The Faith & Religion mega Thread

The existence of God can't be proved or disproved. It's mankind's ideas of what God is that I don't believe in.

Yep, two completely different things.

Originally Posted by linus72 well for all those who subscribe to the evolution religion please remember evolution has never been proven... IF evolution could be scientifically proven it would be called the Law of Evolution wouldn't it? but its not its called the Theory of Evolution as for religious indoctrination easuter; I was not raised in the church, etc actually the religious indoctrination you speak of is when evolution is taught in our schools and something else; no scientist in the world can claim to know how Life began oh sure, they'll say some kind of bacteria suddenly appeared somewhere but seriously,they will all admit sooner or later that they do not really know. and it wasn't a lightning bolt hitting a mud puddle that started it. it is funny how people believe in aliens or evolution easier than they can believe in God when His presence and work is so visible

There is no point arguing with the likes of you about science when everything you say about the topic demonstrates you know nothing about it. Perhaps you should finish highschool?

I will however leave you with one of my favourite quotes:

Originally Posted by Book reviewer on Amazon.com Debating creationists on the topic of evolution is rather like trying to play chess with a pigeon — it knocks the pieces over, craps on the board, and flies back to its flock to claim victory.

Originally Posted by khodeir ok what is known to me , that Allah create man from sand thats it no bacteria, nothing like that

I'm no Muslim, but I have glanced through the Quran and didn't it 'state' that man was created from clay? Kinda different from sand.

Nevertheless that clip didn't do anything for me.

Even though I was raised as a Christian, luckily my parents never shoved religion down my throat. I guess that is why I am more on the fence, and never had much of a reason to completely renounce religion, however it was not until I got older and people from my school and streets that tried to indoctrinate me in their 'faith' which has begun to push me over the fence.

Originally Posted by easuter I will however leave you with one of my favourite quotes: Debating creationists on the topic of evolution is rather like trying to play chess with a pigeon — it knocks the pieces over, craps on the board, and flies back to its flock to claim victory.

haha. I wouldn't have put it in a nicely formed sentence like that, but yes, it boils down to this. IMO applies to any discussion with someone indoctrinated/brainwashed to <insert something here> (e.g. Apple fanbois)

Originally Posted by brianL The existence of God can't be proved or disproved. It's mankind's ideas of what God is that I don't believe in.

Actually you can. First, just because someone says that something exists doesn't mean that I now have to disprove it, because it is assumed to be true. Second, there is no reason for any deity to exist, not only that, but it is also impossible in scientific terms, and let's say that God does exist, then explain:
http://www.linuxquestions.org/questi...t/atheist1-10/

Logically, deities and gods do not exist.

Anyway, I'm outta this thread, because I don't care for such discussions any more.

Well you can't really argue with that.

and what do you believe easuter?

Perhaps I should finish highschool?

what does that infer?
can you have a serious discussion without insulting someone?
Only the cowardly insult others over the internet

Debating creationists on the topic of evolution is rather like trying to play chess with a pigeon — it knocks the pieces over, craps on the board, and flies back to its flock to claim victory.

and what does that drivel mean?

you can't prove evolution huh easuter?
why isn't the Theory of evolution the Law of evolution?
can evolution be "tested" in a laboratory?
exactly

@Linus72 - what you have done here is take up one of the Creationist arguments and forget to understand the question and the rebuttals. In science "Theory" does not mean "random thought". A Theory is something that is tested, rigorously, for truth and is reappraised as new evidence arises. Unfortunately, the same is not true for religious manuals. And let's not bring up the banana, eh (in case you were planning to).

Please read this wikipedia article and inwardly digest it.

And there is still no definite evidence that Jesus actually existed. Outside of the Gospels, which were not written at the time they report on, Jesus seems to have left a very very small historical footprint.

and what does that drivel mean?

It means that no amount of evidence, or "proof" as you put it, will be sufficient to convince you that evolution by natural selection is responsible for the diversity of life on earth. You, as a fundamentalist christian, will always find some excuse to dismiss the mountains of physical evidence that already exist or any further evidence that may be uncovered and that's why it's pointless arguing the subject with you. It's a complete waste of time.

why isn't the Theory of evolution the Law of evolution?

