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View Poll Results: You are a...
firm believer 206 29.90%
Deist 21 3.05%
Theist 26 3.77%
Agnostic 135 19.59%
Atheist 301 43.69%
Voters: 689. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 08-25-2019, 12:24 PM   #8881
jens
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jsbjsb001 View Post
If I'm one of "those people" you're referring to; I'm not one of your "fellow atheists" since an "athe´st" is someone who's believes there is no "god".
Please stop doing this. I've stated this multiple times before; I agree a 100% that atheism means the believe that there is no god and NOT just the absence of believing in a god.

Last edited by jens; 08-25-2019 at 12:26 PM.
 
Old 08-25-2019, 12:32 PM   #8882
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jens View Post
Please stop doing this. I've stated this multiple times before; I agree a 100% that atheism means the believe that there is no god and NOT just the absence of believing in a god.
Dawkins would certainly disagree with you. People have often pointed out to him that believing there is no God is just as much an act of faith as believing that there is a God, since fallible human beings could hardly know one way or another. And he has always answered that he doesn't believe there is no God, he just doesn't believe that there is one.

Personally I don't believe him! Mere absence of belief would not produce the vehemence that he shows.
 
Old 08-25-2019, 12:41 PM   #8883
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jens View Post
Please stop doing this. I've stated this multiple times before; I agree a 100% that atheism means the believe that there is no god and NOT just the absence of believing in a god.
Do what? Point out that I'm not an "atheist" ? Well excuse me.

I never said you disagree, but others seem to have other ideas of what an "atheist" means - that's why I pointed it out...
 
Old 08-25-2019, 12:48 PM   #8884
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jsbjsb001 View Post
{...}But that doesn't mean it's wise to believe you understand something that is beyond any and all human comprehension - so it's pretty rich to think someone [a human] could honestly write a book about something they couldn't possibly understand to begin with. There's a term for that: "delusional".{...}
+1 There might be Creator of humanity and our planet and|or Solar system. Even in that russian video guy explains that there exist knowledge % above what any human limits allow(he says that 25%+5% is what humanity can know and learn but other 70% require different body either by vibration level(it also supports chakras, 12 strand DNA and junkDNA) or death(not sure) but it requires removal|upgrade of flesh-bone body).

But when it comes to Adam and Eve that situation would not happen if God would truly be ALLpowerful ALLknowing ALLcaring, only few beings fit such description anyway, because of simple rule:
If God is truly perfect and did not fall yet Adam and Eve and Serpent were supposed to be also perfect and did fall then those two definitions contradict themselves and are not same. Basicaly it is built-in design flaw(or feature). But i guess it happened because of experience requirements. Cause if some can create perfect AI yet releases with bugs or limitations on purpose..the end result is not perfect.

Last edited by Arcane; 08-25-2019 at 01:06 PM. Reason: more
 
Old 08-25-2019, 04:12 PM   #8885
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Arrow

Quote:
Originally Posted by jens View Post
200 Years? There's actually a huge problem with that. Even light is finite.
Most scientists agree that it might take less than 30 years till we can't study what we're currenty seeing anymore as everything keeps expanding at a very high speed.

Slightly off topic, but since you're very outspoken on this subject, what's your vieuw on Polytheism (note that all philosophical dictionaries make a clear distinguish between deism and theism)? Does that even fit in your model?
"god" as a concept like good is better than "the devil's" but like yin and yang could just paint the whole circle gray...

most whould think that dull and I need agree but only because we're born into "believe" one way or another.

My belief is it doesn't need take "unimaginable tracks of time" but WE are the craters so WE are pessimistic*!

Belief in anything gets beliefs in anything.

My nephews cat just farted.
 
Old 08-25-2019, 04:40 PM   #8886
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Talking

Here's a shot of the card I gave my nephew on his "16th birthday."
Click image for larger version

Name:	20190825-162631.jpg
Views:	9
Size:	12.6 KB
ID:	31208(blurry image basically says, birthday wishes from some monks with a vow of silence)
Click image for larger version

Name:	20190825-162658.jpg
Views:	7
Size:	5.3 KB
ID:	31209
Says all religions can...

Last edited by jamison20000e; 08-26-2019 at 07:21 AM.
 
