The Faith & Religion mega Thread

Originally Posted by khodeir insulting people isn't a good way to talk to them

Again, that wasn't an insult, but that is how you are interpreting it.

For you, any kind of criticism is insulting. As far as I'm concerned, any religion, is NOT free from criticism, and should NOT have any kind of special status, and I am sorry to say it, even Islam too.

I was raised Christian, but I have no qualms about the criticism levied against it, because dare I say it, some of it, the majority of it, is deserved. Period.

Every religion has it's extremist end and it's moderate end. We see have seen an extremist Christian killing a doctor who performs abortions ... killing him in a church! We see extremist Muslims becoming human bombs (and other things). Hindu extremists have begun to arise again. There are, apparently, even extremist Buddhists - though how that manifests itself I have no idea.

Do you know who needs to fix the extremists within a religion? That's right, everybody else within that religion. I am well aware that within every religion there is a mainstream "moderate" faction, but by standing by and allowing these terrible things to happen in their name they are almost as bad.

All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. ~ Edmund Burke Irish orator, philosopher, & politician (1729 - 1797)

Hi XavierP

All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. ~ Edmund Burke Irish orator, philosopher, & politician (1729 - 1797)

Completely agree with this...

Yet, some factions or setcs within Religions are willing to say that if some good men do something about religious extremism, they are Religiously Intolerant, and do not accept other Civilizations...

What would you do if you witnessed some poor hopeless creature being cruelly stoned to death in a park in your neighborhood...?

Wouldn't you also be "intolerant" ?

La séance de lapidation est publique. Le code pénal de la République Islamique, articles 102 et 104, définit les conditions de la lapidation : « Les pierres utilisées pour infliger la mort par lapidation ne devront pas être grosses au point que le condamné meure après en avoir reçu une ou deux. Elles ne devront pas non plus être si petites qu'on ne puisse leur donner le nom de pierre. La taille moyenne est choisie généralement afin de faire expier la faute par la souffrance ». Les lapideurs doivent rester à distance d’une quinzaine de mètres de leur cible et choisir avec soin leurs pierres : Les pierres coupantes sont choisies pour leurs arrêtes effilées qui provoquent les saignements les plus spectaculaires. Une pierre coupante doit de préférence être lancée au visage du condamné. Les pierres rondes nécessitent moins de précision car elles sont efficaces partout. Elles sont idéales pour briser les os et provoquer les hémorragies internes fatales.

The meeting is public stoning. The Criminal Code of the Islamic Republic, Articles 102 and 104, defines the conditions of stoning: "The stones used to inflict death by stoning should not only be large enough to kill the person in receipt of one or two. They should not be so small that they could not be defined as stones. The average size is generally chosen in order to expiate guilt by suffering. The lapideurs should stay away from a dozen meters from their target and carefully choose their stones: Stones are chosen for their cutting edges frayed causing bleeding the most spectacular. A stone cutting should preferably be launched in the face of the condemned. The round stones require less precision because they are effective everywhere. They are ideal to break bones and cause fatal internal bleeding.

I can tell you for sure that I would...

Do you know who needs to fix the extremists within a religion? That's right, everybody else within that religion.

OK, but how? You are assuming that religions are homogeneous. As I guess you are most familiar with christianity, I'll ask you to consider the numerous factions it has split into over the course of history: catholic, orthodox, protestant, with the latter having a gazillion subdivisions itself. So how is a catholic going to "fix", say, a protestant who is convinced that it is really the catholic who is in need of some fixing? Yes, of course, a catholic could try to fix another catholic but that is exactly how all those factions originated.

Indeed. I completely agree. But if not the members, who else? The recent publicity against Catholic Priests/Bishops/Archbishops/Cardinals/Pope and all in between should have stirred the lay members of the church to outrage and there should have been massive sweeping changes top to bottom to ensure that this never ever happens again. What happened? Not a lot really. So if we can say that the Catholic church have little interest in being the solution, surely the next best thing is pressure from the other branches of Christianity?

In this, as in anything, it's not enough to say "we are not one group". To non-Christians, who care little for the divisions, it's merely a bunch of Christians abusing children.

