The Faith & Religion mega Thread

If asked, I simply reply Christian. Today, we are all to eager to pin a label on someone: Democtrat, Republican, Liberal, Conservative, Baptist, Jewish, Catholic, etc. There are many doctrines in the "Christian" church, but only one in the "TRUE Christian" church and that is THE HOLY BIBLE.

Now, you can prove anything in the Bible, if taken out of context. The thing is to read the whole chapter or whole book of the Bible, asking GOD to give you understanding as to what HE meant, not what someone thought 1,000 years ago. There are times I have re-read a passage over later by months or years and got a different meaning, what was pertinent for me that day forward.

If I'm pressed to know what I mean, I tell them my testimoney, then say for them to seek GOD for their own answers. I have a very wonderful, private, and personal walk with GOD and my Older Brother, JESUS. If you want that kind of relationship, you must pray and ask for it.

I'm not into grabbing folks by the collar, shaking them and asking them if they know "the LORD".....Which Lord? Lord Vader?
Lord of the Rings? Tracy Lord? OHH, JESUS, the CHRIST, well why didn't you ask in the first place. I don't go to churches that preach HELLFIRE & BRIMSTONE, either. GOD is a GOD of LOVE, like a "Father", who only wants the best for HIS kids.

It's time preacher's quit trying to "scare" the HELL out of you and teach you how to behave to one another getting GOD'S approval.

Well, I've had my say and it was too much for me to put out.

GOD BLESS,
Warmest Regards,
"Buck"/KA5LQJ

This all being the case then allow me a question I honestly don't have an answer for. I'm Jewish by faith, my learnings also include Tao, Zen, Bhuddism and Shinto among others. I've attended Christian services from Catholic church and Angelican(SP)Christmas to tent meetings and granges. Even read a bit of the Quran, enough to know that Islam is not what westerners think it is.

Of all of these only a few sects (don'tknow what else to call them) proselytize the shit out of themselves and their particular brand of religion so that when they walk up the driveway I want to shoot them. "Have you been saved?" they ask. "Do you have 30 seconds to talk about God?" To which I might reply, "Can you beat the dogs to the gate?" Yet there is the occasion I feel like asking a question or two. For example, they ask the usual JW rhetoric? and I respond with did you turn your back on Hashem at Sinai, the Hebrew name for he who needs no name (from the Torah or Talmud I forget which). What I get back is a puzzled look. Then a quote or something Jesus said, maybe the 10 Commandments not knowing they preceded Christianity by three thousand years. Their responses are obviously from the New Testament, well read and well rehearsed; but I get the feeling they don't have a clue as to what they are talking about. They are not answering my questions so why do they do it? Why can't they take the hint? If you want to talk about it don't just parrot whatever bible your reading. Answer the question. If I want you to leave; leave. Don't make me threaten you with the dogs or worse. It's too pat, too well rehearsed, no feeling to it. It seems to me that those walking up to my door to are trying to sell me their god. Not one God, but their God. Not a unity.

Shinto shows us there is room for more than one god. They believe in many gods, as well and that each and every living creature good or bad is some sort of god manifested. (I hope I remember that correctly). A tree, grass, insects animals and people. It also means spirits, souls, faeries and demons as well. That's why many Shinto celebrate Christmas and Valentines Day without being Christians because there is room since all of it is one in the same. Tao teaches us to understand and accept. In the end that means that it doesn't matter what you are if you believe.

If you believe.

A strong statement because it is all encompassing. It means if you truly believe in God you should also believe in everything else. Science, demons, satan, faeries and magic. The list goes of for several hundred pages. This being the case WhyTF do you walk up to me on Saturdays (my sabbath) and disturb it trying to sell me your version of God.

They're not selling God you know? or faith. They're selling religion.

I believe.

And now for something completely different. Find out where you will end up in hell!

http://www.4degreez.com/misc/dante-inferno-test.mv

Originally Posted by jay73 And now for something completely different. Find out where you will end up in hell!