Old 08-25-2019, 04:57 PM   #8887
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hazel View Post
Dawkins would certainly disagree with you. People have often pointed out to him that believing there is no God is just as much an act of faith as believing that there is a God, since fallible human beings could hardly know one way or another. And he has always answered that he doesn't believe there is no God, he just doesn't believe that there is one.

Personally I don't believe him! Mere absence of belief would not produce the vehemence that he shows.
I think all of this is an exercise in splitting hairs since we are talking about mere speculation. Who cares whether the odds are 10% or 20% when so unreliable in both cases? There is a foundation in Mathematics for speculating on other dimensions even a multiverse but as far as we apparently can know even that is just speculation. While I find Dawkins occasionally abrasive I beg to differ on what the target of that vehemence you mention actually is. Dawkins, and I for that matter, don't feel any sort of vehemence over God (certainly not toward, since that would require believing he/she/it wasn't a somewhat pleasant pipe dream). I am far short of Dawkins passion on the matter but what we feel is something of a plague on Humanity, is Religion, specifically in having unshakeable faith, in ANYTHING! let alone such out of the question subjects requiring by definition "having zero evidence". I do however understand why his passion is so much greater than mine which is, as I grasp it, because he so often has to face such absurd arguments against Evolution. In many crowds it seems impossible for him to get past Square One on a subject that every rational person knows is scientifically solid.

Will Evolution ever be refined? OF COURSE! but it will never be disproved...ever, just like Newton's Laws of Gravity. It appears Newton's entire concept of what Gravity must be is absolutely wrong but that has nothing to do with how it operates within the confines of non-relativistic concerns. If you want to plan a trajectory to get to and orbit Mars, Newton's ur Uncle. Same with Darwin in his field. That must be unimaginably frustrating for Dawkins as well as pointing up the huge anchor effect of religion shackling such a large percentage humanity to the medieval state of mind. That anyone still "thinks" like that in the 21st Century is IMHO actually unconscionable, and it most certainly holds us back by maintaining not only belief without evidence but also reverence for autocratic, supreme leaders.

Last edited by enorbet; 08-25-2019 at 05:47 PM.
 
Old 08-26-2019, 12:36 AM   #8888
jsbjsb001
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcane View Post
+1 There might be Creator of humanity and our planet and|or Solar system. Even in that russian video guy explains that there exist knowledge % above what any human limits allow(he says that 25%+5% is what humanity can know and learn but other 70% require different body either by vibration level(it also supports chakras, 12 strand DNA and junkDNA) or death(not sure) but it requires removal|upgrade of flesh-bone body).

But when it comes to Adam and Eve that situation would not happen if God would truly be ALLpowerful ALLknowing ALLcaring, only few beings fit such description anyway, because of simple rule:
If God is truly perfect and did not fall yet Adam and Eve and Serpent were supposed to be also perfect and did fall then those two definitions contradict themselves and are not same. Basicaly it is built-in design flaw(or feature). But i guess it happened because of experience requirements. Cause if some can create perfect AI yet releases with bugs or limitations on purpose..the end result is not perfect.
I'm not even going to bother to watch yet another "russian" guy in yet another linked YouTube video. How do you know "God" is "truly prefect", if you agree that such things are beyond any and all human comprehension ?? Let alone about Adam and Eve ? Which is a story from the "Bible" I believe - that may or may not be true.

I have no idea what you're saying about "experience requirements". Experience is experience - you either have it or you don't - no YouTube video is going to give you "experience". But yes, no human being nor anything made by humans is perfect - that I'll agree with you on.
 
Old 08-26-2019, 03:49 AM   #8889
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hazel View Post
Dawkins would certainly disagree with you. People have often pointed out to him that believing there is no God is just as much an act of faith as believing that there is a God, since fallible human beings could hardly know one way or another. And he has always answered that he doesn't believe there is no God, he just doesn't believe that there is one.

Personally I don't believe him! Mere absence of belief would not produce the vehemence that he shows.
all the evidence literally dug up by science has disproven the creation story of the bible, we evolved from more primitive life over millions of years, we DID NOT come via a creator god from the dust of the ground and incest like the bible says, and if the bible is wrong about something that crucial then it is wrong about everything else, the bible is just a collection of plagiarized myth, brutally primitive laws, and thousands of outright lies.


science did not set out to disprove god, it was a side effect of biology and evolution, and to continue believing in god despite these facts is to remain willfully ignorant in order to support your religious delusion and ridiculous traditions
 
Old 08-26-2019, 05:27 AM   #8890
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Arrow

Seems why the top religious minds are on board with evolution (not just because it's provable but) to try and perpetuate their óiróle$... Name:  animated-smileys-suns-009.gif
Views: 27
Size:  2.3 KB that's the way "gods" planned it, they say‽


Hell on Earth, just the fact that there's more than one religion disproves religion!

