It would help if Open Office would advertise. They should let people know that there is another office program cheeper and better than microsoft's office. Most people don't care or know about open office. This might help Linux.

In which case we would be comparing their nutritional and health benefits!

I don't see how this would help GNU/Linux, OpenOffice runs natively on the winblows platform anyway. I have noticed an increase in magazines giving away open source software to their readers. As micro$hite continues to clamp down on illegal copies of its software being used, that will force users to seek alternatives...

Although it's a slow progress, I would prefer any spare funds be used to further develop open source applications, rather than line the pocket(s) of the advertising agencies.

Plus people like my brother that brought a preinstalled puter and are trying to update their stuff without the original CD. We have not been able to upgrade M$ Word since there never was a original CD. I installed OOo for him and said here you go, wish you had Linux for the rest too. LOL

I'm glad I never bought into the M$ crap.

Ah, the win vs linux thread, no linux forum without those

Well, first and foremost I think both target different segments of users,
where some aims though overlap each other (*ubuntu --> regular no-idea-guy user, Windows --> stable / secure servers (lulz) )

I personally use both and won't give up sooner or later using both.

As I'm an avid gamer, there's no way past Windows. Wine cannot work yet with directx 10, plus video setups still can be a hassle with Linux.

The advantage with Windows for the regular home user is its "user friendlyness". However usually user friendlyness excludes functionality.
Nonetheless, in most cases pop in CD/DVD, install, done.
On the other hand though, if you're not a standard home user (i.e. not a person who just wants to browse/mail/type a letter etc.), it can get quite annoying and restrictive.

Advantages for Linux are, I assume, well known in this forum here

As for the advertising:
What would you want to advertise?

M$ is a corporation with a few certain products, which they can easily spend budget money on for advertising.

Linux? Who's going to advertise there?
You have Novell, Red Hat, who else of the commercial ones, plus Ubuntu backed by canonical?
Then those aren't as well 100% identically, obviously, so you will have
Linux distro 1 advert
Linux distro 2 advert
Linux distro n advert

This could go on and on, and it won't really help, but add to the confusion.

Advertising for software packages like firefox and OOo isn't going to help much either, in forms of bringing folks to Linux, as they're freely available in native forms for Windows as well.

In the end my main question usually is though, why does Linux 'need' to be OS #1, why does it need to be enforced to be something which it isn't?

1- i actually like this sticky eventhough it is more inciteful than insightful, there are at least a few useful posts in here.

2- more like "user accustomed-to-ness"

3- i remember ibm had a few commercials for "this boy named linux" (did they ever come out with a distibution ?)
i think it was supposed to be an alternative os for their s/390 or xseries mainframes.
(my company lan blocks this link but judging by the google description it mite be related: http://www.metafilter.com/28153/IBM-...f-new-Linux-ad )
i agree that if it is not on tv then it would be hard for joe-six-pack to recognize it and want to use it (at least in the us)

4- the only benefit for me is that the more popular it is the greater possibility my lexmark printer would work.

No. Normally, after that you'll have working system, but without sound, with non-functional onboard ethernet card, without video codecs, without 3d acceleration, without pdf support and with very small amount of useful software.

Yep, I remember installing Mandrake and being able to select all the software I wanted installed and then rebooting. Basically, one reboot and you were ready to get some things done. You just have to select your themes and language on your first login and you are done.

Windoze is nowhere near that easy. After a half dozen reboots while installing the OS, you are still left with installing your software, getting your networks working and a lot of other stuff. Don't forget, got to buy and install that anti-virus and anti-spyware software too. Also need to check the settings on your firewall if you don't want to be attacked pretty quickly. If you are real smart, download and install the OS updates in a hurry. I saw on Screensavers one time where they could not get the network up and install the updates before they were attacked.

Yep, windoze is pretty good stuff. Every time I write one of these things, I remember why I have never had windoze on any of my rigs. I would use the OLD Mandrake 9.1 before I would use windoze.

It is,it was and it will be. Linux is one of the few OS-es which are not enforced to be anything.

should've made it more clear in the initial post, whops...
I meant programs / games etc. after you've already done all the initial OS installation...

basically "pop in far cry 2, install, play"

#1 in terms of being on end user's desktop as main OS.
I know that Linux is not enforced, but from the looks of it what some want, is that linux should be enforced to be a Windows replacement.
That's what I am questioning.