When a terrorist bomb goes off, how often does the news story examine which branch of Islam was responsible? Even if the name the branch, it's pretty much ignored in the rest of the story and is reported as "Muslim terrorist does something". In all religions, to those who are not part of it, the divisions are meaningless.

Originally Posted by XavierP There are, apparently, even extremist Buddhists - though how that manifests itself I have no idea.

Ever hear of Soka Gakkai? Some would consider them extremist.

surely the next best thing is pressure from the other branches of Christianity?

What did you have in mind? Disclaimers? Those come out regularly from moderates/sane people of every religion. Europe used to have wars between the Catholics and Protestants as "pressure", but that didn't work out too well either. I'm not sure what you're looking for. Unfortunately, people of every stripe don't want to listen. We've seen plenty of that in this thread.

For the more scientifically inclined, PET scans purportedly show that areas of the brain associated with logical thinking are NOT activated when discussing religion or politics... sorry I can't find the reference. So perhaps it is meaningless to try to logically reason with individuals over these matters.

Firm Believer, denomination-nonspecific Christian.

You guys gotta understand that many Christians (I'd even say a majority) aren't the type that say "Join or Burn in Hell," or go around marketing a denomination.

Many people like me simply believe in the Bible and that Jesus Christ is my savior. I really don't condemn someone who doesn't believe the way I do or look down upon them. In fact, I don't care.

"But it does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods or no God. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg."
-- Thomas Jefferson

Anyway, I respect people for what they believe. My only request from anyone is to respect what I believe too. Oh how many times have I went and said I was a Christian and been immediately attacked, relentlessly, for it. Religion is something where the right to disagree must be exercised more.

Hey the Puritans fled Europe and their persecution only to do the same thing in America. And now America has to put up with their stupid culture.

imho, god may have started the "big-bang" the first portion of the first pico-second that science hasn't figured out yet, then close to 14 billion years later man evolved, invented religion, and we know the rest of the story. And there is no provable evidence god has done anything since.

"Bend the twig and so grows the tree!" A bible and probably koran verse since their both copied from similar sources. A person who has grown-up in an over-religious family will probably never have a chance in believing anything other than the religion he/she was raised in. The ability to deny all the over-abundance of geologic and fossil evidence of evolution has to prove over-whelming evidence of "bent-twig" or too many leaded paint-chips consumed as a child.

Keep in mind this is just a joke to lighten the tense mood in here.

I was walking across a bridge one day, and I saw a man standing
on the edge, about to jump off. So I ran over and said "Stop!
don't do it!"
"Why shouldn't I?" he said.
I said, "Well, there's so much to live for!"
He said, "Like what?"
I said, "Well...are you religious or atheist?"
He said, "Religious."
I said, "Me too! Are you christian or buddhist?"
He said,"Christian."
I said, "Me too! Are you catholic or protestant?"
He said, "Protestant."
I said, "Me too! Are you episcopalian or baptist?"
He said, "Baptist!"
I said,"Wow! Me too! Are you baptist church of god or
baptist church of the lord?"
He said, "Baptist church of god!"
I said, "Me too! Are you original baptist church of god,
or are you reformed baptist church of god?"
He said,"Reformed Baptist church of god!"
I said, "Me too! Are you reformed baptist church of god,
reformation of 1879, or reformed baptist church of god,
reformation of 1915?"
He said, "Reformed baptist church of god, reformation of 1915!"
I said, "Die, heretic scum", and pushed him off.

Originally Posted by leopard Anyway, I respect people for what they believe. My only request from anyone is to respect what I believe too. Oh how many times have I went and said I was a Christian and been immediately attacked, relentlessly, for it. Religion is something where the right to disagree must be exercised more.

It is quite rediculous. I'm very music minded. It was quite funny how when a band like Jars of Clay became popular in the mainstream that some people enjoyed their music UNTIL they found out it was a christian band.

I am an atheist, but yet I still find things enjoyable about certain christian bands.

