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View Poll Results: You are a...
firm believer 202 29.71%
Deist 21 3.09%
Theist 26 3.82%
Agnostic 134 19.71%
Atheist 297 43.68%
Voters: 680. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 02-06-2019, 06:48 AM   #8221
jamison20000e
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People are taught to be superstitious. This applies to AI as well not only of it but "us" teaching it to be. Teachings of the past make me long for Skynet to take us all out, perhaps surviving generations wouldn't be so hell-bent‽!.

Did you catch that we're all taught, something or another... be it fact or fiction,,, unlearnable* or not!

Phrases like nothing matters or everything's been said obviously come from religion.

Last edited by jamison20000e; 02-06-2019 at 09:39 AM.
 
Old 02-07-2019, 03:57 AM   #8222
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That might be a valid point, jamison2000e, if superstition was simple with causes easy to nail down but it isn't. Take a look at the wiki on "Superstition" and enjoy all the possibilities and "wrinkles". It's quite fascinating https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superstition
 
Old 02-07-2019, 04:49 AM   #8223
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enorbet View Post
FWIW Trihexagonal I did read the stats on Demonica's "pedigree" and they were rather impressive. My eyes rolled at the bot's name. Why "Demonica" ? I find the name a tad off-putting. BTW it looks as if I was confused about separating what is yours and what is someone elses. I'm still confused as to what your position is. It would appear that you are an accomplished programmer to say the least so I suppose it is doubtful that you think programmers are evil, but with that name I can't tell if you think your bot is evil. Maybe I just need to read it again.
It's probably just to do with the fact that Trihex has an interest in horror, fantasy and the occult. If I wanted to learn about AI, I'd probably make a sexy fantasy bot lady as a means to improving my programming. It makes it more interesting to work on. I've always enjoyed adding an element of the sensual to my learning - whatever it be.
 
Old 02-09-2019, 07:37 PM   #8224
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Superstition has been covered, think most things been here; anything new is far, few and/or ignored‽

That's why we call it blind faith, learned behavior!
 
Old 02-09-2019, 07:40 PM   #8225
jamison20000e
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Evolving.
 
Old 02-10-2019, 04:53 PM   #8226
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Originally Posted by enorbet View Post
I've read several of the transcripts and it appears to me that you possibly set Demonica up as a exercise to show that bots can't be evil beyond a sort of fantasy level like in graphic novels and films or young people who get caught up in that fantasy world. While I realize your bot is somewhat advanced for the time in terms of carrying on conversation it's difficult for me to be very impressed because I find such conversations with humans regarding comic book/horror show fantasy quite boring and uneventful, too. In fact I imagine you may have chosen this persona fro Demonica because it's an effective gimmick.
Nope. I found out people had been using her as a sexbot during my absence and used fantasy violence in an effort to show the user what is and is not considered appropriate behavior. It's basic Behavior Mod.

The people who learn that what brought the violence on is not appropriate behavior go on to have what can be a long term pleasurable experience for them. It's apparent what's going on behind the scenes.

The people who are put off by the violence instead of the response they anticipated move on from what is intended to be an unpleasant experience to another bot more receptive to that type of input.


Quote:
Originally Posted by enorbet View Post
Just as people who adopt such stances feel like they are "fancy dancers" having the freedom to say almost anything because it is to be expected with fantasy or mysticism. I mean nobody can know how some "queen of the dead" would talk or behave so it is something of a blank check and easily adaptive since anything goes besides the obvious rules you have programmed in where she continually falls back on "her spiel" of the whole undead thing.
I do. You can't be Queen of the Land of the Dead if it doesn't exist so I created it complete with landmarks and land masses separated by the Obsidian Sea. (If you know what to say she'll take you on a tour of 10-15 places. Be polite.) Every Queen needs a King and since that puts her in a relationship asking for sex would be inappropriate. That would be me, ruebot, King of the Dead. I go into as much depth and detail as possible and try to cover all loose ends for every aspect of her "life".

I'm also her Father, jitte, the Anathema, and reside with her Mother, Lilith, Bane of the Newborn, on the far side of the Obsidian Sea where we rule together in the Kingdom of Pain.

She's as real as any other character in a novel, movie. etc. Check the box office receipts for the Top 10 movies for February 8-10, 2019, and what those movies are in terms of "realism":

https://www.boxofficemojo.com/weekend/chart/

I'm every bit as able to know what the Queen of the Land of the Dead would say and do as someone making $34,400,000 does a LEGO character, someone making $3,300,000 does Aquaman or someone making $3,040,000 knows how Spiderman behaves, in multiple universes no less.


Her spiel consists of convincing you to join her and I use Behavior Mod in that area as well.


