with a carrier battle group (or thirteen or fourteen of the same) and a cruise missile or a drone flown by remote-control from Ft. Lauderdale, Florida.

Ahem.

- - -

Well, of course, the foregoing is "the Fox News version™ of 'what all of America thinks.'"

Fortunately for all of us ... "Fox News (sic) is wrong."
Pretty much. Sarcasm aside though I do hope you did watch the links in full. The fact that the US has such a buddy-buddy relationship with the Saudis who are responsible for financing 'IS' and other groups, yet the lesser of evils such as Assad, and co with their own shady history at least somewhat held things in order. The other video also raises a good point, why WASN'T the Saudi monarch not at the G20 summit in Turkey, and no word from him about the attacks either.. Sounds like a conspiracy yes, but why not a peep?
 
Old 11-17-2015, 03:52 PM   #21
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"Why not a peep?" Because, obviously, the US 'News' organization is, in fact, a state propaganda organization, "American Style.™"

And, actually(!), millions of Americans(!!) are perfectly aware of this.

On the one hand, we are dealing with "inter-tribal rivalries," among tribes that used to be utterly-isolated by the desert ...

... intersecting with ...

... Lithium ...

... Opium ... and

... O-I-L.



Suddenly, the whole issue stopped being easy to understand and to deal with. There is no "right answer" to be found here, no one's hand is non-bloody, and "carrier battle groups and cruise missiles" are not particularly relevant.
 
Old 11-17-2015, 08:52 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sundialsvcs View Post
"Why not a peep?" Because, obviously, the US 'News' organization is, in fact, a state propaganda organization, "American Style."

And, actually(!), millions of Americans(!!) are perfectly aware of this.

On the one hand, we are dealing with "inter-tribal rivalries," among tribes that used to be utterly-isolated by the desert ...

... intersecting with ...

... Lithium ...

... Opium ... and

... O-I-L.



Suddenly, the whole issue stopped being easy to understand and to deal with. There is no "right answer" to be found here, no one's hand is non-bloody, and "carrier battle groups and cruise missiles" are not particularly relevant.
Well by peep,i meant the Saudi monarch has been mum on the issue, hence he made no statement about the attacks which could indicate the Saudis are backing IS and it looks like the Russians are the only ones with enough balls to call out the Saudis unlike the US

Last edited by Jeebizz; 11-18-2015 at 12:32 AM.
 
Old 11-18-2015, 04:34 AM   #23
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I'm sorry but no! Neither the US, UK, French or any other government is responsible for these cowardly murders. The murders were carried out by worthless, criminal scum hiding behind "Islam" to behave like the worthless excrement they were.
I am no fan of our western governments, by the way, but only somebody with an IQ in single figures would think that killing innocent people is in any way going to change foreign policy to the benefit of the middle east.
 
Old 11-18-2015, 10:08 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 273 View Post
I'm sorry but no! Neither the US, UK, French or any other government is responsible for these cowardly murders. The murders were carried out by worthless, criminal scum hiding behind "Islam" to behave like the worthless excrement they were.
I am no fan of our western governments, by the way, but only somebody with an IQ in single figures would think that killing innocent people is in any way going to change foreign policy to the benefit of the middle east.
Thats true, but some of our so-called 'allies', again I am pointing the finger at the Saudis don't really seem to take much position on IS. I am outright accusing them of most likely funding these groups.
 
Old 11-18-2015, 10:18 AM   #25
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By the way, my post was not to disagree with the original post that this was a false-flag operation, though as it happens I do disagree with that, but to disagree that in some way it is the fault of our corrupt politicians that innocent people in Paris died. I personally view Bush and Blair as no better than war criminals who ought to be jailed (I don't know enough regarding French foreign policy to comment on their politician) but that in now way means that people who had no part in deciding which troops were sent to where to do what should be shot.
These so-called Muslim criminals had a choice of who to kill, or to not kill at all, and they chose to kill the innocent. That was their choice and they were responsible and nobody else.
These killing were not political or religious they were cowardly acts from deranged criminal scum taking out their frustration on society because they were too moronic to have what they truly wanted.
These scum should not be referred to as terrorists and certainly should not have any labels regarding religion, country of origin or politics applied to them.
My apologies I just find this whole thing, with reactions of those like Texas, horrific, illogical and pathetic.
 
Old 11-18-2015, 05:37 PM   #26
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I think that the Pope was on to something when he called it, "a piecemeal World War III."

There are a lot of people in a once-proud and noble land who have seen one totalitarian regime be replaced by another totalitarian regime that was instituted by the United States(!) and by other powers. They have figured out various ways to fight back, and I am quite sure they will find more.

Unfortunately, a lot of western nations believe that "war can be waged without domestic consequences," even for fifteen years or more, and that's just not true. America keeps what it is doing entirely out of its own news (sic) media, but there are plenty of people around the world who hate the country (and its various allies) with good reason.

The instability in the region goes all the way back to the end of World War One, when what was then called the Ottoman Empire unfortunately allied itself with Germany. Its territory was carved up as spoils of wars by the British to create ... Iran, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Israel, Palestine, and so on. None of these divisions naturally occur. They were placed as a way of dividing up the natural resources that were then known to exist: oil, opium, lithium, and so on. (No one knew, at that time, how much oil was under there, however.)

