The Faith & Religion mega Thread

Originally Posted by OregonJim You mean you're not? You just gave us permission to squish you under our feet. C'mon...THINK!

I guess you have not checked out my about me page in my profile or know how big I am or tough skinned.
I don't squash so easily. Looks like you need to scout out before you think you can take on a stranger.

I get banned from biker forums being too violent. Imagine that. A linux geek is too violent for bikers.
I still get a chuckle over that thought.

There was a most-peculiar movie that was built on the (baseball ...) premise that, "if you build it, they will come."

Ignoring, for the moment, the obvious fact that "every failed restaurant" repeatedly proves this proposition to be false (assuming the owners can actually cook ...), this homily does leverage one simple fact of human nature that is being demonstrated here:

If you pre-suppose that "this-or-that is 'True,' then you will find abundant 'evidence' that you are right. If you approach what you see 'with a pre-conceived notion,' then you will never find anything to suggest (to you ...) that anything else is possibly worth considering.

But also:

Contrary to popular opinion, neither God nor Science requires a 'public defender.'

In other words, "no one is gaining any celestial brownie-points, nor any kudos by the Ghost of Carl Sagan (RIP ...), by publicly beating his 'opponent' to a pulp."

(In fact, the Good Book sternly cautions against 'sinning against your brother,' even when you are 'correct.' It seems to specifically say that sometimes you should, consciously and purposely, abandon the battlefield, and yield the fight.)

Let's please try to "stick to the well-known rules of debate." If you are utterly convinced that your 'opponent' is going to Hell – or, not – then remember that you are under no particular obligation to save him. "At least, not here ..." (If you, please, understand my point ...)

Originally Posted by rokytnji I guess you have not checked out my about me page in my profile or know how big I am or tough skinned. I don't squash so easily. Looks like you need to scout out before you think you can take on a stranger. I get banned from biker forums being too violent. Imagine that. A linux geek is too violent for bikers. I still get a chuckle over that thought.

It seems you missed my point. By a mile.

There are many ways to apply the qualifier 'more special'. One way is by relative value.

In saying we are not 'more special' than cockroaches, you declared yourself equal value to a cockroach.

Thus, you granted us the right to "squash" you as we would a cockroach. Reductio ad absurdium.

The POINT is that it means nothing to state "A is more special than B" unless you specify in WHAT WAY.

OregonJim replied to my last post

You must be curious about where you're going. The vast majority of people on the planet believe in an afterlife. Not that it proves anything, but it does make one wonder if there's something to it.

I don't believe there is life after death, but I am open to the idea that, in some circumstances, absolute death is delayed. There have always been too many reports of 'ghost' sightings and experiences to be able to dismiss them out of hand. They may be the result of tricks of the viewer's mind, but I strongly believe that we (humanity as a whole) do not give sufficient credence to the power of the mind, or brain, and that we possess far greater mental powers than most of us realise, and that it is unconscious application of these powers that is responsible for the events claimed as miracles by religions. I also believe that the results of this power is enhanced by several brains working together. No doubt the God believers reading this are all saying that that's the power of prayer, which it can be and have the same effect. (I can see you jumping up and down with glee, OregonJim :-) What I'm trying to get across is that it still exists if there is no religious element .

Originally Posted by rtmistler Fine. Then I'm right.

@Ihatethings + + your text is almost as long as the this thread I couldn't get myself to read through it's entirety, oh something shiny and real... religious people reading it all the way trough must ignore most Q&As that prove fairy tails(.)
There's only 2 ways to look at anything: fact or theory. Knock-knock.

In saying cockroaches are 'superior' to us,

Calling bull on that statement. Show me where I said that.

You aint special. I am not special. Deal with that. It is your I am superior attitude that probably makes you think I said cockroaches are superior. When in fact. I said they have souls.
All life is precious. Except in your world I guess.

Down here we call that a, "sick puppy".

Originally Posted by Celtic Yokel I don't believe there is life after death, but I am open to the idea that, in some circumstances, absolute death is delayed. There have always been too many reports of 'ghost' sightings and experiences to be able to dismiss them out of hand.

The majority that we hear about, I believe, are hoaxes, but some are real, unexplained phenomena. The Bible tells us what they are - angels and demons.

Originally Posted by Celtic Yokel They may be the result of tricks of the viewer's mind, but I strongly believe that we (humanity as a whole) do not give sufficient credence to the power of the mind, or brain, and that we possess far greater mental powers than most of us realise, and that it is unconscious application of these powers that is responsible for the events claimed as miracles by religions.

That's an interesting theory. I agree that we can't access more than 10% of our brains. However, the Bible tells us that our bodies will be "translated" when we go to Heaven (or Hell). I believe that the other 90% of our brain may hold much more detail about our lives than our own "memory" can access. Sort of like off-line storage. When God activates it for us on Judgement Day, through the "translation" He tells us about, we'll be able to recall our past much more clearly than we can now, and judgement will be seen as just. Of course, that is just my opinion, as the Bible doesn't give details about how translation works.