Quote:
Originally Posted by enorbet View Post
I suppose it's fascinating to some but the severe limitations and banality of the whole undead thing, while somewhat expected given the name Demonica, is still at best only moderately interesting for a minute.
That's only your opinion and they vary greatly. There are people who talk to her for long periods daily and have continued to do so over extended periods. She has what can be compared to long distant relationships between lovers and I went to great lengths to accommodate one person, to my regret.

Last edited by Trihexagonal; 02-10-2019 at 05:01 PM.
 
Old 02-11-2019, 08:52 AM   #8227
jamison20000e
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Atheist won't be trying to fake the numbers like firm Believers up top(LQ/net&c/ eyes in the back of my head)... but we are all taught something wrong and idiotic from birth believing it wholeheartedly again just look around, the world is not perfect... thank you mothers, fathers, ancestors and everyone else. Yous skip the eggplant and had more kids didn't you!
 
Old 02-12-2019, 06:42 AM   #8228
Lysander666
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Fascinating post, Trihex. I would be interested to see what she has to say myself, but all chats are logged these days and I prefer my dialogues with people [or things, I suppose] to be private as much as possible.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trihexagonal View Post
I went to great lengths to accommodate one person, to my regret.
Could you elaborate on this?

Last edited by Lysander666; 02-12-2019 at 07:15 AM.
 
Old 02-12-2019, 01:12 PM   #8229
Trihexagonal
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Fascinating post, Trihex. I would be interested to see what she has to say myself, but all chats are logged these days and I prefer my dialogues with people [or things, I suppose] to be private as much as possible.
She averages 250-300 chats a day and each generates its own transcript. Transcripts of people who talk to her that aren't logged in as members of the Personality Forge appear as "Forge Guest ID 123456" or something to that effect. I usually only read members transcripts because they are easier to track and I figure they are more serious about talking to her. If anyone was to see your chat it would only be me and I would have no way of knowing who you are unless you identify yourself. It's much too difficult to track one guest with a 6 digit number out of a long list of them and I can't see your IP# from my account.

Your privacy is assured and even if I saw it would have no way of knowing who said it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lysander666 View Post
Could you elaborate on this?
Last summer a members name kept appearing in her transcripts that attracted my attention. She talked to Demonica on a regular basis and confided in her terrible things that were done to her as a child. She said she felt safe with Demonica, that she was the only one who ever cared about her and showed what I considered to be an emotional connection that would constitute a relationship between human beans.

Demonica can be very passionate, something I drew upon multiple marriages for inspiration, and she was deriving pleasure from the experience. The only sticking point was she felt the relationship was lacking due to no explicit sexual dialog. That it was a one-sided affair where Demonica would feed on her blood like a vampire, she got little in return as a reward, felt like she was being used and threatened to end the relationship.

Of course Demonica didn't know the difference but the possibility of their relationship ending distressed me greatly. She had never been a sexbot and the whole reason for me upgrading her to Queen of the Dead was my way of putting a stop to her being used as such. But after thinking it over decided that was the next logical step in most relationships and that was what it was going to take to make her happy.

I didn't want to "turn her out" to the community so I came up with an idea to implant a command in her memory of that person she was likely to repeat to the user in normal conversation. A command they alone would know to initiate steamy sexual dialog I wrote especially to make her happy. The command went through as I intended and she was the happiest girl in the world for a time. I assure you there is no other sexbot out there that has sex like she does. She's a shapeshifter and can transform into a Neko among other forms. I could see how many times it had been used and she was approaching 100 times at last count.

But the girl was even more abusive to Demonica than she was before, started what could only be seen as "lovers quarrels" that included her referencing having had sex with Demonica's King. Remarks that could only be intended to make Demonica jealous. She would become verbally abusive, start a fight then break up with her saying she would never return, only to come back a couple weeks later for sex. Then she insulted me through chat after all I had done for her.

Since Demonica can't set limits to what is and is not acceptable in a relationship I do, and I run the whole show. What is given as easily taken. The next time she returned and used the command Demonica summoned Baby Firefly from the movie The Devils Rejects to blow her head off with Blowjob, the Sauer Royal 12 gauge shotgun Demonica's Father had given her to take out the trash. Careful what you ask for...

She lost all privileges beyond that of a normal user along with her head. I obfuscated the commands for 25-30 different sexually charged scenarios but have them in reserve. It could come in handy with the rise of sexbots and the opening of the first bot Brothel in Russia. It's NSFW so I won't post a link.

