LinuxQuestions.org
Latest LQ Deal: Latest LQ Deals
Go Back   LinuxQuestions.org > Forums > Non-*NIX Forums > General
User Name
Password
General This forum is for non-technical general discussion which can include both Linux and non-Linux topics. Have fun!

Notices


Reply
  Search this Thread
Old 06-08-2016, 10:42 PM   #1
cousinlucky
Member
 
Registered: Nov 2005
Location: Staten Island N.Y.
Distribution: Antix 16 and PCLinuxOS Mate
Posts: 303

Rep: Reputation: 515Reputation: 515Reputation: 515Reputation: 515Reputation: 515Reputation: 515
The 9/11 Reader!!


Some LQ members might be interested in this article and book!!
http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-911...ttacks/5303012
 
Old 06-09-2016, 06:27 AM   #2
sundialsvcs
LQ Guru
 
Registered: Feb 2004
Location: SE Tennessee, USA
Distribution: Gentoo, LFS
Posts: 9,078
Blog Entries: 4

Rep: Reputation: 3187Reputation: 3187Reputation: 3187Reputation: 3187Reputation: 3187Reputation: 3187Reputation: 3187Reputation: 3187Reputation: 3187Reputation: 3187Reputation: 3187
Search for "demolition fail" on YouTube and you can see how spectacularly wrong an attempt to blow a building down can be. There are very few companies on Planet Earth who could have successfully demolitioned both of the tallest buildings in New York ... and a third building, six hours later, which contained the "anti-terrorism command center" (improbably, on the middle floors of a skyscraper).

Let alone, do it right under everybody's nose. It took weeks to plant all the charges, while people were of course milling all around them, and explosives of the type needed to do this job, once again, "are not easily obtained."

And then, to top it all off, to stick two airplanes through the towers ... perhaps as a symbolic gesture, perhaps as a cover, perhaps just as a distraction.

When the buildings blew, they dropped into their own footprint. All three of them did. Especially in the case of the first two, that takes incredible technical skill and experience.

Hardly the stuff of desert bedouins.

It is not only difficult to imagine the level of psychopath who would contemplate such an act of war, let alone (help to) carry it out. I don't know what possesses a man to rig a building with bombs, passing people in the elevators every day, knowing that most of those people were going to die and that you would be among the ones who killed them.

It is also difficult to imagine the people who would create ... in advance ... the PATRIOT Act. (It takes time to write that many pages!) And who would keep it. There are people in ruling positions within this country who are, themselves, quite psychopathic ... and drunk with "absolute power."

And there are not (yet) enough people who are determined (enough) to p-e-a-c-e-a-b-l-y(!) change things. When that determination finally manifests, the change will be for the good, will be quite dramatic, and not one shot will be fired. The world community will ask, "where the hell have you been for the past seventy years?"

The Good Book said it so perfectly when it observed: "The love of Money is the root of all evil."

Last edited by sundialsvcs; 06-09-2016 at 06:29 AM.
 
Old 06-09-2016, 08:03 AM   #3
enorbet
Senior Member
 
Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Virginia
Distribution: Slackware = Main OpSys
Posts: 3,496

Rep: Reputation: 3391Reputation: 3391Reputation: 3391Reputation: 3391Reputation: 3391Reputation: 3391Reputation: 3391Reputation: 3391Reputation: 3391Reputation: 3391Reputation: 3391
I have deep problems with this conspiracy theory. It's impossible to conclude that it absolutely didn't happen that way but it seems terribly unlikely when one considers that actual conspiracies on a scale many orders of magnitude less - fewer required people, shorter exposure times, and not to mention at a known high profile target where attempts had been made prior. The skill required to purposefully accomplish such a "blow" is beyond amazing. At no time, in no place has a building of anywhere near this size been imploded on purpose. Contractors asked had no idea even how to go about figuring such a massive blow, is what I've read.

To me it is far simpler to imagine desert bedouins who just wanted to strike back and who never expected a collapse. For them it was just a massive "frosting on the cake". I fully agree that most governments employ some pyschopaths or perhaps more accurately governments are employed by psychopaths - literally insatiably greedy people who view "peasants" solely as a means to an end,,, their ends. It is difficult to imagine such people engaging in such immensely risky behavior given the record of large conspiracies - most are revealed before The Day and this was true even before rapid communication and deep, common surveillance.

