LinuxQuestions.org
Help answer threads with 0 replies.
Go Back   LinuxQuestions.org > Forums > Non-*NIX Forums > General
User Name
Password
General This forum is for non-technical general discussion which can include both Linux and non-Linux topics. Have fun!

Notices


View Poll Results: You are a...
firm believer 206 29.94%
Deist 21 3.05%
Theist 26 3.78%
Agnostic 135 19.62%
Atheist 300 43.60%
Voters: 688. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
  Search this Thread
Old 09-02-2016, 03:36 AM   #7066
enorbet
Senior Member
 
Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Virginia
Distribution: Slackware = Main OpSys for decades while testing others to keep up
Posts: 2,381

Rep: Reputation: 2399Reputation: 2399Reputation: 2399Reputation: 2399Reputation: 2399Reputation: 2399Reputation: 2399Reputation: 2399Reputation: 2399Reputation: 2399Reputation: 2399

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fixit7 View Post
Not biased at all.
So you were serious. Interesting. Can you not see that "Mega Faith and Religion Tread" that begins with a Poll that includes levels of Faith, Undecided as well as Non-Religious covers everyone but "Heaven Bound" not only excludes Undecided and Non but any religion (or any manner of spiritual attunement) other than Christian? That is the very definition of Bias and Prejudice.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fixit7 View Post
Maybe you have some unresolved guilt ?
Guilt about what? Critical Thinking? Reason? Not on my life!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fixit7 View Post
And you may fall in the category of a complainer.
I'm not privy to your definition of "complainer" but if you mean one who complains to moderators here, most definitely not. If you look at my sidebar you will see that I joined LQN in 2003 and in nearly 2000 posts (some posts are not calculated in the sidebar) I never once reported anyone and only threatened such once when OregonJim became obviously and provably deceptive, personally abusive, sanctimonious and irate. I don't even know if anyone reported the incident. I was publicly threatened with a weeklong ban, too, as was OJ. Aside from those statistics and despite my obvious strong opinion and lack of fear of intellectual confrontation, I am also generally congenial and polite as I hope is reflected in my Rep Bar. I don't see myself as a complainer. If you do, you are welcome to that opinion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fixit7 View Post
Who is the forum moderator?
Jeremy is the owner of the Forum but If you mean the one that stepped in with such a respectful and even-handed manner on the incident that I recounted, I recall that was UniSpawn. The incident came to a head somewhere around page 400 IIRC but it was many pages before that where the attempt at pawning off one's own words as part of a scientific study took place. I am only aware now of the approximate location because I literally spent hours searching through this thread, page by page, to insure I was accurate. Like everyone else, I have the same human defects that allow or promote fuzziness, laziness, and hypocrisy but I do work to keep them in check and police myself. Mistakes are an essential part of the learning process so I have no qualms with "owning up". I welcome it. It is one thing to "be wrong" but quite another to "stay wrong" out of some sense of competitive ego or intellectual dishonesty.

I point all this out, not only because you asked, but to substantiate that this thread is something to be proud of, regardless of POV, not apologized for and especially not deleted People can learn a great deal from this thread, the manner in which it is moderated and the responsible way adults should conduct themselves in a public forum of diverse people on a powderkeg subject. That you came to such a drastic (and biased) conclusion with so little experience of the whole is part of that lesson. I hope you learn from it, too. I have learned a great deal here and it is both humbling and enlightening at the same time. What's better than that?

Last edited by enorbet; 09-02-2016 at 03:40 AM.
 
Old 09-02-2016, 04:00 AM   #7067
Fixit7
Senior Member
 
Registered: Mar 2014
Location: El Lago, Texas
Distribution: Ubuntu_Mate 16.04
Posts: 1,374

Rep: Reputation: 169Reputation: 169
No problem enorbet.

I have gotten P.M.s from many folks that understand the "Big Picture."

And that encourages me.

I ask that you treat me like that adult I am.

I am not a child.

