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Minor correction: Candlemas was in February, had nothing to do with winter solstice.
Candlemas is actually half way between the winter solstice and the spring equinox. The Celts had four of these halfway feasts, which became christianised as Candlemas, May Day, Lammas and Halloween. I believe modern witches celebrate these along with the solstices and equinoxes, so their year is an 8-spoked wheel.
In the christian year, Candlemas celebrates the visit of Mary to the Temple 40 days after the birth of her child, to be purified according to Jewish law.
Candlemas is actually half way between the winter solstice and the spring equinox. The Celts had four of these halfway feasts, which became christianised as Candlemas, May Day, Lammas and Halloween. I believe modern witches celebrate these along with the solstices and equinoxes, so their year is an 8-spoked wheel.
Yes, in full, the wheel of the year is Beltaine [1st May]; Litha [21st June - midsummer]; Lammas [1st August - first harvest {corn}]; Mabon [21st Sept - second harvest {fruits/vegetables}]; Samhain [31st Oct - third harvest {nuts/berries}]; Yule [21st Dec]; Imbolc [2nd Feb]; Ostara [21st March]. The first four are the 'light half' of the year, the second four are the 'dark half'.
Last edited by Lysander666; 12-27-2018 at 07:08 AM.
I still think we should focus more on actual truth (whatever it may be) about life and world not unfinialized ideas regardless of human origins or planet. It does not depend on each other. What difference does it makes who created creator(s) of humanity if we are somehow created? None. Should focus more about what future we want for this planet than argue about irrevelant topics like this.
I think that's an astute concern, Arcane, or would be if it didn't assume "creation", and that, to me, is exactly the point. It is made into a salient point not by simple Spirituality but Spirituality organized into formal Religion, at least the vast majority of them. Once organized those religions have wealth and power and since they also subscribe to the concept that they are somehow "The Chosen" they ruin any hope of anything like a level playing field. When you add the requirement of unquestioning loyalty and commitment we have a recipe for Authoritarianism and that is a very dangerous precedent.
I think that's an astute concern, Arcane, or would be if it didn't assume "creation", and that, to me, is exactly the point. It is made into a salient point not by simple Spirituality but Spirituality organized into formal Religion, at least the vast majority of them. Once organized those religions have wealth and power and since they also subscribe to the concept that they are somehow "The Chosen" they ruin any hope of anything like a level playing field. When you add the requirement of unquestioning loyalty and commitment we have a recipe for Authoritarianism and that is a very dangerous precedent.
This idea works both ways. Truth seeking ignores this BIAS and goes ignoring "what if"'s and accepts reality with or without it. You clearly did not read the point of my comments before. I am simply saying both sides can't claim without 100% evidence. But what we can claim is the world is not so shallow as it appears. Studying and time wil answer this mystery not our arguing on internet.
Science and Religion are not yet done books. This is what i was saying. We still have puzzles to solve and info updates to gain over time and effort and Trial&Error experiments. Either that or Deity or Creators will answer those questions. But possibility exist! And as long as missing final proof will not be delivered publicly for all this is still idea about Evolution or Creation. It is like Windows vs Linux vs BSD vs other system. All sides have + and - but none can actually deliver final blow why something is better or worse. So we will stay in Neutral.
Last edited by Arcane; 01-24-2019 at 08:36 AM.
Reason: typo
Ooh! I'm sure you didn't mean anything by that comment to pixellany, and I sure hope it doesn't come back to bite you in the butt! Probably should be more careful in your commenting, there. I read it as he said he said he doesn't think it's your business, then you called him a satanist. Not good.
Anyway, I suppose I'm a faithful, yet non-practicing Christian.
contradict each other.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SlowCoder
I don't go to church regularly, but I think about God many times a day, and try to do what I think is right.
Don't let that come and bite you in the butt in the end. Because what you think is right, and what God says is right can turn out to be two completely different things, and if your "right" does not match God's right, then you were wrong, and what does that get you in the end?
along with trying and doing are two completely different things.
you might as well think about the price of milk on the open market and apply that same "and try to do what I think is right". chances are it will get you the same results.
