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Old 03-14-2005, 04:02 PM   #16
trickykid
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Quote:
Originally posted by KimVette
No kidding.

Hint: drilling can be done in an environmentally-responsible manner.
Humans are not as responsible as you think, especially the oil companies.. they can't even make it across the pacific without dumping their oil at times in a boat bigger than rhode island..

You know, if it were 60 years worth of oil, I can see the benefit.. 6 months worth though? How is this beneficial? Its the oil companies wanting to make quick dirty money without any regards to preserving natural habitats.

It's time to find alternatives to oil instead of using it all up before its too late.

Stricter punishments are a joke when it comes to large corporations. Yeah, company A gets fined 20k per barrel of toxic waste they dump into the ocean but they make 1 million a day... it saves them money to dump barrels of toxic waste into the ocean and get fined rather than spending money to do it in a safer way..
 
Old 03-14-2005, 04:12 PM   #17
trickykid
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But in all fairness, I didn't create this thread to argue, but more of those that do care to act to stop it. I'm tired of people who complain but never take an action. It's like the people who complain about their president or senator but didn't vote. Don't take action or vote, don't complain and move on.
 
Old 03-14-2005, 04:24 PM   #18
KimVette
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Oh, I'll be taking action by voicing my support for more drilling, providing it is done responsibly. I'll become a treehugger when liberals first quit living in heated homes and move back to caves, teepees, wig-wams, lean-tos, and tents.
 
Old 03-14-2005, 04:25 PM   #19
trickykid
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Quote:
Originally posted by KimVette
Oh, I'll be taking action by voicing my support for more drilling, providing it is done responsibly. I'll become a treehugger when liberals first quit living in heated homes and move back to caves, teepees, wig-wams, lean-tos, and tents.
All power to you then!
 
Old 03-14-2005, 04:27 PM   #20
KimVette
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Quote:
Originally posted by trickykid
Humans are not as responsible as you think, especially the oil companies.. they can't even make it across the pacific without dumping their oil at times in a boat bigger than rhode island..
Hence my support for making boards of directors and upper management subject to CRIMINAL in addition to civil penalties when their companies make messes and neglect to clean it up, or are simply negligent and are discovered to not be following safety regulations even if nothing bad has happened "yet"

Of course there would have to be exceptions for acts of God, war, and of course terrorism but some effort to limit or prevent damage even in those cases should be undertaken (e.g., double-walled piping, etc.)
 
Old 03-14-2005, 04:28 PM   #21
Blinker_Fluid
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Quote:
Originally posted by trickykid
You know, if it were 60 years worth of oil, I can see the benefit.. 6 months worth though? How is this beneficial? Its the oil companies wanting to make quick dirty money without any regards to preserving natural habitats.
hmm according to http://www.anwr.org/ My state could go for over 200 years on the oil...
 
Old 03-14-2005, 04:30 PM   #22
trickykid
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Quote:
Originally posted by Blinker_Fluid
hmm according to http://www.anwr.org/ My state could go for over 200 years on the oil...
And its states like Texas that would survive 9 years alone on it..
 
Old 03-14-2005, 04:49 PM   #23
Blinker_Fluid
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Quote:
Originally posted by trickykid
And its states like Texas that would survive 9 years alone on it..
Sounds like a texas problem to me... Maybe we can sell them to Mexico...
 
Old 03-14-2005, 04:50 PM   #24
amosf
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Keep it in someone elses back yard. Who cares about the wildlife in the persian gulf after all...
 
Old 03-14-2005, 05:05 PM   #25
darkRoom
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Quote:
Oh, I'll be taking action by voicing my support for more drilling, providing it is done responsibly. I'll become a treehugger when liberals first quit living in heated homes and move back to caves, teepees, wig-wams, lean-tos, and tents.
Why do insist on viewing things through such simplistic ideas ? So everyone against drilling is a hippy liberal ? This is about making a simple economic decision for what should be best for the people of said country where drilling is taking place.

It doesn't take a genius to see that since use of oil is ineffcient and polluting and since its gonna run out soon anyway we'd be much better investing in more sustainable solutions - you'd probably find seal beating, tree felling, SUV driving economists who'd agree with that logic

Unfortunately in this case the decision is being taken by oil companies on behalf of their share holders and other third parties who may benefit. But thats another story, im just disappointed that the use of alternative energies and new technologies doesn't seem to excite that many people.
 
Old 03-14-2005, 05:55 PM   #26
KimVette
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On the contrary!

I fully support the windfarm proposed for Nantucket Sound. However, the self-proclaimed environmentalist Senator Kennedy opposes it. His reasoning? He thinks it will be unsightly when he's out cruising in his yacht. I kid you not. Keep in mind that the closest windmill would be six miles from shore.

It would help the environment by decreasing New England's dependence on fossil fuels, it would provide a great habitat for young marine life, and it actually would look quite neat.

So, it seems that liberal treehuggers are for environmental responsibility - only when the impact is not in their own back yard.

I support responsible nuclear power.
I support responsible mining.
I support responsible drilling.
I support responsible clean power.

