The Faith & Religion mega Thread

Originally Posted by dugan Have you noticed that "aerial bombing good: suicide bombing: bad" is a Western double standard?

Why is this a double standard? The purpose of war is not to die for your country it's to make the other poor guy die for his.

Originally Posted by moxieman99 Would you likewise accept that the Norway wacko killed for Christian reasons?

No, he was a right-wing extremist, politically motivated.

Originally Posted by PrinceSharma Not every Muslim is in the favor of this shit at least to whom I know, been and grown up with.

I'm sure they aren't all in favour, but those who commit the atrocities seem to find inspiration and justification for their actions in the Quran.

Originally Posted by dugan Have you noticed that "aerial bombing good: suicide bombing: bad" is a Western double standard?

Aerial bombing aimed against civilians is as bad as indiscriminate suicide bombing, definitely.

Originally Posted by jay73 I'd like to see some support of that claim.

That's just my opinion, there will be no support.

Originally Posted by ShaanAli The Noble Quran asserts explicitly that every human being comes to Allah as a slave, including all of His Messengers.

Obviously, this won't change my opinion.

Originally Posted by ShaanAli Being the slave of Allah is not at all the same as being the slave of another human being.

Doesn't matter. If there's a "Master", it should be overthrown.

Originally Posted by ShaanAli This force is not extortion. Extortion is for one own purpose. This force is for humanity.

Sorry, charity should be provided by your own will. If there's a "force", it is not a charity.

Originally Posted by jay73 How about the idea that some people are genetically disposed towards "evil" and religion is just one of many justifications?

I don't think that concept of "evil" is useful (it is "black and white thinking", IMO). "Evil" assumes some kind of universal "harm", while (AFAIK) world doesn't work this way.

Originally Posted by ShaanAli In a war if any opponent surrenders what max today any country army will do, will leave him there to die.

Aren't there Geneva Conventions?

Originally Posted by PrinceSharma Took me a good time to turn an agnostic from a teenage theist.

What the hell are you talking about? I was an agnostic to begin with and I'm not a teenager.

Originally Posted by dugan Have you noticed that "aerial bombing good: suicide bombing: bad" is a Western double standard?

Aerial bombing normally doesn't sacrifice the pilot.

Originally Posted by brianL Wrong. It's religious, they're doing it for the sake of Islam, they make that quite plain in the videos they release before committing their atrocities.

No offense but the politicians that responded to 911 claimed to do so in the name of God. It was quite clear in the videos they released. And I speak English, so there was nothing lost in the translation. Whats good for the goose is good for the gander I guess.

Originally Posted by brianL I'm sure they aren't all in favour, but those who commit the atrocities seem to find inspiration and justification for their actions in the Quran.

Yes, that's what I mentioned, Islam fails there, leaving no proper justification for the deeds.

Originally Posted by SigTerm What the hell are you talking about? I was an agnostic to begin with and I'm not a teenager.

I'm not sure you understood what I meant.
I'm not a a teenage either, but as a teenage I was a theist for no reason, now I'm not. It really took good time to understand that not everything can be explained or justified by holy books.

Originally Posted by PrinceSharma I'm not sure you understood what I meant.

My mistake, but your original statement was a bit ambiguous.

Originally Posted by PrinceSharma Yes, that's what I mentioned, Islam fails there, leaving no proper justification for the deeds.

You can not blame religion if its followers are not following that. In Islam there is no room for those uncivilized acts.

Originally Posted by linuxpokernut No offense but the politicians that responded to 911 claimed to do so in the name of God. It was quite clear in the videos they released. And I speak English, so there was nothing lost in the translation. Whats good for the goose is good for the gander I guess.

Youtube is full of such researches which prove 9-11 was inside job. There were explosives planted in both buildings, pentagon was not hit by plane, buildings were insured few months back against terror attacks, finding the hackers passport intact etc.... American govt has no response over them.

Originally Posted by SigTerm Sorry, charity should be provided by your own will. If there's a "force", it is not a charity.

No one has that "will" my dear friend. If that "will" had present, there would be no poor on this earth.
Same way Govt takes tax with force, you call it extortion or whatever.

Aren't there Geneva Conventions?

Yeah, here is Geneva convention followers:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu_Ghr...prisoner_abuse

Originally Posted by jay73 Jerry Coyne - Why Evolution is True. That's Dawkins minus the bullshit.

What bullshit are you referring to? His atheism? Coyne is every bit as much a hard line atheist as Dawkins, possibly more so. Check out his blog.

Originally Posted by ShaanAli You can not blame religion if its followers are not following that. In Islam there is no room for those uncivilized acts.

How can you separate a religion from a significant portion of its followers? This is essentially a no true scotsman fallacy. There is no empirical base upon which to judge religious claims, so someone interpreting the Koran as justifying murder is no more wrong or right than someone who interprets it to prohibit murder. Just as in Christianity, those who interpret the Bible to be against homosexuality are no less "right" than more liberal Christians who interpret it otherwise. There is no way to successively get closer to any sort of religious truth. Religious mores change because outside opinion changes and people re-interpret their traditions. At one point burning witches was acceptable in Christianity, at one point slavery was acceptable. The Bible didn't change, the world did. Same for Islam. It could be that Islam will go through it's own Enlightenment period and actually become largely a tolerant, peaceful religion. It seems to me that the de-fanging of religion is what leads to it becoming more tolerant and peaceful. Decoupling religion from politics is key, and overall reducing its sphere of influence and power in a culture.

Originally Posted by reed9 How can you separate a religion from a significant portion of its followers? This is essentially a no true scotsman fallacy. There is no empirical base upon which to judge religious claims, so someone interpreting the Koran as justifying murder is no more wrong or right than someone who interprets it to prohibit murder. Just as in Christianity, those who interpret the Bible to be against homosexuality are no less "right" than more liberal Christians who interpret it otherwise. There is no way to successively get closer to any sort of religious truth. Religious mores change because outside opinion changes and people re-interpret their traditions. At one point burning witches was acceptable in Christianity, at one point slavery was acceptable. The Bible didn't change, the world did. Same for Islam. It could be that Islam will go through it's own Enlightenment period and actually become largely a tolerant, peaceful religion. It seems to me that the de-fanging of religion is what leads to it becoming more tolerant and peaceful. Decoupling religion from politics is key, and overall reducing its sphere of influence and power in a culture.

I dont know much about Christianity and Bible, so I cant quote with reference to that, but Quran is revealed with intention that its rules will be applicable till end of this earth. When Quran says hurting yourself is not allowed. It says killing an innocent is not allowed. It was applicable 1500 years back, its very much applicable today also. As far as killing innocent & homosexuality is concern, its forbidden in Quran in very clear words. There is no way person can interpret in different ways and misuse that.
Politics has become so corrupted, there is no peace on earth. And we common people dont know whats happening behind.

Originally Posted by ShaanAli As far as killing innocent & homosexuality is concern, its forbidden in Quran in very clear words. There is no way person can interpret in different ways and misuse that.

The evidence says you couldn't possibly be more wrong.

All you have to do is play games with the definition of "innocent." Muslim clerics have been doing it for centuries.

Also, there's the handy label "infidel," and what the Koran says about them.

Originally Posted by dugan Have you noticed that "aerial bombing good: suicide bombing: bad" is a Western double standard?

Instead of looking at the red herring of delivery mechanism, let's look at purpose and result, so change "aerial bombing" to "bombing of military targets" and "suicide bombing" to "bombing of random civilians," because that's what these two strategies are really accomplishing. Then look to see if there's still a double standard.