This is precisely the reason I asked if you had finished highschool. At least in my country, by the time you reach highschool, everyone taking a science-oriented curriculum knows what a scientific theory is and how the scientific method works (and if they don't they will soon enough). The fact that you don't means that you either didn't finish highschool, or maybe you never took any biology/chemistry/physics classes (is that even possible in your country?), or just sat through the classes letting everything the teachers said fall on deaf ears.

OK
I understand I was refering to the laymans use of theory
however; what evoltionists call fact still cannot be observed

no one in living history has ever seen evidence of the missing link
that being when and how creatures somehow change into another thru stages, spontaneously, etc
its never happened in recorded history where someone observed any creature
making the leap into something different.

I assume you will say the fossil record has proven this but it does not
it instead shows each creature according to its family, etc

is there a fossil wherein a creature was fossilized during its "transition"?

I mean seriously give me your best shot at why evolution is real?
whats the proof?
assume I know nothing of evolution or god or aliens, etc

The theory of evolution is more believable than any creation myth. But what has the theory of evolution got to do with the possible existence of god? The two aren't mutually exclusive.

Well if you are really interested, here goes...

OK I understand I was refering to the laymans use of theory however; what evoltionists call fact still cannot be observed

Typing "Observed instances of speciation" into Google gives a ton of results, notably this page:
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-speciation.html
Instead of making statements like "noone has ever seen this or observed that", why don't you actually research the subject to find out?

that being when and how creatures somehow change into another thru stages, spontaneously, etc

Evolution doesn't happen through "stages", or steps or spontaneously. Again, this shows you are arguing against something and you don't even know what it is.
Evolution by natural selection is a continuous process and it doesn't have any goals or objectives.

is there a fossil wherein a creature was fossilized during its "transition"?

Do you actually think that evolution means that sometimes some species just suddenly "morph" into something completely different?
ALL species are transitional. We are the "transitional" species between our ancestors and future generations, and our differences depend almost entirely on how much time goes by.

whats the proof?

The is no one "proof" (that is the realm of mathematics) but we do have loads of evidence. IMHO if the fossil record and shared physical traits between species isn't enough, then genetics is definitely the last nail in the coffin of creationism.
With genetics we can see the "tree" of life that traces our ancestry right back to single-celled organisms, pretty much as predicted by the theory of evolution.

assume I know nothing of evolution or god or aliens, etc

Aliens have nothing to do with this, and neither does god really. There are plenty of christians who do believe in god but also accept evolution. They simply take it that your god must have used that process to create all the species on earth.

Here are some useful links for you to check out:
http://www.talkorigins.org/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t3k0dDFxkhM

Search youtube for this string: "Foundational Falsehoods of Creationism". The entire video series in that playlist is very complete and informative on both the subject of evolution and religious fundamentalism.

Lastly, please look at an actual biology book for information about evolution, not hearsay and sermons from your pastor or friends. The stuff you posted here has already been posted more times than I can count but creationists just keep on using the same old tired arguments. BTW, most (if not all) of them have already been debunked and you can read the rebuttals on the TalkOrigins site.

As a christian you might be interested in reading a book written by a christian biologist:
http://www.amazon.com/Finding-Darwin...9205229&sr=8-2

Hope this post was helpful.

Originally Posted by linus72 no one in living history has ever seen evidence of the missing link that being when and how creatures somehow change into another thru stages, spontaneously, etc its never happened in recorded history where someone observed any creature making the leap into something different.

Clearly with this type of claim, which a lot of theists do in a sense, just prove you know absolutely nothing on how evolution works. Read more in regards to how evolution and educate yourself before making such asinine comments.

Clearly a fish isn't gonna jump out of the water and turn into a monkey spontaneously.

In terms of evolution, just look at the ear. The bones used to be located elsewhere on our heads - evolution did that!

In terms of Xtians blindly believing the creation myth found in Genesis - you are pretty much the only ones who do. Even the Jewish religion accept that the first bit is a creation myth.

And it is known - outside the more basic (or Fundamentalist) churches - that evolution is real. Why the hell are we attempting to prove it again? Get me proof of God - extraordinary claims require extraordinary proofs and you (as in religious people) made the first claim!

Originally Posted by XavierP Get me proof of God

OK. Which God would you like proof of?
"Hey, Odin! XavierP wants a word with you."
Watch out for a one-eyed man with a raven perched on each shoulder.