Last edited by enorbet; 06-09-2016 at 06:53 PM.
 
Old 06-09-2016, 08:32 AM   #4
rtmistler
Moderator
 
Registered: Mar 2011
Location: USA
Distribution: MINT Debian, Angstrom, SUSE, Ubuntu, Debian
Posts: 9,256
Blog Entries: 13

Rep: Reputation: 4348Reputation: 4348Reputation: 4348Reputation: 4348Reputation: 4348Reputation: 4348Reputation: 4348Reputation: 4348Reputation: 4348Reputation: 4348Reputation: 4348
Like many, I lived through this event. A person, or a very large piece of those buildings breaks off ... it falls straight down. The buildings were damaged up high because they were the highest buildings, the planes obviously could best hit them higher and not at the base. The damage was very severe, fire and other factors weakened the structure and the upper portions collapsed. That starts going straight down. If the bottom were sufficiently sturdy enough to withstand those forces, then eventually the upper portions collapsing would hit a stopping point and then sheer off, leaving a base. Instead, the lower parts were not strong enough and they similarly collapsed.

That's what I saw.

I've seen films of buildings being demolished. First, you see a ton of charges and also you see those charges near the base, so that it appears, probably correctly so, that the base was wiped out, the whole building almost jumps up a few feet and then falls downward.

That's what I believe I see when I see demo videos.

The World Trade Centers came down, from the top, and the top floors fell downward and brought the rest of the structure down.

Those who feel there are these dastardly conspiracies which have gone on, or do go on. Why not go somewhere, where you believe this conspiracies do not exist. Maybe you can accuse me of being ignorant, however I'm not walking around parroting about coverups. I have better, more pleasant and fun, things to do with my time.

Didn't read the link. Don't need to read it to know what it says.
 
Old 06-09-2016, 09:58 AM   #5
alberich
Member
 
Registered: Apr 2016
Location: Bavaria
Distribution: Slackware
Posts: 140

Rep: Reputation: Disabled
Not again 9/11. That pushed up mass media event. That unspeakable piece of infotainment.

No, it's not an interesting or important event in recent history. The U.S. takes itself to seriously.

Do you know how you you identify a villain state?

When 3.000 people are murdered, he will have 1.000.000 killed in retaliation. Even the Nazis killed "only" 100 civilians for one soldier killed in ambush by partisans in Russia.

150.000 people die each day. Many of which under probably equally, maybe more regrettably circumstances than those unfortunate 3.000.

Get over it.
 
Old 06-09-2016, 05:44 PM   #6
sundialsvcs
LQ Guru
 
Registered: Feb 2004
Location: SE Tennessee, USA
Distribution: Gentoo, LFS
Posts: 9,078
Blog Entries: 4

Rep: Reputation: 3187Reputation: 3187Reputation: 3187Reputation: 3187Reputation: 3187Reputation: 3187Reputation: 3187Reputation: 3187Reputation: 3187Reputation: 3187Reputation: 3187
One problem with "it just fell down on its own accord" is that it "fell down on its own accord" in eight seconds flat. The top of one tower started to tilt sideways when all of the sudden there was nothing to block its fall. The entire integrity of the structure, top to bottom, instantaneously ceased to exist.

Like I said earlier, this was an extremely sophisticated demolition job, such that very few companies in the world would know how to do. They could not use "conventional" explosives. And they did it three times that day.

I'm sure that the entire plan was that, once an act of war terrorism had occurred on New York soil, the powers-that-be would rush to their "command center." When that center was presumed full, the entire building that contained it would also be brought down, killing everyone. As it happened ... and you can speculate why this part of the plan didn't happen ... they did not rush to this supposedly secure enclave.

Believe me, I would infinitely prefer all of this to be the work of two hijacked airplanes. That would be a relatively straightforward attack scenario. But this scenario implies a total and complete security failure ... for a very, very long period of time.