Please do not insult me.
 
Old 09-02-2016, 04:43 AM   #7068
enorbet
Senior Member
 
Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Virginia
Distribution: Slackware = Main OpSys for decades while testing others to keep up
Posts: 2,381

Rep: Reputation: 2399Reputation: 2399Reputation: 2399Reputation: 2399Reputation: 2399Reputation: 2399Reputation: 2399Reputation: 2399Reputation: 2399Reputation: 2399Reputation: 2399
Fixit7 - Could you please tell me where, with what words, I insulted you personally or treated you as a child? Kindly use quotes as a matter of proper record, OK? If I did I will apologize. If I didn't, I will explain why it may have seemed so.
 
Old 09-02-2016, 05:01 AM   #7069
jamison20000e
Senior Member
 
Registered: Nov 2005
Location: ...uncanny valley... infinity\1975; (randomly born:) Milwaukee, WI, US( + travel,) Earth( I wish,) END BORDER$!◣◢┌∩┐ Fe26-E,e...
Distribution: any GPL that works well on my cheapest; has been KDE or CLI but open... http://goo.gl/NqgqJx &c ;-)
Posts: 3,833
Blog Entries: 2

Rep: Reputation: 1309Reputation: 1309Reputation: 1309Reputation: 1309Reputation: 1309Reputation: 1309Reputation: 1309Reputation: 1309Reputation: 1309Reputation: 1309
If your "Big Picture" was buffalo on a cave wall? I'd take you seriously, most would... but, if you as a grown person still believe in santy claws plus the easterrr bunny that's the world and your fault.

Last edited by jamison20000e; 09-02-2016 at 05:42 AM. Reason: type-o
 
Old 09-02-2016, 05:28 AM   #7070
hydrurga
LQ Guru
 
Registered: Nov 2008
Location: Pictland
Distribution: Linux Mint 19.1 MATE
Posts: 8,016
Blog Entries: 5

Rep: Reputation: 2859Reputation: 2859Reputation: 2859Reputation: 2859Reputation: 2859Reputation: 2859Reputation: 2859Reputation: 2859Reputation: 2859Reputation: 2859Reputation: 2859
One of the things that disappoints me about folk who are entrenched in their religious beliefs is how they very often take any sort of criticism of their beliefs as an insult, not only to them personally but to their religion. It is a very handy way of attempting to deflect debate.
 
Old 09-02-2016, 11:52 AM   #7071
rtmistler
Moderator
 
Registered: Mar 2011
Location: MA, USA
Distribution: MINT Debian, Angstrom, SUSE, Ubuntu, Debian
Posts: 8,010
Blog Entries: 13

Rep: Reputation: 3451Reputation: 3451Reputation: 3451Reputation: 3451Reputation: 3451Reputation: 3451Reputation: 3451Reputation: 3451Reputation: 3451Reputation: 3451Reputation: 3451
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fixit7 View Post
I say delete this thread for a fresh start.

Start a new one...maybe call it 'Heaven Bound'.

I am serious.

I expect a plethora of complaints, especially from those whose day is not made unless they are complaining. :-)
What I see here is someone whose day is not made unless they project their believes to other people, as if it's a scorecard or something.

I believe this thread should be left intact.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fixit7 View Post
You did not answer my question. :-)

You should probably not make excuses for them.

Just my opinion.

I roll my eyes at many things my daughters and grand kids do.

I still say what needs to what needs to be said.

"If You Don’t Stand for Something, You’ll Fall for Anything."
Some of us have said what we stand for. Now, you can use the search function for this thread and search by user to check what people have said over the years. Perhaps that will help you to understand why all thread discussions about religion do end up being merged here.

I stand for something, your eye rolling is because you don't agree with what I stand for.