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Hey BW, I don't mean to be rude to you or anything, but SlowCoder hasn't logged in since 02-14-12 at 02:43 AM, so they probably ain't going to respond to your post.
BTW, and I also don't mean to be rude to you, and each to their own, but are you a Christian? It's just I would not have picked you for being a Christian, that's all. It's totally ok if you are. I'm not trying to make fun of it or anything, just wondering that's all.
Hey BW, I don't mean to be rude to you or anything, but SlowCoder hasn't logged in since 02-14-12 at 02:43 AM, so they probably ain't going to respond to your post.
BTW, and I also don't mean to be rude to you, and each to their own, but are you a Christian? It's just I would not have picked you for being a Christian, that's all. It's totally ok if you are. I'm not trying to make fun of it or anything, just wondering that's all.
regardless if I am a Christian or not. Think about that person is saying. It is full of contradiction.
we can apply it to other belief systems that are not a religion.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SlowCoder View Post
Modified to apply it to a non religious belief system;
Buddhism
Anyway, I suppose I'm a faithful, yet non-practicing Buddhist.
I don't go to a temple regularly, but I think about Buddha many times a day, and try to do what I think is right.
the belief system is build out of what? ideas that are believed to be a truth. Because the belief system is suppose to only have truths within it so the mind can have the person doing what is right, in accordance (to what is believes to be a truth, if not yet proven to be one) to a truth that is being held within the belief system that pertains to the action of the person that is using it.
everyone is wanting to doing what is right. No one likes being wrong proves that.Being wrong about something proves that whatever that someone is doing is not being done right, therefore it is wrong, and errors will be the only thing that can come out of being wrong.
Man was created for nothing but the truth. The five senses prove that. It gives the brain the truth to process it. The eyes see an object. is the object there? the hand touches the object to prove to the mind what the eyes see. a truth is gained.
that truth is stored within the belief system for later use.
the eyes see a plate of food, from experience the mind knows it is real, therefore a truth that has been established is used from the belief system. The hands touch the food, again the truth is reinforced by the sense of touch. Now a different sense is appled so the mind with know if the food it sees is good or not.
taste: Taste tells the mind another truth, does it taste good or bad?
hearing too gives the mind a truth. it either hears something or it does not hear something.
Even Atheist try to apply this truth to there belief systems.Many boast about how they are all about the truth. Penn and Teller being an example.
to say one does not have a belief system is a lie, and they are deceiving themselves.
if you ask someone what they believe in, and they say "I don't believe in anything." Then they have not answered the question.
Man was created for truth. Without it one is living a lie about themselves, always in error in one form or another.
To try and do something, and actually doing something. these are two completely different things.
to be faithful to ones belief system and non practicing in the same belief system, that is a contradiction.
if a man says, I am faithful to my wife, I think about her all of the time, and I try to practice my wedding vows I gave her. is saying what?
The later cancels out the first.
the mind is used to discern what is put before it to come up with a truth about it. If the mind is wrong in its conclusion. then a lie is placed within the belief system, held as a truth. error shall arise as a direct result of it.
With out the truth one can never be right, and is forever wrong.
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Just for the record, I voted Agnostic.
I do believe there would be something bigger than us humans, don't get me wrong, but I cannot see how we could possibly have any real understanding about such things (ie. I'm Agnostic).
I don't honestly disagree with a lot of what you said above BW. I wasn't trying to imply anything either, I was honestly just wondering. I didn't mean to offend you (not saying you were offended).
I just don't agree with (and I'm not saying you are trying to) people trying to "convert" others, as to me, it should be up to each person to decide what they believe - right, wrong or indifferent.
Just for the record, I voted Agnostic.
I do believe there would be something bigger than us humans, don't get me wrong, but I cannot see how we could possibly have any real understanding about such things (ie. I'm Agnostic).