Originally Posted by leopard Firm Believer, denomination-nonspecific Christian. You guys gotta understand that many Christians (I'd even say a majority) aren't the type that say "Join or Burn in Hell," or go around marketing a denomination. Many people like me simply believe in the Bible and that Jesus Christ is my savior. I really don't condemn someone who doesn't believe the way I do or look down upon them. In fact, I don't care. "But it does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods or no God. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg." -- Thomas Jefferson Anyway, I respect people for what they believe. My only request from anyone is to respect what I believe too. Oh how many times have I went and said I was a Christian and been immediately attacked, relentlessly, for it. Religion is something where the right to disagree must be exercised more.

Originally Posted by yonnieboy Hey the Puritans fled Europe and their persecution only to do the same thing in America. And now America has to put up with their stupid culture. imho, god may have started the "big-bang" the first portion of the first pico-second that science hasn't figured out yet, then close to 14 billion years later man evolved, invented religion, and we know the rest of the story. And there is no provable evidence god has done anything since. "Bend the twig and so grows the tree!" A bible and probably koran verse since their both copied from similar sources. A person who has grown-up in an over-religious family will probably never have a chance in believing anything other than the religion he/she was raised in. The ability to deny all the over-abundance of geologic and fossil evidence of evolution has to prove over-whelming evidence of "bent-twig" or too many leaded paint-chips consumed as a child.

Case in point.

Originally Posted by Alexvader Actually I disagree with you... Buddhism has never been used to agress, mistreat, humiliate or slaughter anybody... Buddhism is Peace, Balance and Harmony... ... but then again... Buddhism is not a Religion... is a Philosophy, a Way of Life... So Ur right about the religions after all...

Actually most consider it a religion and philosophy. It certainly is a way of life but when you break it down and understand it more, it's definitely a religion as well.

Although you are correct that it has never directly been used to agress, mistreat, humiliate or slaughter people, violence does occur within it usually in the form of defense, but usually left as a last resort. There have been reports of violent Buddhist monks but some of the reports are from sources known to exaggerate and or bend the truth.

But nevertheless, it's still a type of religion.

Hi

violence does occur within it usually in the form of defense, but usually left as a last resort. There have been reports of violent Buddhist monks but some of the reports are from sources known to exaggerate and or bend the truth.

Generally speaking Buddhists ( like me ) are utterly intolerant to violence, abuse of the weak, this sorts of stuff...

So, ( this may seem paradoxical ) to defend a weaker one from being abused or oppressed, a very Wise buddhist would resort to the use of words to stop the wrong deed... Such people's intelligence, spiritual harmony and pureness might demote even the most cruel opressor.

Others, like me who does not have this degree of spiritual evolution, might resort to extreme violence against the oppressor, or the abuser, so as to stop the wrong deed on spot, and make sure it does not ever happen again caused by the same opressor/abuser.

A superior human being, in the way of Buddha does not give in to his/her emotions, and acts in accordance with the preservation of peace, and harmony...

Others, less evolved, can be taken by extreme hate against those who opress and abuse weak ppl...

I hate to necro-bump this thread, but I think I've finally come to a conclusion as to what my "beliefs" are: everything is meaningless. Seriously.

Think about it: what is all of existence but a massively complex program? What is life other than a massive chemical reaction? Think about this seriously and from a wider perspective before objecting.

In the end, nothing we do really means anything...it's all part of some pointless game of "survival" wherein some carbon-based blobs of matter self-equalize themselves just so they can continue to *exist* in their current state, with some changes here and there to make their self-equalization process more efficient. Don't argue back with "what about love and genuine caring?" or other such things, either, because those are all just a part of that self-equalization game, nothing more.

entz was right...I'm just a depressed, lonely, miserable idiot who only wants to believe in things "beyond the physical" because it makes me "feel good".

Our existence is meaningless.
All events are effectively a result of circumstance (choice does not exist/is an illusion).
All concepts of an "afterlife" or "reincarnation" are pointless superstition (just more pointless fodder for the imagination...did I mention that imagination is just as meaningless? ...all a part of the pointless evolutionary game we play here on this planet...)

Let the games begin (again).