Noting also that sitting there rolling one's eyes in disapproval of their kids and grandkids doesn't equate to saying something about it to them. Social behavior is also not defined as elders pronounce and youth listens. I hope that as your children grew and had children of their own that you realized that somewhere along the line they learned some stuff. If you feel that your children are grossly inadequate to form their own opinions, then how did this all come to be?
Quote:
Originally Posted by hydrurga View Post
One of the things that disappoints me about folk who are entrenched in their religious beliefs is how they very often take any sort of criticism of their beliefs as an insult, not only to them personally but to their religion. It is a very handy way of attempting to deflect debate.
A much more elegant way to state the point I was just making. Good job, Hydrurga!
 
Old 09-02-2016, 08:37 PM   #7072
jamison20000e
Senior Member
 
Registered: Nov 2005
Location: ...uncanny valley... infinity\1975; (randomly born:) Milwaukee, WI, US( + travel,) Earth( I wish,) END BORDER$!◣◢┌∩┐ Fe26-E,e...
Distribution: any GPL that works well on my cheapest; has been KDE or CLI but open... http://goo.gl/NqgqJx &c ;-)
Posts: 3,833
Blog Entries: 2

Rep: Reputation: 1309Reputation: 1309Reputation: 1309Reputation: 1309Reputation: 1309Reputation: 1309Reputation: 1309Reputation: 1309Reputation: 1309Reputation: 1309
Arrow

Do you kill for insults? "Defiance's: Indogene-Gulanee" do (sometimes) and so do "humans" whether you choose to know (or ignore) it or not; idiots!!! Ignorance is only bliss the same...

Last edited by jamison20000e; 09-03-2016 at 03:45 AM.
 
Old 09-03-2016, 11:20 AM   #7073
DavidMcCann
LQ Veteran
 
Registered: Jul 2006
Location: London
Distribution: CentOS, Xubuntu
Posts: 5,299

Rep: Reputation: 1820Reputation: 1820Reputation: 1820Reputation: 1820Reputation: 1820Reputation: 1820Reputation: 1820Reputation: 1820Reputation: 1820Reputation: 1820Reputation: 1820
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fixit7 View Post
I say delete this thread for a fresh start. Start a new one...maybe call it 'Heaven Bound'.
So, a thread for Christians, Jews, and Muslims only? You can have a religion without heaven and hell: millions of us do.
 
Old 09-03-2016, 09:31 PM   #7074
sundialsvcs
LQ Guru
 
Registered: Feb 2004
Location: SE Tennessee, USA
Distribution: Gentoo, LFS
Posts: 9,078
Blog Entries: 4

Rep: Reputation: 3176Reputation: 3176Reputation: 3176Reputation: 3176Reputation: 3176Reputation: 3176Reputation: 3176Reputation: 3176Reputation: 3176Reputation: 3176Reputation: 3176
Quote:
Originally Posted by hydrurga View Post
One of the things that disappoints me about folk who are entrenched in their religious beliefs is how they very often take any sort of criticism of their beliefs as an insult, not only to them personally but to their religion. It is a very handy way of attempting to deflect debate.
You just have to tiptoe around that reaction. People take religion very(!) personally ... some more than others.
 
Old 09-03-2016, 09:33 PM   #7075
sundialsvcs
LQ Guru
 
Registered: Feb 2004
Location: SE Tennessee, USA
Distribution: Gentoo, LFS
Posts: 9,078
Blog Entries: 4

Rep: Reputation: 3176Reputation: 3176Reputation: 3176Reputation: 3176Reputation: 3176Reputation: 3176Reputation: 3176Reputation: 3176Reputation: 3176Reputation: 3176Reputation: 3176
So, what do you think of "Big Bang?"

The Scientific version of "Let There Be!"

What say ye? Is there actually a scientific basis for this theory, or not?

Do you think that it should be taught in our schools as "science?" Or is it "no more science than any other religion?"

Let's pick a topic ... I suggest this one ... and gather around the water cooler and start talking once again about a topic, instead of each other and/or this forum. Shall we?

Let the discussions begin! "Six Hundred Pages or Bust!"
 