.. experience horrible bug later and wait for hot fix in drivers. Sure.
You forgot about dark side of windows gaming: copy-protection (Securom is not the problem, if you don't mind "3 installations limit". But something like "starforce" will chew your game CD and destroy your system with bluescreens), driver bugs, performance issues, unfinished products released to the public as a final release, and so on.

But, as far as I know, commercial linux games work in same way - install and play, because they frequently bypass system package management system entirely.
Also, for your information, on debian-based systems installation of software is done by typing in one command which means "install that sofware". The only thing you'll need is internet connection - normally you don't even have to walk through "download/unpack/install" phase, you just ask for software, and system installs it. In my opinion, nothing beats that (although debian-based systems have their own problems and they are not my favorite).

I'd recommend you to look at avilable desktops, KDE in particular.

I don't see linux in general being enforced as a windows replacement. There are articles like this one that are always shown to newbies on every occasion. Newbies can have their own illusions, but that's another story.

It could be and it should be if you want to use the computer the way it should be used.
Here you got a point,but you should be looking at the majority.

Linux or UNIX is not always less friendly then M$. I mean, you don't HAVE to restrict yourself to Gentoo or Debian, do you? Simply Mepis is friendly. So is SuSE and Mandriva. PC BSD is quite friendly if you are a UNIX purest. Best of all, it has Free BSD under its user friendly desktop. If you have an older machine, Mandrake 10.x is quite friendly if a little dated. Installing a RPM file isn't all that different then an EXE file under M$.

The command line and terminals are far better then DOS. Basically, Linux isn't standardized like M$ is + advertising is virtually non-existent with the exception of a few ads that SuSE ran a while ago.

Linux actually has more user friendly advantages then M$. It is safer to view "exotic" content or to torrent because viruses basically don't exist in the wild for Linux. This saves $$ for security software. Extras like email clients, editors and even multimedia file converters are either free if you look for them or built in. Compare the cost of M$ digital image pro xx, M$ Word, Outlook to Open Office, GIMP and the Evolution email client or thunderbird.

I feel that a newbie who never touched a computer before would have an easier time and spend less money with Linux then Windows.

that is not a (direct) problem of M$ Windows though, but of the respective creator of the software.

there are commercial linux games? didn't know that. never looked for those ^^
though can't run those games most likely anyway on command line

oh, I know. I couldn't live with out apt-get I reckon.
A typical home user might find it a little long winded though
(but then, there are GUI options for this)

in the times when I have a monitor connected to my box, I use KDE3.

It is not enforced, I know. but many often advocate it to replace any and all OSes out there. That's what I'm questioning


dosbox is more of a pain line than command line imo

if users are stupid enough to execute every and any .exe/.com/.bat file they find, then they'll probably also screw around on a linux box too much I'd guess.

Yeah I know I use all of those mentioned on my windows box (well, not evolution, but thunderbird). None of them on my linux box though usually, don't have a monitor there, and don't really need more than bash.

I agree with you on this, especially with distros geared towards simple use, such as the *buntu variants and those you mentioned.

The main problem though is (well, can only say for Germany, and partially for UK from what I hear, but guess in other places it might be similar), that schools enforce the use of M$ software. This leads that young children already get 'trained' from early on to use these certain programs, both @ school and therefore @ home too.

There've been many occasions where teachers / schools simply refused to acknowledge a pupil's enquiry to do certain work with other software, often also because of, in the end, lame excuses of the teachers such as "I'm used to this program, so we will do this program." (witnessed by a good friend of mine), but also that the school curriculum for IT is usually geared towards M$ software in the first place.

Get Linux in there, and the problem should be solved in many cases.

Yes, there are. Not many of them, but they exists.
Doom 3, Quake 4, Quake Wars, Penumbra, World of Goo, Unreal Tournament 2003/2004 (They didn't port UT3, though, probably because of PhysX), Darwinia, Defcon, Uplink, Neverwinter Nights, Serious Sam 2, X2, Prey, etc. And also some (semi-)commercial MMORPGs. "Smaller" developers port their games to Linux more frequently.