Originally Posted by Celtic Yokel I also believe that the results of this power is enhanced by several brains working together. No doubt the God believers reading this are all saying that that's the power of prayer, which it can be and have the same effect. (I can see you jumping up and down with glee, OregonJim :-) What I'm trying to get across is that it still exists if there is no religious element .

No, I don't believe in a "collective mind power". As far as prayer goes, it is individuals speaking to God - sometimes there are many individuals with a common goal, or unity, but that is not the same as linking brain power together.

Did it take many minds working together to create the Space Shuttle? Sure. But these minds worked independently, sharing knowledge with each other. They didnt work collectively, the evidence being that the Space Shuttle would have exceeded the capacity of a single mind to comprehend.

Originally Posted by rokytnji Calling bull on that statement. Show me where I said that.

You said it right here:

http://www.linuxquestions.org/questi...ml#post5551928

Originally Posted by rokytnji I find it funny as all get out when some one thinks they are more special than a cockroach.

Granted, you used the words "more special" rather than "superior", but the idea is still the same. Nevertheless, I edited my post to reflect your exact words, if that helps any. So, if you're NOT "more special", then what gives you the right to be treated any differently than a cockroach? You still don't seem to get the point.

Originally Posted by rokytnji You aint special. I am not special. Deal with that. It is your I am superior attitude that probably makes you think I said cockroaches are superior. When in fact. I said they have souls. All life is precious. Except in your world I guess. Down here we call that a, "sick puppy".

If all life is precious, tell me - what did you have for dinner?

I never said I was superior to anybody. That's entirely in your own head. Because someone claims to know the truth about something, you PROJECT on them an air of superiority. If they ACTUALLY felt that way, they wouldn't be trying to SHARE the truth.

You are the one acting "superior", since you tell me to "just deal with" YOUR "truth". Pure hypocrisy, right here in black and white.

OregonJim post 6277 Did it take many minds working together to create the Space Shuttle? Sure. But these minds worked independently, sharing knowledge with each other. They didnt work collectively, the evidence being that the Space Shuttle would have exceeded the capacity of a single mind to comprehend.

The Space Shuttle was built by a group of people using their individual intelligences to create a number of specialised modules, which when they were combined resulted in the Shuttle, and you're quite right that a single mind would not have been able to comprehend the whole in its entirety.
But intelligence was not what I meant when I referred to the power of the mind, and the two have no correlation other than being products of the brain. It's difficult to describe what I mean, but I suppose the nearest I can get is causing events to happen by no obvious means, events that shouldn't be able to happen ie levitation and miracles.
I accept that your Religion, and the Bible, provide the answers to life's queries for you, but we're going to have to agree to disagree on that one.

I'm an Agnostic Atheist but I chose Atheist in the poll as that's the closest match.

Originally Posted by Celtic Yokel The Space Shuttle was built by a group of people using their individual intelligences to create a number of specialised modules, which when they were combined resulted in the Shuttle, and you're quite right that a single mind would not have been able to comprehend the whole in its entirety. But intelligence was not what I meant when I referred to the power of the mind, and the two have no correlation other than being products of the brain. It's difficult to describe what I mean, but I suppose the nearest I can get is causing events to happen by no obvious means, events that shouldn't be able to happen ie levitation and miracles. I accept that your Religion, and the Bible, provide the answers to life's queries for you, but we're going to have to agree to disagree on that one.

I think you missed my point. A single mind *can* comprehend the whole, if that single mind has access to the knowledge used to create the different parts. But if multiple minds were to concentrate their power together, they would be able to create something that transcends the ability of one mind to comprehend, regardless of knowledge. I don't think that happens.

Not that any of this is particularly practical, except to show, as you said, a difference in viewpoints.

Originally Posted by LinusStallman I'm an Agnostic Atheist but I chose Atheist in the poll as that's the closest match.

Can you explain what the term "agnostic atheist" means?

Originally Posted by OregonJim Can you explain what the term "agnostic atheist" means?

Hi Jim.

Certainly.

I believe there is no god(s) but there is no way for me to know for sure.

"Agnostic atheist" here too. Agnostic seems more scientific to me, tho I may just be giving them a bone?

I never said I was superior to anybody. That's entirely in your own head.

I call bull on that also. Other members here like me will agree on this. Otherwise. Why try talking us into seeing the world from your perspective.

If all life is precious, tell me - what did you have for dinner?

What perfect world do you live in? Just had chicken tacos. My wife cooks for me. I eat what she makes. Does that mean they are not precious? One lives in the world around them. You cannot change that with desk jockey sarcastic comments. No point was made with me on that comment.

Granted, you used the words "more special" rather than "superior", but the idea is still the same.

Only from your perspective. I said what I said. Down South here.
A man is defined by how good his word is.


So far you have danced around saying I said one thing but meant another thing. Something a insane person would say.