Old 09-03-2016, 11:11 PM   #7076
enorbet
Senior Member
 
Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Virginia
Distribution: Slackware = Main OpSys for decades while testing others to keep up
Posts: 2,381

Rep: Reputation: 2399Reputation: 2399Reputation: 2399Reputation: 2399Reputation: 2399Reputation: 2399Reputation: 2399Reputation: 2399Reputation: 2399Reputation: 2399Reputation: 2399
Quote:
Originally Posted by sundialsvcs View Post
The Scientific version of "Let There Be!"

What say ye? Is there actually a scientific basis for this theory, or not?

Do you think that it should be taught in our schools as "science?" Or is it "no more science than any other religion?"
We've already touched on this but OK. Here goes.

Origin of the Universe

Religion

Utterly NON scientific by definition since there is ZERO repeatable, objective evidence that can be tested in any way. Every religion to my knowledge has a Creation Myth and ALL assume something existed before and outside our Time and our Space. In one way or another all of them are "Turtles all the way down". Colorful. Fascinating... but lacking the foggiest shred of any basis whatsoever in reality.

Science

While speculation also exists, including Theoretical Physics and Predictive Mathematics (especially since the discovery of some fundamentals of Quantum Mechanics), Big Bang is Pure Science in that it only rests on what we can observe and test, making no predictions earlier than a few billionths of a second after the Universe as we know it began to expand and cool.

Big Bang Theory is incredibly simple as it is entirely based on our concept of Time and observable Expansion. It is logical that if, as observed by several different methods all in fundamental agreement that Expansion is occurring, it was less expanded yesterday, the day before that, the year before that, a billion years before that and so on, since we observe that in order for motion to change in velocity or direction, some force must oppose the original force that set it in motion in the first place. Therefore it is logical that at some point it was a single point. There is corroborative evidence in the Cosmic Background Radiation on the macro scale and in the micro scale based on observable conditions when the earlier, denser, higher energy states are created in particle accelerators, such as at Cern.

So in a very real sense, Big Bang is not about Creation since it has never pretended to go back far enough to the exact beginning since a point is a singularity, which means the laws of Physics themselves came into being along with everything else at the same moment. Since the current state of technology cannot observe things even on the Planck Scale, there is no known way of observing anything past a certain point that although it keeps getting pushed back further and further in Time, it cannot be assumed we will ever be able to observe anything at the exact moment of Beginning, let alone whatever may possibly have come before. It may be impossible to discover if this is The Only Universe, one of many iterations of The Universe, or one of a multitude of Universes.

In this specific regard there is no contest between Science and Religion exactly because Science limits itself to what can be known, what is repeatable and testable by anyone with the skills and in some cases, equipment. The only contest is in Deep Time and Deep Space - SpaceTime. In that realm, Science demonstrably rules.
 
Old 09-04-2016, 01:59 AM   #7077
hazel
Senior Member
 
Registered: Mar 2016
Location: Harrow, UK
Distribution: LFS, AntiX, Slackware
Posts: 3,284
Blog Entries: 9

Rep: Reputation: 1840Reputation: 1840Reputation: 1840Reputation: 1840Reputation: 1840Reputation: 1840Reputation: 1840Reputation: 1840Reputation: 1840Reputation: 1840Reputation: 1840
The only scientific statement you can make about the big bang is that it definitely happened. All the speculations about what caused it are pure mythology.

In Norse mythology there is a preexisting world containing two things: ice and fire. There is no explanation of where either came from. Where they meet, fog forms and out of that fog there crystallises a giant and a cow. The giant lives on the cow's milk and the cow lives by licking salt off the ice. As she continues to lick, a man gradually appears out of the ice. He marries the giant's daughter, and their three sons kill the giant and make the earth and everything in it out of his body.

In the modern "scientific" myth, there is a preexisting world containing two things: a quantum vacuum and a set of scientific laws (which cause it to behave as a quantum vacuum and not a classical one). There is no explanation of where either came from. Where they meet, there is an explosive change of state in the vacuum which creates the universe and everything in it.