I expect that what happened was that a cover-story was put out and the details were immediately ##CLASSIFIED##. And, in this case, I rather think that there were compelling reasons to do just that. An attack with this game-plan ... and, very successfully executed ... "changes the entire game of what 'national security' means." It is quite obvious that government officials do not want "whoever did this" to have any more definite information than they already do about what was known and what wasn't; what was done and what wasn't. And, I think that was a very prudent thing to do. "Don't ask. Don't tell."

Last edited by sundialsvcs; 06-09-2016 at 05:47 PM.
 
Old 06-09-2016, 07:29 PM   #7
enorbet
Senior Member
 
Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Virginia
Distribution: Slackware = Main OpSys
Posts: 3,496

Rep: Reputation: 3391Reputation: 3391Reputation: 3391Reputation: 3391Reputation: 3391Reputation: 3391Reputation: 3391Reputation: 3391Reputation: 3391Reputation: 3391Reputation: 3391
@alberich - While I agree that we are no exception to the fact that every Nation may take itself too seriously and I am very concerned about the fact that our (US) Military budget did not drop off at all after The Cold War ended (threat of imminent and devastating war) which seems to imply many of our leaders enjoy such immense power and can't let it go and therefore feel compelled to use it to justify it's existence. Given the choice between a US that sees itself as Global Police and isolationist Monroe Doctrine, I think I'd prefer the latter.

That said I find some of your comments quite callous [ "That pushed up mass media event. That unspeakable piece of infotainment."] and not only betray a lack of understanding of how much more powerful local events are than those at a distance, but further may well betray an all too common disgust with the US that often extends to people not in charge, common citizens. We are an easy target in that.

This seems rather odd since I am aware that you are subject to similar "black washing" and still suffer greatly the wounds of being the progeny of citizens that, as some would say, "allowed Adolf to come to power". Few even recognize that was made all but inevitable by the punishing Treaty of Versailles, and that responsibility is actually shared. It is my understanding the shame and fear runs so deep that it is unlawful to even posses Mein Kampf (which I read cover-to-cover as important a piece of literature as Machiavelli) in your country. A vindictive attitude is troubling wherever it occurs and I'm sorry that you and your local countrymen are subjected to such callous disregard and disrespect because I don't share that view. It could/can happen anywhere and may well again.

The point is that if we allow our hurts to give us license to hurt others, it will never end. This is not bound simply by national borders but by idealogy. Bosnia may be one example but consider that in many ways The Crusades are still being fought today. IMHO the only alternative to mutual respect and compassion ultimately is extermination if conflict is to ever even reduce let alone stop altogether. Individually we will be judged by which path we choose. It might be worthwhile to consider from time to time which path you are on.

Last edited by enorbet; 06-09-2016 at 07:31 PM.
 
Old 06-09-2016, 07:34 PM   #8
dugan
LQ Guru
 
Registered: Nov 2003
Location: Canada
Distribution: distro hopper
Posts: 9,985

Rep: Reputation: 4568Reputation: 4568Reputation: 4568Reputation: 4568Reputation: 4568Reputation: 4568Reputation: 4568Reputation: 4568Reputation: 4568Reputation: 4568Reputation: 4568
Sundialsvcs believes that the hijackers aimed for the exact floors where the explosives were planted (by actors that he doesn't specify, at times that he doesn't specify). And that they managed to hit those exact floors with their jumbo jets. And that the explosives planted on those floors survived both the impact (of jumbo jets crashing into them) and the fire. And that those "explosives" (I think we've earned quotes now) were set off (somehow, by someone) only after the fires on those floors had burned for over an hour. He has invested a lot of time over the past few years into making sure we all know that he believes that.

I'd comment on what I think of that, but I think I just did.

POINT 2:

Okay, let's pretend that Sundialsvcs' scenario is accurate, and it was... oh, how does he put it? "A highly sophisticated demolition job". Well, who's the most likely suspect? The answer is still Al Qaeda. Duh. They'd previously attacked the same building with a huge amount of explosives back in 93, with the intention of bringing it down.

Last edited by dugan; 06-09-2016 at 08:22 PM.
 