It is in our own best interests to improve efficiency; but not at the expense of reducing our quality of life. We can maintain our quality of life AND use resources, providing we harvest the resources in an environmentally-friendly manner. Unfortunately, it is the liberals who wield the simplistic view: "some people fudged up so let's drill NO oil!"

No, let's criminalize environmental mishaps and allow harvesting of said resources - RESPONSIBLY. Not taking reasonable safeguards should be punishible by mandatory jail time, whether or not a mishap takes place. Double-walled or triple-walled pipelines should be required. Pressure relief valves dumping into a reservoir or a return pipeline into some other form of containment or into an alternate pipeline should be a requirement. Drug/alcohol testing should be a requirement, as should a mandatory amount of sleep for inspectors and security personnel who maintain oil wells and refineries.

To say that we ought to not use the resources because in the past a few people have screwed up is the retarded simplistic view.
 
Old 03-14-2005, 05:56 PM   #27
floppywhopper
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We need a big huge nuclear war so everybody is killed off and cockroaches take over the planet before humans go and infect other planets with their corporate greed and stupidity.

I'm with you trickykid but I dont think they will listen to a kiwi living in Oz.

But I am surprised at you lot with your faith in big corporations after all the microsoft bashing that goes on here in these forums...

floppy
 
Old 03-14-2005, 06:05 PM   #28
speel
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Quote:
Originally posted by trickykid

And I want to gas prices to keep rising, maybe give Americans a wakeup call on their resource consumption..
yea real funny
 
Old 03-14-2005, 06:29 PM   #29
bigjohn
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Quote:
Originally posted by floppywhopper

-----%<-----
But I am surprised at you lot with your faith in big corporations after all the microsoft bashing that goes on here in these forums...
-----%<-----
Concur. When it comes to Nature/Wildlife Vs Corporate Planet/Dick-less, ambitious, greedy corporate Exec's then the Nature/Wildlife will always loose, unless the later can see a decent markup in it!

Quote:
Originally posted by KimVette
Hence my support for making boards of directors and upper management subject to CRIMINAL in addition to civil penalties when their companies make messes and neglect to clean it up, or are simply negligent and are discovered to not be following safety regulations even if nothing bad has happened "yet"
-----%<-----
In a similar vein, here in UK, whenever someone gets killed at work in a vvv public way, or in a manner that can in someway be blamed on "big business" (quite often in a "health & safety" way), various pressure groups press for a manslaughter conviction.

Thus far, it hasn't happened (to a company). It seems to me that the British judiciary are very weary about it, because I'm of the opinion that they don't want it to be them that "develops" the offence of "Corporate Manslaughter", by accident i.e. via legal precedent, rather that they seem to keep finding reasons to only find individuals guilty of manslaughter in that way, because they seem to think that it should be up to the government to make corporate manslaughter a specific offence - which also is unlikely to happen any time soon, because if they tried, you can bet yer arse that the corporate lobbying that they'd be hit with would be massive.

Afterall, who stands to loose? Well, obviously those with the money to pay for such despicable lobbying tactics a.k.a. Big Business a.k.a. vested interests etc etc.

That way, they just keep on "paying lipservice" to the health & safety legislation, and of course, their costs down!


As for the trickykids original post, I was under the impression that there was supposed to be absolutely shitloads of Oil under Alaska? Or at least, that's what I'd previously understood from press coverage, so when did things (or maybe just the amounts of alledged reserves) change ??

regards

John

Last edited by bigjohn; 03-14-2005 at 06:45 PM.
 
Old 03-14-2005, 06:30 PM   #30
gulo
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I've been running on alternative fuel (E85 rather than gasoline) for almost two years now.
Quite frankly, the stuff is much better than regular gasoline. It's 110 octane, the same
or higher than racing fuel, it burns ultra clean, is renewable and domestic and can contribute
very very little to global warming since all the carbon put back into the atmosphere when burned
was taken out of the atmosphere the prior growing season, for a net of zero in a perfect system.
Given, right now, the system we use is rather young and not as efficient as it could be. We're
getting about 140% the energy out that we put in at the moment, but the technology does
exist that gets 160% out as is put in but hasn't been implemented on any large scale yet.

I find it absolutely appalling that this fuel isn't widely available around the country. Our
government is failing us on alternative fuels.

Likewise, it's quite difficult to find a Bio-D pump anywhere.

It would make a hell of a lot more sense to invest money into producing more
cellulose based ethanol than invest billions into a war for oil (or for the benefit
of Haliburton) and/or to invest a lot into drilling into Alaska.

Another better use for the funds would be to get Yucca Mtn up and running
and then build modern reactors. We don't have a great shortage of natural gas.
The prices are going up because it's being burned to produce electricity, which is
so stupid. Every time you convert energy from one form to another, there's a net-loss.
NG can be used directly at the consumer level, either in home heating or as an auto
fuel...

How about photo voltaic? The technology exists to shingle homes with PV cells that
can be hooked to the grid to make every home an electricity producer. Market entry costs
are too high for most ppl to even consider this, so why not subsidize that industry in an
equal way to the petroleum industry (which is heavily subsidized).
 
  


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