I don't see much difference between these two stories. Why is one "science" and the other not?
 
Old 09-04-2016, 07:06 AM   #7078
malekmustaq
Senior Member
 
Registered: Dec 2008
Location: root
Distribution: Slackware & BSD
Posts: 1,667

Rep: Reputation: 494Reputation: 494Reputation: 494Reputation: 494Reputation: 494
Quote:
gather around the water cooler and start talking once again about a topic, instead of each other and/or this forum. Shall we?
§
Agree.
Keep all passions within due bounds.
And utterance aim at the angle of the Square.
§
 
Old 09-04-2016, 08:09 AM   #7079
ntubski
Senior Member
 
Registered: Nov 2005
Distribution: Debian, Arch
Posts: 3,498

Rep: Reputation: 1806Reputation: 1806Reputation: 1806Reputation: 1806Reputation: 1806Reputation: 1806Reputation: 1806Reputation: 1806Reputation: 1806Reputation: 1806Reputation: 1806
Quote:
Originally Posted by hazel View Post
The only scientific statement you can make about the big bang is that it definitely happened.
Saying something "definitely happened" is not a scientific statement. A scientific statement would be more along the lines of "all the available evidence is consistent with this happening".

Some (a few earlier in this very thread, if I recall correctly) might point to the lack of certainty and say "See, science doesn't really know anything for sure, but religion does, so religion has more knowledge". But claiming certainty is not the same as having it.

Quote:
In the modern "scientific" myth, there is a preexisting world containing two things: a quantum vacuum and a set of scientific laws (which cause it to behave as a quantum vacuum and not a classical one).
Likewise the ice giant story implicitly assumes a basic set of laws such that everything behaves in a "sane" human-comprehensible way.

Quote:
I don't see much difference between these two stories. Why is one "science" and the other not?
The "scientific" one makes less assumptions, the ice giant story fails Occam's razor.
 
Old 09-04-2016, 10:35 AM   #7080
jamison20000e
Senior Member
 
Registered: Nov 2005
Location: ...uncanny valley... infinity\1975; (randomly born:) Milwaukee, WI, US( + travel,) Earth( I wish,) END BORDER$!◣◢┌∩┐ Fe26-E,e...
Distribution: any GPL that works well on my cheapest; has been KDE or CLI but open... http://goo.gl/NqgqJx &c ;-)
Posts: 3,833
Blog Entries: 2

Rep: Reputation: 1309Reputation: 1309Reputation: 1309Reputation: 1309Reputation: 1309Reputation: 1309Reputation: 1309Reputation: 1309Reputation: 1309Reputation: 1309
It's common sense, seeds form things and infinity exists as forming and decay... get over "y"ourselfs(.)
 
  


Reply

Tags
bible, censorship, christ, christian, determinism, education, faith, free will, god, human stupidity, humor, islam, jesus, magic roundabout, mythology, nihilism, peace, pointless, polytheism, poser, quran, religion, virtue, war, zealot


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
New Religion (no linux in this thread, sorry) Calum General 16 07-11-2016 01:48 PM
The touchpad "tapping" questions answers and solutions mega-thread tommytomthms5 Linux - Laptop and Netbook 4 10-30-2007 06:01 PM
What is your religion? jspenguin General 9 04-25-2004 01:28 PM

LinuxQuestions.org > Forums > Non-*NIX Forums > General

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:17 PM.

Main Menu
Advertisement
My LQ
Write for LQ
LinuxQuestions.org is looking for people interested in writing Editorials, Articles, Reviews, and more. If you'd like to contribute content, let us know.
Main Menu
Syndicate
RSS1  Latest Threads
RSS1  LQ News
Twitter: @linuxquestions
Facebook: linuxquestions Google+: linuxquestions
Open Source Consulting | Domain Registration