On receiving the news that brianL was soon to be arriving in Hell, Satan sent this reply to God:
"Don't you think I'm being punished enough already?"

Originally Posted by desertranger Even read a bit of the Quran, enough to know that Islam is not what westerners think it is.

I assume that you mean westerners think Islam is a religion of violence? But I have to ask, what is a religion except that which is practiced by its adherents? The Islam of Al Quaeda and the Taliban is a religion of violence, even if Islam as practiced by numerous other people is not. There is no core to religion that one can use to say it is this or that, because religion is not based on anything objective. Who can be the final arbiter of meaning for a religious text?

Shinto shows us there is room for more than one god.

I think "asserts without evidence" is more accurate than "shows us".

Tao teaches us to understand and accept. In the end that means that it doesn't matter what you are if you believe.

A strange reading of the Tao. "It doesn't matter what you are if you believe" is an awful lesson to take. Why is "belief" a good thing, specifically belief without evidence, ie, faith? What exactly do we find laudable in being a man or women of faith?

A strong statement because it is all encompassing. It means if you truly believe in God you should also believe in everything else. Science, demons, satan, faeries and magic. The list goes of for several hundred pages.

The difference being that science gives us grounds to justify our beliefs. As Steven Pinker wrote

I see science as not just cures for diseases and better gadgets but an ideal for how to think about the most important issues facing us as humans– in particular, the ideal that we should seek truth through reason and evidence and not through superstition, dogma, and personal revelation....the idea that nature contains private coded messages from a supernatural being to an individual person is the antithesis of the scientific (indeed, rational) mindset. It is primitive, shamanistic, superstitious. The point of the scientific revolution was to do away with such animistic thinking.

I believe.

I question.

Originally Posted by reed9 Why is "belief" a good thing, specifically belief without evidence, ie, faith?

Because belief - of any kind - is empowering.

Originally Posted by reed9 I see science as not just cures for diseases and better gadgets but an ideal for how to think about the most important issues facing us as humans

"If all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail". Logic, reasoning and evidence are good, but relying only on them will reduce you to machine. Emotional, irrational and unreasonable part is what makes people go forward. You need balanced approach.

Originally Posted by SigTerm Because belief - of any kind - is empowering.

Really? So, believing that prayer will heal your child is empowering? We cannot address problems in the world through wishful thinking. The truth, as best as we can figure it out, is empowering.

"If all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail". Logic, reasoning and evidence are good, but relying only on them will reduce you to machine. Emotional, irrational and unreasonable part is what makes people go forward. You need balanced approach.

Relying on them only for what? I'm talking about claims of what is true, I'm talking about knowledge. Not about meaning and values, which are better addressed through philosophy than science. But reason and logic certainly play a pivotal role there as well. Clearly, you can't even attempt to justify your position without resorting to using reasoned, logical arguments, which is always a bit of a conundrum for those who want to defend irrationalism. It's like moral relativists criticizing moral objectivists - they must take an, ahem, objective stance that objectivism is wrong.

Originally Posted by SigTerm Because belief - of any kind - is empowering.

... so is drinking alcohol (sometimes with disastrous consequences)

@reed9

I think what SigTerm is trying to get at (correct me if I'm wrong) is that you shouldn't become a cold, insensitive robot merely for the sake of being "correct" all the time, i.e. it's not about ignoring logic and reason, it's about having feelings.

(/me goes off and hides elsewhere while this post gets sacked)

Originally Posted by reed9 Really? So, believing that prayer will heal your child is empowering?

You took one isolated example, significantly overestimated its importance and are trying to use it as argument against all religion. It is a logical error (hasty generalization?) that is not very different from arguments some people tried to use in order to support bible. There's at least 1 billion believers, and if religion killed one person, it is less harmful than cars. To blame religion, you need way more dead people.

