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Ah yes - "Background Noise", in other words, any disagreement with dogma. That's less of an issue at the beginning when numbers are one or few, but once those numbers climb, and an "Us vs Them" perception rears its ugly head along with "There oughta be a Law", that's when "One True Faith" begins to transition into Heresy, Fatwah, Crusades, Inquisition, "burn the witches" and "kill the infidels" and turn a blind eye to The Holocaust.... all still going on today when Humanity should have outgrown that infantile sibling rivalry ages ago.
@business_kid, @enorbet: No, I don't want to get into any private discussion, because I don't consider that I have any skin in any game. I'm quite fascinated by the interaction of religion and purely-human politics ... and by the way that this makes "celestial religion" become "oh-so human."
Unfortunately, as @enorbet accurately observes in his latest post, religion oh-so-quickly becomes a "justification" for the shedding of much human blood, and/or for the germination of the deepest and most-intractable human "tribal" controversies. Well – "whether it's really God's invention or the Devil's" – I suppose that it is what it is. "And may God have mercy on our souls."
I'm actually in somewhat of a difficult position as I'm painfully aware of the concept that "Everybody wants to go to Heaven but nobody wants to die". That translates down here to "Struggle makes us stronger so why does everyone seek comfort and convenience instead?" and "Cooperation and collaboration can tend to stultify while energy is created in conflict" and I don't wish for Humanity to jump from impetuous child right to doddering Old Man, but I'm not at all convinced that Humanity can survive adolescence.
It does occasionally bother me I won't be around to see Act IV... "struts and frets his hour upon the stage" indeed.
This point was rammed home to me on a recent group-camping trip. One of my friends finished packing his stuff, waiting for the ride to come to pick us up, and fell dead. He was rushed to the hospital as soon as possible but DOA.
Therefore, just remember to "live each day as though it will be your la
"Everybody wants to go to Heaven but nobody wants to die".
I am often amused by that. It displays a lack of faith, don't you think? I don't think I'm going to heaven, btw, but nevertheless it does display a lack of real faith, don't you think? There's the question of leaving grieving relatives behind, but everyone seems to think they're immortal.
@sundialsvcs: I extend my sympathies also. But something like that makes you aware of your own mortality. It often drives people to fall back on what they are holding onto. If their faith isn't based on substance …
@enorbet: That's Macbeth, isn't it? I think Lady Macbeth had committed suicide by then? I was force-fed Macbeth a long time ago. That speech explained life in terms of bad actors in a bad play. One of our own wrote this:
Quote:
Originally Posted by George Bernard Shaw
A dramatic critic is someone who leaves no turn unstoned
Well, the sympathies would be extended to someone else other than me, but thank you just the same. It was the first time I saw CPR actually being performed on a human being. (One of the participants was a medical doctor, and another was a triage nurse.) The doctor could hazard a guess as to what might have happened, but there was nothing to be done. Sometimes, "it's just a bolt out of the blue." Your time is up. Right now. Even in hospital settings sometimes "they respond in all the right ways" and it very simply doesn't work.
Last edited by sundialsvcs; 07-08-2021 at 10:36 AM.
To go OT for a minute, Sudden Adult Death Syndrome (SADS) can get physically fit young folks. It strikes like a massive heart attack, and without a defibrillator, there's no way back. My wife's 1st husband died that way - at 28.
Yes, the doctor speculated that it was probably "fibrillation," because my friend had none of the expected "heart-attack complaints." It struck entirely without warning. He literally set his backpack down, turned to face us, and died. The root cause could have been anything. I doubt they did an autopsy before he was cremated. There is some talk now of returning a portion of his ashes to this place which he loved.
"Every day is a gift, folks. And you never know when that gift might be taken away."
Last edited by sundialsvcs; 07-08-2021 at 12:17 PM.
I am often amused by that. It displays a lack of faith, don't you think? I don't think I'm going to heaven, btw, but nevertheless it does display a lack of real faith, don't you think? There's the question of leaving grieving relatives behind, but everyone seems to think they're immortal.
In all honesty I have no idea about the specific but I get the gist of the generality. I have no concept of what Heaven even could be. I mean what would be a good and pleasing thing for eternity? and that's just from the perspective of an ephemeral human being. I can't possibly imagine what is important to some one or some thing that lives a thousand years let alone eternity. I'm only rarely ever bored and most often have far more I want to do than I have time for so as a human I can imagine and desire living for thousands of years but only if my health and vitality kept up. Since that is currently impossible I foresee a time when I must welcome death.... 110 has a nice ring to it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by business_kid
@enorbet: That's Macbeth, isn't it? I think Lady Macbeth had committed suicide by then? I was force-fed Macbeth a long time ago. That speech explained life in terms of bad actors in a bad play.
Yes that's Macbeth and if you haven't witnessed either Patrick Stewart or Ian McKellen doing that soliloquy you really must. Here's Sir Ian McKellan's
I don't "read" that as "bad actors in a bad play" since Shakespeare was quite obviously aware of fame and legacy. He certainly wasn't a nihilist. I think it is not meant as an overall philosophy but rather an illustration of the depths of grief common with losing a loved one when all can seem for nought for a time.
In all honesty I have no idea about the specific but I get the gist of the generality. I have no concept of what Heaven even could be. I mean what would be a good and pleasing thing for eternity? and that's just from the perspective of an ephemeral human being. I can't possibly imagine what is important to some one or some thing that lives a thousand years let alone eternity. I'm only rarely ever bored and most often have far more I want to do than I have time for so as a human I can imagine and desire living for thousands of years but only if my health and vitality kept up. Since that is currently impossible I foresee a time when I must welcome death.... 110 has a nice ring to it.
I've no conception of heaven either, and no Scriptural guidance. I have a working hypothesis, and it will do until we have more information. I see heaven, the dwelling place of God, and "The heavens" as different places. In Hebrews 11:1, faith is defined in part as "the assured expectation of things hoped for …" By that definition, anyone who wishes to delay their "reward" isn't expecting much, if any, reward, is he?
That's especially true if they are not young and fit, but riddled with various illnesses. I wouldn't mind dying; it's dying by installments that I find tiresome - a sort of 'pay now, die later' scenario. I don't like paying now
I would not particularly mind dying now. After all, I have had my biblical three score years and ten. Anything more is a bonus. I enjoy my life but I would rather not live long enough to become demented or be put into a care home. I have seen enough of both, both as a Pets As Therapy volunteer and as a eucharistic minister. Thanks but no thanks!
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