Old 06-09-2016, 08:06 PM   #9
frankbell
LQ Guru
 
Registered: Jan 2006
Location: Virginia, USA
Distribution: Slackware, Ubuntu MATE, Mageia, and whatever VMs I happen to be playing with
Posts: 17,217
Blog Entries: 27

Rep: Reputation: 5315Reputation: 5315Reputation: 5315Reputation: 5315Reputation: 5315Reputation: 5315Reputation: 5315Reputation: 5315Reputation: 5315Reputation: 5315Reputation: 5315
Next up, chem trails.
 
Old 06-09-2016, 08:15 PM   #10
jefro
Moderator
 
Registered: Mar 2008
Posts: 20,666

Rep: Reputation: 3333Reputation: 3333Reputation: 3333Reputation: 3333Reputation: 3333Reputation: 3333Reputation: 3333Reputation: 3333Reputation: 3333Reputation: 3333Reputation: 3333
My father was right about some things in life. He was however dedicated to some odd beliefs. One, from his time, was the attack on Pearl Harbor. He believed that the US knew about the attacks and let it happen. The idea has floated all these years still but the majority of people believe it to be silly nonsense. Someone would have had to confess on their death bed for sure that they were part of such a heinous scheme.

Our Pearl Harbor is 9/11. Again the idea that some large collection of secret villains are behind this heinous act yet no one has admitted it. No proof exists from the thousand of New Yorker's that were in the area for those years between the original parking lot bombing and the planes. You'd think someone would have noticed something. My sister and brother in law would go to meetings in those buildings and were blocks away that day by. They claim they saw just a total failure of the building. The building was unique, it's fire proofing totally lacking, fire suppression was lacking due to the false belief in the fire proofing. The ability to stomp on an empty soda/beer can proves that this failure exists in the design.

I personally watched what was live on tv that day along with millions and can't possible agree with any sort of controlled demolition. There is zero delay between what people suspect as high velocity explosions and the falling of the material. In every other controlled explosion you see the explosion and then after a time, the material begins to shift.

But, who knows, might be some massively complex scheme with thousands of people working non-stop for years to do this evil deed only to find they were Americans. I prefer to take the simple route most times. It was a small number of scum sucking al qaeda with a somewhat simple plan and got lucky.

Last edited by jefro; 06-09-2016 at 08:46 PM.
 
Old 06-09-2016, 08:29 PM   #11
sundialsvcs
LQ Guru
 
Registered: Feb 2004
Location: SE Tennessee, USA
Distribution: Gentoo, LFS
Posts: 9,078
Blog Entries: 4

Rep: Reputation: 3187Reputation: 3187Reputation: 3187Reputation: 3187Reputation: 3187Reputation: 3187Reputation: 3187Reputation: 3187Reputation: 3187Reputation: 3187Reputation: 3187
Quote:
Originally Posted by dugan View Post
Sundialsvcs believes that the hijackers aimed for the exact floors where the explosives were planted (by actors that he doesn't specify, at times that he doesn't specify). And that they managed to hit those exact floors with their jumbo jets. And that the explosives planted on those floors survived both the impact (of jumbo jets crashing into them) and the fire. And that those "explosives" (I think we've earned quotes now) were set off (somehow, by someone) only after the fires on those floors had burned for over an hour. He has invested a lot of time over the past few years into making sure we all know that he believes that.
"Quite an interesting (and, quite disparaging ...) comment" that you have just made here, sir.

In my view, the hijackers, and the planes, had nothing to do with it. "Skyscrapers in New York are designed to withstand the impact of errant airplanes." (After all, an airplane did "get lost in the fog" and crashed into the Empire State Building.) The design of the WTC1&2 towers necessarily had to consider that possibility ... and, they did.

When the airplanes crashed into the towers, you saw a plume of flame from the other side of the building as, basically, their entire load of kerosene went up in smoke. "New York's Finest fire-fighters" of-course ignored this, as they were trained to do, because they "knew" that an airplane-impact could and would be absorbed.