If you want to disprove religion, you should try better arguments. As far as I know, for every religious crime there's a single person who's been responsible. Besides, soviets were atheistic, and did a few things you could blame onto atheism if you wanted.

Originally Posted by reed9 We cannot address problems in the world through wishful thinking.

You really shouldn't speak for others.

Originally Posted by reed9 The truth, as best as we can figure it out, is empowering.

The truth is merely a knowledge, and knowledge can be useless.

Originally Posted by reed9 Relying on them only for what?

For everything. It is a mistake to rely only on logic or only on faith. You need both of them.

Originally Posted by reed9 Clearly, you can't even attempt to justify your position

Why do you need to "justify" your position?

Originally Posted by MrCode @reed9 I think what SigTerm is trying to get at (correct me if I'm wrong) is that you shouldn't become a cold, insensitive robot merely for the sake of being "correct" all the time, i.e. it's not about ignoring logic and reason, it's about having feelings.

Yep, that's mostly right. Anybody who ever wrote a program, knows what "logical thinking" is. Computer is pure logic, however computer is also a total idiot. You need irrational and non-logical element in order to be human.

Originally Posted by MrCode @reed9 I think what SigTerm is trying to get at (correct me if I'm wrong) is that you shouldn't become a cold, insensitive robot merely for the sake of being "correct" all the time, i.e. it's not about ignoring logic and reason, it's about having feelings.

That's more or less what I've been trying to tell you, when replying to your "we are no different to computers" comments in other posts.

Originally Posted by MrCode (/me goes off and hides elsewhere while this post gets sacked)

No need to hide when your talking sense.

Originally Posted by kostya I think quoting sources provided by the haters of JW is hardly a reliable source of information.

You need to read that again, because he referenced two independent, non-biased sources to support his argument.

I'm not even going to bother with your court cases, because scientific facts are not established in court.

"Logic is like a bunch of flowers that smell bad" - Commander Spock.

You don't need to justify anything to anyone ever. I never do. I'm constantly being challenge, asked for justification or proof. It's happened here. Well as I said I don't do challenges and I don't take tests; wanna show buy a ticket. I don't have to prove myself to anyone for anything. If I say I canlioght a fire in under 10 secs with no matched. Take it to the bank I can do it. Wanna see it done, put money on the table. It's an attitude that would be better used by others because too many people spend way too much time trying to prove and justify who they are to others.

We need less pure logic and more fuzzy logic.

Originally Posted by kostya Not you established, but the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops. And BTW, thank you so much for the link! As reed9 said , WOW, just WOW. And that Catholic Bishops! Yea, they go even this far:On a second thought, only logical. ...If you remember how they tortured and persecuted the readers of the Bible, how they didn't allow its translation into spoken languages; if you remember how EASY it was for Luther to defeat them utterly in a dispute because none of them knew the Bible, and Luther happened to take interest in it... If you recall how much evil they have done in the name of Jesus, so that many people even hate it because of what Cath. Church has done. Because, whether you believe in Jesus or not, you can't fail to see how "little" they resemble of Jesus' characteristics. BTW, here are a couple of prophecies saying about it: Revelation 17:3,6; 2 Thessalonians 2:3,4. You can see the Bible has long been in the way and now they're but very happy to present it as a questionable document of unknown origin. AND THANK YOU FOR THE LINK! To think they would be that bold. My source is a more wholesome spiritual food :

I see that, faced with facts, you resort to ad hominem. How boring.

The Catholic Church has a vested interest in promoting the idea that the Gospels were first-person accounts, because it lends them more authority, which in turn lends the Church more authority. They no longer make that claim for the simple fact that the evidence does not support that claim.

The bolded sentence is the most bizarre, unfounded claim I've ever read. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English...s_of_the_Bible

Originally Posted by desertranger You don't need to justify anything to anyone ever. I never do.

Now that's reasonable. The greatest thing an adult may learn (IMO) is that you don't have to explain anything to anybody, don't have to agree with other people, and that you don't have to make them agree with you or understand you.