I don't honestly disagree with a lot of what you said above BW. I wasn't trying to imply anything either, I was honestly just wondering. I didn't mean to offend you (not saying you were offended).
I just don't agree with (and I'm not saying you are trying to) people trying to "convert" others, as to me, it should be up to each person to decide what they believe - right, wrong or indifferent.
be honest with yourself so you can be honest with others, you were looking for truths.
Jesus said,
19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”
that is a commandment from God. What happens to one that is caught disobeying laws?
if one is offended by the truth, then what can be said of them?
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Once again BW, and I don't wish to offend you nor will I be arguing with you about it, but the Bible was written by humans, not the one you call "God". And if in the next life (assuming there is one) the "big fella" wants to judge me, then I'm more than happy for him or it to.
There is a reason why we call it a "belief", because that's exactly what it is;
I DON'T MEAN TO OFFEND YOU..... and if you still did offend someone, then who fault is that?
the one doing the offending, or the one being offended?
saying that at the start of every sentence is you just trying to do what?
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsbjsb001
[nor] will I be arguing with you about it,
"Arguing is the olympics of talking."
Argument:
a reason or set of reasons given with the aim of persuading others that an action or idea is right or wrong.
people argue in here (LQ) all of the time, what is wrong with argument?
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsbjsb001
but the Bible was written by humans, not the one you call "God".
Gods hand is way to big. two, God crated man, we are suppose to be instruments of the one that created us, to do His will in what we do. If God willed man to write down for Him what He wanted others to read, then you are you to say different?
How do you think God makes His presents known in this world?
Man is slave to something, and in being so they become instruments of that in which they are a slave to, doing what it wills them to do.
Man may even go as far as to say, I have a will of mine own, I am a master of my own destiny. All man as is free will. A brain that was given the five senses to give the mind the truth. and a mind to reason in oder so they can exercise their free will that was given to them in order so that they might find the TRUTH of where they came from, ans who they really are.
So pick your master well, or you'll end up deceiving yourself and allowing yourself to be deceived.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsbjsb001
And if in the next life (assuming there is one) the "big fella" wants to judge me, then I'm more than happy for him or it to.
I'd hardly think you will be saying that when you are judged for your beliefs, that directly dictated your actions.
Because when you find out you where wrong in just sitting around waiting until you die in order to find out the truth of Gods existence, and then get judged for you not believing in Him during your life span then hell is where you'll end up for not doing as he said, therefore your punishment is hell. eternal damnation.
here you are trying to play it safe with me in all of your
" I don't wish to offend you" 's, with man and not worrying about if you are offending God or not.
Not even trying to play it safe on the larger scale.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsbjsb001
There is a reason why we call it a "belief", because that's exactly what it is;
dictionary says:
An acceptance that something exists or is true, especially one without proof.
‘his belief in extraterrestrial life’
I said:
the belief system is build out of what? ideas that are believed to be a truth....
if they are proved to not be a truth then what is it? a lie.
again, God gave man a brain with the ability to reason. Five senses to gain truths, and the mind with the ability to have belief, faith, and hope, and reason.
This idea works both ways. Truth seeking ignores this BIAS and goes ignoring "what if"'s and accepts reality with or without it. You clearly did not read the point of my comments before. I am simply saying both sides can't claim without 100% evidence. But what we can claim is the world is not so shallow as it appears. Studying and time wil answer this mystery not our arguing on internet.
What bias? We have history, science, and philosophy books and we can look around us and see what has actually been successful at shaping our world. What has answered the most questions? It isn't philosophy. Science is all about "what ifs" but it requires overwhelming evidence to be accepted as anything anyone can count on as likely. What do you propose to improve on that?