No matter what kind of kerosene-fueled conflagration you might ignite on the upper floors of a steel building, those fires are not capable of causing that building "to collapse into its own footprint in eight seconds flat." Nor are they capable of causing an unrelated building to ... do the same thing ... many hours later.

Basically, you have to confront what your eyeballs are actually telling you: that "airplanes could not have been enough(!)" to account for what subsequently happened ... to t-h-r-e-e buildings.

... and, if this does not scare the hell out of you(!!), as you find yourself obliged to cast "the official cover stories explanations" out the window ... then, it damn well should!

Someone staged an act of war, in the very heartland of America, in a way that has not existed in the entire history of "acts of war." They did it with great cunning and astonishing technical sophistication, and they did it right under our nose.

Oh, it would be so easy to "just blame it on airplanes." Oh, that would be such an easy way out. Because, "what remains, will not only beg you to lock your doors at night, but to take up permanent residence in a very deep hole."

Basically ... if you don't immediately pander to "the official explanation," the only remaining alternative should "scare the shit out of you."

Also: "Even though I do not wear tin-foil hats, I do not necessarily content myself with 'official explanations.'" I also have a brain, and I am content to use it. "The attack on Pearl Harbor," say, was "a conventional military attack," and so we "conventionally knew" what to do about it. But, this attack was totally different. Not only did we not see it coming ("NORAD, in all its Cold War glory, uttered not a peep ..."), but it happened right under our noses, for more than six hours. (Hours after "the unspeakable had just happened," a third(!) building fell into its footprint. A p-a-r-t-i-c-u-l-a-r "third building," which by-the-way tossed our entire "emergency preparations for the City of New York" into the slime-pit of laughingstock.

(Long after you had "spent #CLASSIFIED# dollars armoring the middle-floors of that building against 'every conceivable eventuality'" ... someone demolitioned ... the ... whole ... damned ... thing.) Right-the-hell under your oh-so-official nose.

Obviously, you have two choices. "The easy, official, guv'mint sanctioned one" is to breathe deeply of the official 'air.'" (And, to reflexively discredit anyone-and-everyone who asks questions.) The much more difficult (and entirely un-"official" ...) alternative is ... ... ...

As for me, when I ponder that someone has actually succeeded in "the world's most disastrous (so far?) and creative(!!) Act of War," I want to know everything that I possibly can know about this bastard person(s). I have no time for the Balm of Gilead.

Last edited by sundialsvcs; 06-09-2016 at 08:50 PM.
 
Old 06-09-2016, 08:46 PM   #12
dugan
LQ Guru
 
Registered: Nov 2003
Location: Canada
Distribution: distro hopper
Posts: 9,985

Rep: Reputation: 4568Reputation: 4568Reputation: 4568Reputation: 4568Reputation: 4568Reputation: 4568Reputation: 4568Reputation: 4568Reputation: 4568Reputation: 4568Reputation: 4568
Quote:
Originally Posted by frankbell View Post
Next up, chem trails.
We do have an unusual concentration of conspiracy theorists and people with fringe beliefs.
 
Old 06-09-2016, 08:49 PM   #13
jefro
Moderator
 
Registered: Mar 2008
Posts: 20,666

Rep: Reputation: 3333Reputation: 3333Reputation: 3333Reputation: 3333Reputation: 3333Reputation: 3333Reputation: 3333Reputation: 3333Reputation: 3333Reputation: 3333Reputation: 3333
There have been a number of PBS shows on it. They documented the video footage of the buildings when under construction. They documented the fact that the fire proofing used back then was flawed. It could NOT support a jet liner, it might have supported a nearly empty WW2 bomber plane.
 
Old 06-09-2016, 08:58 PM   #14
sundialsvcs
LQ Guru
 
Registered: Feb 2004
Location: SE Tennessee, USA
Distribution: Gentoo, LFS
Posts: 9,078
Blog Entries: 4

Rep: Reputation: 3187Reputation: 3187Reputation: 3187Reputation: 3187Reputation: 3187Reputation: 3187Reputation: 3187Reputation: 3187Reputation: 3187Reputation: 3187Reputation: 3187
Quote:
Originally Posted by jefro View Post
There have been a number of PBS shows on it. They documented the video footage of the buildings when under construction. They documented the fact that the fire proofing used back then was flawed. It could NOT support a jet liner, it might have supported a nearly empty WW2 bomber plane.
To me, that is much too simple-minded an explanation. You're basically asserting that the engineers who designed this building ... were not only "incompetent," but "criminally negligent." That they knew less ... much(!) less ... about building design than did the designers of the Empire State Building.