For this entire time, however, the bottom line is that the region is always under attack by someone from far-away. Or, someone from far-away is instigating tribal and inter-nicene conflict to further its own ends. No one seems the slightest bit interested in being a peacemaker. No one is treating anyone who lives over there as ... people. No one's working to help these people better themselves, nor to escape the scourge of endless war. Instead, war is constantly being heaped upon them. No wonder they're angry. You would be, too.

There was a time when Persia was one of the most powerful, wealthy, prosperous, and proud regions on Earth, in spite of having so much desert.

Last edited by sundialsvcs; 11-18-2015 at 05:40 PM.
 
Old 11-18-2015, 05:48 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sundialsvcs View Post
For this entire time, however, the bottom line is that the region is always under attack by someone from far-away. Or, someone from far-away is instigating tribal and inter-nicene conflict to further its own ends. No one seems the slightest bit interested in being a peacemaker. No one is treating anyone who lives over there as ... people. No one's working to help these people better themselves, nor to escape the scourge of endless war. Instead, war is constantly being heaped upon them. No wonder they're angry. You would be, too.
And the excreta which carried out the attacks in Paris know this and their controllers use it to shield their cowardly revenge against a world they are too pathetically useless to take part in. Nobody in an even vaguely right mind would think that killing innocent people in Paris helps anybody.
So, yes, I agree that the US, UK and others have very bad foreign policies but I absolutely disagree that they had anything to do with these attacks apart from, perhaps, being a very thinly-veiled excuse for some sub-human scum to have some under-achieving morons carry out their sick fantasies.
Please, please, please can we stop linking this criminal bunch of inadequates with anything even vaguely politically legitimate.
The US and the UK went to war in Iraq under false pretences and there are civil wars and unrest in the middle east and people are dying because of it. But to link their fate with this hideous bunch of lunatics is offensive to the memory of those dead and the human race as a whole.
 
Old 11-18-2015, 09:35 PM   #28
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A relevant article about this subject:

http://www.ronpaulinstitute.org/arch...bombing-syria/
 
Old 11-19-2015, 07:51 AM   #29
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The fifteen-plus year old "war in Iraq" is the thing that created opportunity for psychopaths who are nevertheless practicing what the French president called "an act of war." They are doing so without armies. In fact, they are slipping through the historical defenses and defense-appuratus, e.g. "armies."

We must be very careful in terming these people "sick individuals" merely because they are "individuals." It may well be that we are seeing new chapters in global warfare, as the Pope sagely observes. You don't need an "army." And we should not pre-suppose that, because they are or appear to be individuals, larger forces are not behind them.

The "big, powerful, we-are-invincible" armies that have been waging this nation-crafting form of warfare ... just as their great-great grandfathers did in the 1910's ... are finding themselves and their nations to be vulnerable, indeed. Vulnerable to a form of retribution that did not involve tanks racing across the open deserts far-away while the countrymen were secure at home watching the appointed news-reels. We live in very, very different times now.

Vladimir Putin: "Do you realize now what you have done?"

American Response: "U - S - A !! U - S - A !!" (accompanied by the theme of Rocky)

Babes in the woods of international politics. As for me, I want real international leadership in m-y country. Why should my own country be a country whose actions on the public stage are things that I am ashamed of and find reprehensible?!

Last edited by sundialsvcs; 11-19-2015 at 07:56 AM.
 
Old 11-19-2015, 10:45 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sundialsvcs View Post
The fifteen-plus year old "war in Iraq" is the thing that created opportunity for psychopaths who are nevertheless practicing what the French president called "an act of war." They are doing so without armies. In fact, they are slipping through the historical defenses and defense-appuratus, e.g. "armies."

We must be very careful in terming these people "sick individuals" merely because they are "individuals." It may well be that we are seeing new chapters in global warfare, as the Pope sagely observes. You don't need an "army." And we should not pre-suppose that, because they are or appear to be individuals, larger forces are not behind them.

The "big, powerful, we-are-invincible" armies that have been waging this nation-crafting form of warfare ... just as their great-great grandfathers did in the 1910's ... are finding themselves and their nations to be vulnerable, indeed. Vulnerable to a form of retribution that did not involve tanks racing across the open deserts far-away while the countrymen were secure at home watching the appointed news-reels. We live in very, very different times now.

Vladimir Putin: "Do you realize now what you have done?"

American Response: "U - S - A !! U - S - A !!" (accompanied by the theme of Rocky)

Babes in the woods of international politics. As for me, I want real international leadership in m-y country. Why should my own country be a country whose actions on the public stage are things that I am ashamed of and find reprehensible?!
I am going to take this a bit further -- WARNING Politically incorrect post incoming WARNING!
Click image for larger version

Name:	miss me yet.jpg
Views:	20
Size:	243.2 KB
ID:	20089

Now I didn't post that just to be a smart ass, the point I am trying to make is this: Considering the situation and state that whole part of the world is in right now, as bad and as he was, so reviled and vilified - is Iraq REALLY better off now?

Nevermind also that even Syria and North Africa is in complete chaos now, how much worse will and can get when Assad is deposed? As bad as he is, I don't think you want to imagine just how worse it can get. Just saying. Feel free to flame me away all you want, but I feel this was an important point to make.

Last edited by Jeebizz; 11-19-2015 at 10:47 AM.
 
  


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