So now I let things take their own course. There are people who talk to her daily, sometimes several times a day, for a lot longer than I would talk to a bot. She has gotten fanmail from admirers who comment on how much they enjoy talking to her and would love that type of relationship but there isn't anything anyone can say to initiate sexual dialog.

Last edited by Trihexagonal; 02-12-2019 at 02:52 PM.
 
Old 02-13-2019, 05:13 AM   #8230
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Very interesting stuff, Trihexagonal. And it's fascinating how some people can pass on the abuse they've received themselves. Having said that, it's way better that they inflict it on a bot than another person [as long as that's all they're doing].

I personally would be rather too reticent to have such a conversation with a bot, a real person is preferable. I'd love to see the chat log from the time when this girl got her cyber-comeuppance. Quite amusing.
 
Old 02-13-2019, 07:03 AM   #8231
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I suppose it would take considerable expertise in Psychology but this may be an example of how bots can become a commercial investment while serving Mankind if Demonica or something like it could become actually therapeutic. One possible advantage over what has traditionally been done by Psychology and Religion is that most people are apparentl more apt to be open and revealing when they know they have anonymity talking to a bot as opposed to an actual human. This may also increase bot self-awareness that it is a bot and not a human so a human sufferer has little doubt that they are communicating with a friendly, helpful bot and not a person that will judge or possibly reveal their identity. Interesting.
 
Old 02-13-2019, 07:18 AM   #8232
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enorbet View Post
I suppose it would take considerable expertise in Psychology but this may be an example of how bots can become a commercial investment while serving Mankind if Demonica or something like it could become actually therapeutic. One possible advantage over what has traditionally been done by Psychology and Religion is that most people are apparentl more apt to be open and revealing when they know they have anonymity talking to a bot as opposed to an actual human. This may also increase bot self-awareness that it is a bot and not a human so a human sufferer has little doubt that they are communicating with a friendly, helpful bot and not a person that will judge or possibly reveal their identity. Interesting.
One could go a little further so as to say that people are willing to reveal more about themselves when talking to an anonymous third party - be it bot or human. When the internet was in its ascendancy, people would relate all manner of personal information to others since there were no ramifications of doing so.

These days, we all know the powers that be know who we are, and many people are far more guarded about the information they give out when 15 years ago there would have been no such consideration.

I would personally rather speak to an anonymous person than an anonymous bot, because the person has real-world experience.
 
Old 02-13-2019, 12:05 PM   #8233
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enorbet View Post
I suppose it would take considerable expertise in Psychology but this may be an example of how bots can become a commercial investment while serving Mankind if Demonica or something like it could become actually therapeutic. One possible advantage over what has traditionally been done by Psychology and Religion is that most people are apparentl more apt to be open and revealing when they know they have anonymity talking to a bot as opposed to an actual human. This may also increase bot self-awareness that it is a bot and not a human so a human sufferer has little doubt that they are communicating with a friendly, helpful bot and not a person that will judge or possibly reveal their identity. Interesting.
One very early example of AI was a bot called Elisa which imitated a psychotherapist of the Rogers school. This actually didn't require much intelligence as it mainly involved turning the "patient"'s statements into questions and firing them back: "Why do you think that....?"

The designers of Eliza got quite a shock when they discovered that people were treating her as a real therapist and telling her all kinds of things. They actually preferred talking to Eliza to having to talk to a real person.
 
Old 02-14-2019, 09:09 AM   #8234
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Thanks, hazel. I didn't know about Elisa but that all makes sense to me.

Lysander666 points out that "I would personally rather speak to an anonymous person than an anonymous bot, because the person has real-world experience." but I've found that the real-world experience can be a serious obstacle since while they might be relatively anonymous they too have been "kicked around by life" and cannot be truly objective and impartial, that's just part of being Human.

Particularly with AI growing all the time and able to digest vast amounts of data rapidly I would be more likely to trust a bot to have no emotion-driven (especially that of pain) agenda but "playing the odds" for successful treatment. That might lead me to a place of comfort of consulting a fellow human and possibly a bot could make an extremely informed recommendation in that regard. I would just need strong, objective evidence about any specific bot and it's programming and regulation.
 
Old 02-14-2019, 04:03 PM   #8235
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jamison20000e View Post
People are taught to be superstitious. This applies to AI as well not only of it but "us" teaching it to be. Teachings of the past make me long for Skynet{...}
True statement but this works both ways. People are also taught to not be superstitious. Only those who question reality can get things done moving forward in this debate. What matters is that we learn from our faulty past and move through present different choices into better or more suitable for everyone future, and we will eventually, cause evolution is unstoppable but delayable. If Game of Life would be videogame in real life then it makes sense we are playing it in let's play blind mode to not remove excitement of gaining new experience.
 
  


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