And you are also "conveniently throwing under the bus" the entire planning and building-inspections department of the City and the State of New York, as though somehow they knew nothing about the proper design of skyscrapers!

"Fire-proofing" is one thing ... but no amount of "fire-proofing" melts steel.

(And: nothing "melts steel, simultaneously, from the top of the world's tallest buildings, all the way to the bottom, in eight seconds flat.")

No amount of "fire-proofing" turns "the very careful design of professional engineers" into something that collapses into its own footprint in eight seconds ... whether or not(!) an airplane had just crashed into it.

Gentlebeings, we are confronted by an entirely new threat. Our ("World War II" era) "armies" are not proof against it, and neither are our ("Cold War" era) nuclear bombs. The perpetrators of this attack were anything but amateur, and their attack-plan was not accomplished in a single day. "Airliners were nothing more than a technically-irrelevant side show."

"Were those engineers, somehow, 'insanely incompetent?'" N-o.

"Was our enemy far more diabolical, patient, cunning, and sophisticated, than we had ever given him credit for?" Y-e-s.

"Could 'a hundred aircraft-carriar battle groups, at #CLASSIFIED# dollars apiece,' have done anything to prevent this?" N-o.

We have a lot to think about. (Not just "in America," but throughout the planet.) But, the first(!) thing that we must do ... is to soberly regard "the cards as they have been dealt."

Only then can we devise an effective response. Gruesome and utterly unthinkable though this scenario might be, we must not turn away in favor of "official explanations." Thanks, but no thanks. When the lives of more than 360 million citizens hang in the balance, nothing less than "the brutal truth" will do. To counter this, everyone's thinking-caps must be turned on, not off.

Last edited by sundialsvcs; 06-09-2016 at 09:07 PM.
 
Old 06-09-2016, 09:11 PM   #15
dugan
LQ Guru
 
Registered: Nov 2003
Location: Canada
Distribution: distro hopper
Posts: 9,985

Rep: Reputation: 4568Reputation: 4568Reputation: 4568Reputation: 4568Reputation: 4568Reputation: 4568Reputation: 4568Reputation: 4568Reputation: 4568Reputation: 4568Reputation: 4568
Quote:
Originally Posted by jefro View Post
There have been a number of PBS shows on it. They documented the video footage of the buildings when under construction. They documented the fact that the fire proofing used back then was flawed. It could NOT support a jet liner, it might have supported a nearly empty WW2 bomber plane.
The fire proofing materials were moved by the impact anyway, no?

Last edited by dugan; 06-09-2016 at 09:14 PM.
 
  


Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
[SOLVED] Can anyone recommend a replacement RSS reader after google reader kicks the bucket H5X00R Linux - Mobile 6 06-11-2013 04:47 PM
problem with sim card reader/multicard reader ut0ugh1 Linux - Hardware 11 11-27-2012 09:04 AM
Need recommendation for RSS reader with Google Reader integration/sync TobiSGD Linux - Software 5 06-01-2012 09:00 PM
Slim free PDF Reader as alternative to Adobe Reader cccc Debian 6 10-14-2010 02:51 PM
HP Photosmart 7550 w/ Flash Card Reader on Suse 9.3. Card Reader and Print Sharing Desert Linux - Hardware 0 07-25-2005 08:25 PM

LinuxQuestions.org > Forums > Non-*NIX Forums > General

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:19 AM.

Main Menu
Advertisement
My LQ
Write for LQ
LinuxQuestions.org is looking for people interested in writing Editorials, Articles, Reviews, and more. If you'd like to contribute content, let us know.
Main Menu
Syndicate
RSS1  Latest Threads
RSS1  LQ News
Twitter: @linuxquestions
Open Source Consulting | Domain Registration