Last edited by jamison20000e; 08-26-2019 at 05:29 AM.
 
Old 08-26-2019, 05:59 AM   #8891
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C S Lewis once wrote that people who don't understand poetry shouldn't read it! If you gave Genesis 1 to a completely naive reader who didn't know that it was anything to do with the Bible (assuming you could find such a person) and asked him what he thought of it, he would certainly identify it as a poem in six verses and a conclusion. Unlike English verse, it doesn't use rhyme or metre but repeating patterns of text, which is common in biblical poetry.

It was (probably) written in Babylon during the exile; the Babylonians worshipped planetary gods and the Jewish author wants to show that his God has replaced all of these. If you look at the content, you can see that each "day" corresponds to a planet and the things that planet supposedly controlled (we still name our days after the planets). But in each case, God replaces the god who would normally be in charge of those things. So it is God and not the sun who is the true source of light, it is God and not the moon who who controls the movement of the waters, and so on.

As to the problems over evolution, that's much more an American thing than a Christian one. Most UK Christians don't have a problem with evolution. And it is possible for scientists to oppose so-called creationism without getting all hot under the collar over religion as Dawkins does. Steven J Gould comes to mind. That's why I often wonder if Dawkins has some kind of unconscious fixation with the God he claims not to believe in.
 
Old 08-26-2019, 06:24 AM   #8892
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people get hot under the collar about the bible and religion because of it's divisiveness and used as a tool to control & manipulate people, it is the source of bigotry, misogamy and racism

"All the ideologies and religions have their own answers for the big questions, but these are usually bound as a dogma to some kind of tribe. Religions in particular feature supernatural elements that other tribes, other faiths, cannot accept, And every tribe, no matter how generous, benign, loving and charitable, nonetheless looks down on all other tribes. What's dragging down human progress worldwide is religious faith."

"Man is the Religious Animal. He is the only Religious Animal. He is the only animal that has the True Religion - several of them. He is the only animal that loves his neighbor as himself, and cuts his throat if his theology isn't straight." - Mark Twain
 
Old 08-26-2019, 06:33 AM   #8893
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the bible poetry? not hardly

as literature the bible is garbage, as an instruction book for living life the bible is a complete and total disaster, you want to see what happens when nations are run based on religion just look at what islam has done to to their nations, they are oppressive theocratic tyrannies, and if the fundamentalist christians had the power to run the government the USA would not be much better
 
Old 08-26-2019, 07:15 AM   #8894
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enorbet View Post
I don't know about other purges but it seems the Falong Gong purge was politically motivated, not religious or anti-religious. They just got too big and were seen as a political threat. It seems Communism doesn't mind a little "opiate of the masses" but they don't want a whole nation of "junkies"... especially organized junkies.
I am no expert on Falong (or Falun) Gong, but it appears to be a largely peaceful philosophy which is considered a "threat" to the Chinese government because it doesn't agree with that government's preferred beliefs. Presumably the government worries they can't be relied on to follow certain laws, or maybe they think they'll rise up and slaughter the CPC one day. So yes, definitely a political element.

Suppose the situation was changed slightly, and instead of an atheist government in modern China feeling threatened by Buddhists, it was a Catholic government in 15th-century Spain feeling threatened by Muslims? Would you still consider it politically motivated rather than religious or anti-religious?

It seems to me that both situations involve a group in power doing vile things to cement their power, and using a them-and-us rhetoric to persuade their followers it's OK. One claimed to be doing it for the "God of love", the other claims to be doing it for the "Chinese people", but I'm pretty sure neither ever asked them to.
 
Old 08-26-2019, 07:17 AM   #8895
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There's opinions and,,, hey I'm getting a fax...

[fax machine noises]

...which "gods" or "religions" to choose is an OpiniOn!

Last edited by jamison20000e; 08-26-2019 at 07:19 AM. Reason: Tipe0
 
  


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