You keep mentioning "unfinalized ideas" and "final blows". All ideas are less than final since things take place in Spacetime and those conditions change. The best we have are high probabilities, but those are sufficient. We can't know everything but we don't need to. Regarding so-called "creator(s)" we cannot now nor likely ever gather any evidence from before the Universe existed so that will very likely forever be a mystery and that's OK. We play the hands we are dealt. It is useless to speculate on how it would be, what we would or should do if we had four aces instead of one, or none. There is no such thing as 100% evidence or knowledge, but people often fall into the trap of using that as a springboard to falsely level ALL ideas even speculation and that is obviously fallacious.
It is entirely possible though incredibly unlikely that in the next few seconds I find myself instantly transported elsewhere. It is overwhelmingly more likely that instead I will be right here at my desk typing the next words. So which would you bet on? The rules of logic that guide critical thinking show us that we can come to all manner of ridiculous even meaningless conclusions if we start from a false premise. It's loosely summarized as "Garbage in = Garbage out". Some examples of this you already linked here...
Neither of those are actually scientific, having solid evidence. The first one does a good job of masquerading as Science but it is not. It is a loose conglomeration of actual science and speculation used to draw a conclusion which by the rules of Logic must be fallacious since no amount of Truth in one negates the Falsehood in the other and as a premise MUST lead to a false, meaningless conclusion. It's pseudoscience and it is utterly common on social media and especially in fiction movies and books.
It claims to be "Quantum Gravity Research" but anyone can use any name they want for a YouTube channel without any reason at all. You could have a channel called "Dogs" and host only videos about Cats. Even actual Quantum Gravity Research is on highly mysterious ground since 99% of what we have so far is Mathematics, which is incredibly powerful but it too requires starting from a known premise. Gravity is the single most important mystery we presently struggle with and whether or not it is Quantized is still a huge question. Entire branches of it were killed off with a single blow of actual evidence and casts extreme doubt on the whole Holographic Simulation concept.
There are actually several real and scientific experiments to observe actual data. Fermilab and ESA are two older examples and LIGO will very likely add a great deal of information over the next decade, but for now the most valuable is this one from ESA
.. and it's worthy of note the Fermilab experimental data seems to agree from an entirely different track. Other than these few there is NO DATA yet supporting Quantum Gravity. There is some really beautiful Mathematics but that is an unqualified (as of yet) speculation, not observation. We could calculate the physical requirements and prove that it was possible for a horse-like creature to have a single horn protruding from it's head but that in no way proves the existence of Unicorns, let alone that a horse-sized creature could fly in Earth's atmosphere and gravity. They make a pretty picture but they aren't real.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcane
Science and Religion are not yet done books. This is what i was saying. We still have puzzles to solve and info updates to gain over time and effort and Trial&Error experiments. Either that or Deity or Creators will answer those questions. But possibility exist! And as long as missing final proof will not be delivered publicly for all this is still idea about Evolution or Creation. It is like Windows vs Linux vs BSD vs other system. All sides have + and - but none can actually deliver final blow why something is better or worse. So we will stay in Neutral.
Religion's "book" IS done. Religion may have had a purpose when all people had was superstition and speculation, but look around you and ask yourself what evidence, let alone "final Truth" has Religion provided you? To be clear I'm not talking about personal spirituality which from my point of view is just choosing to believe in something that lacks sufficient evidence to have high probability. I don't think it's wise, but it apparently serves some people and makes their lives easier and more comforting, but even that leads to nothing else of any value that couldn't be achieved by simpler, more reliable means. What remaining "puzzle" do you imagine Religion can solve and what leads you to believe that it is even possible for creator(s) to answer human questions? There is no reliable evidence that has ever happened or even could happen unless you believe in Magick.
Your analogy of comparing operating systems completely ignores specificity. It's like asking why hasn't some single eating utensil replaced knives, forks and spoons. Many things that are "good for the goose" are also "good for the gander" but some things are not. Some foods are tender enough that a spoon or a fork can manage the job of cutting but if you try to eat peas with a knife, or soup with a fork, you'll likely stay hungry. The test of tools is simple - Does it work? and in what kinds of instances under what conditions? Period. That's reality.
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