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Old 07-13-2016, 09:29 PM   #76
frankbell
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As George Washington Plunkett once said,

Quote:
There's honest graft and there's dishonest graft.
That some cops are seduced by money does not disturb me, really, all that much. Cops are human. Whenever you get a large enough number of humans together in one place, some of them will be bent. One expects management to weed out the bent ones.

When management is bent, well, that's a much larger problem.
 
Old 07-14-2016, 08:46 AM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alberich View Post
Well, Freedom fighters, that would imply that majority of the police force are evil.

I am not certain about USA, but I guess that the majority of the police over there too are trying to get work done. And we need Police, don't we?

German police are quite different from American police.
 
Old 07-14-2016, 01:08 PM   #78
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In the 1940's and 1950's when I was young, police officers were assigned to specific areas and the residents and the police officers got to know one another!! Over the years that policy changed because the politicians wanted the police to " enhance revenue " with nickel and dime petty offenses; and the police unions wanted the best " under the table pad money " locations!! High crime areas are not where police officers want to be; and their attitudes reflect that fact!! In these United States there is also the vast problem of women with children but no husband!! Those children do not have any idea how to interact with male police officers that are not going to sugar coat life to them!! When I was growing up this country was extremely different than the way it is now; and no one really wants to deal with any of the many problems of our society!!
 
Old 07-14-2016, 01:20 PM   #79
alberich
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Originally Posted by cousinlucky View Post
In the 1940's and 1950's when I was young, police officers were assigned to specific areas and the residents and the police officers got to know one another!!
That is a sensible, if not the only sensible way to handle things. If the police are rotating in a city for example, I think that must lead to alienation and anonymisation. And even worse, each one can and will behave towards the other party out of any mood and probably uncorrectly, because these unnerving/exchangable policemen/citizens you soon will never see again, thank God.

What is the benefit of this?
 
Old 07-17-2016, 03:13 PM   #80
Jeebizz
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Post Baton Rouge: Three US police officers shot dead

"Three police officers have been killed and three injured in a shooting in the southern US city of Baton Rouge."

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-36820782



If this keeps up, I won't be surprised marital law being implemented and tanks driving through the streets. I still do not see how these morons think they are helping their cause by killing cops.

Last edited by Jeebizz; 07-17-2016 at 03:15 PM.
 
Old 07-17-2016, 04:42 PM   #81
mostlyharmless
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Quote:
...If the police are rotating in a city for example, I think that must lead to alienation and anonymisation. And even worse, each one can and will behave towards the other party out of any mood and probably uncorrectly, because these unnerving/exchangable policemen/citizens you soon will never see again, thank God.
But isn't that the case with so many things these days? Healthcare? Grocery shopping? Any sort of interaction with what used to be customer service?

Interchangeable parts in a corporate structure is the Zeitgeist.
 
Old 07-17-2016, 10:04 PM   #82
sundialsvcs
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A citizen whom you'll never know, and who lives in a neighborhood that you'd never go into, came home to find her front door open.

I need a volunteer, please, to: "go in there, and check it out." Could be "nothing but the wind." Could be "a careless burglar." Could be ... god knows what. But, no matter what it is, "y-o-u, goddam it" are going to be the first one to find out.

"And, by the way, you do this for a living," even though you haven't got a pay-increase in three years.

I said I need a volunteer, please!

A volunteer to be: "a cop."

===
Need another example? Okay, "blue lights on the Interstate." Only, now you are the one in that blue-lights car. It's one o'clock in the morning, and this stripped-down looking car has been driving w-a-y too fast, as though he's in a helluva hurry to get somewhere. Yeah, you've got a network. Yeah, you've run the plates. Yeah, "central" knows who you are. But ... now, it's time to open the door and get out.

"Y-o-u, goddam it" are going to be the one who gets to walk up to that car, and to "whoever or whatever" might be inside. It could be a cold-sober gentleman who dabbles in hot-rods for fun, and who's just anxious to go make love to his wife. Or-r-r-r...

Last edited by sundialsvcs; 07-17-2016 at 10:09 PM.
 
Old 07-18-2016, 08:03 AM   #83
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A cop selected this carrer, and he is payed, trained and armed for the job, probably he did not apply for a boring job, too.

So that is not exactly the definition for some kind of noble volunteer.

Nevertheless it is correct that cops are folks who expose themselves to these dangerous situations and to a whole lot of stress and that on a regular basis!

It is uncorrect to forget or deny that, and one should have some respect for normal guys doing this work.

When policeforce don't have respect for citizens and their rights, and when citizens don't have respect for the work and rights of policeforce that is wrong.

In my opinion policeforce and citizens are partners. Even a decent criminal and a decent cop do have some respect for each other in my view.

Last edited by alberich; 07-18-2016 at 08:07 AM.
 
Old 07-18-2016, 12:51 PM   #84
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To the extent that a society limits its government to policing functions which curb the individuals who engage in aggressive and criminal actions, and conducts its economic affairs on the basis of free and willing exchange, to that extent domestic peace prevails. When a society departs from this norm, its governing class begins, in effect, to make war upon the rest of the nation. A situation is created in which everyone is victimized by everyone else under the fiction of each living at the expense of all.– Edmund A. Opitz
 
Old 07-19-2016, 06:46 AM   #85
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"(CNN)Baton Rouge Police Chief Carl Dabadie Jr. said Monday that the attack that killed three law enforcement officers and wounded three others showed why militarized police tactics are needed."

http://www.cnn.com/2016/07/18/us/bat...ing/index.html


So, is it a bad thing now that police have military training? I congratulate that person.

Last edited by Jeebizz; 07-19-2016 at 06:49 AM.
 
Old 07-19-2016, 07:12 AM   #86
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Are the police not already trained for shootings with armed parties?

Training is always good, they should have one or two two-day courses on military tactics, of how to retreat and protect themselves before SWAT, etc., arrives.

By the way that is not gonna help against some trained lunatic setting up an ambush...

Apart from that training for sure they should have a two month-course on deescalation and maybe another extra one-month-course of how to reduce use of deadly force. That regarding their everyday work.

In singular incidents like these (and two or even ten cases around the country is still singular events if you compare it to the millions of hours of regular police work...) it's take cover behind a vehicle motor, or generally run. And fire back several times a few dozen rounds from around a solid corner of a stone wall.

Another thing is I think the population should not overreact if a dozen of policemen uses premature deadly force, half of them still out of fear rather than malice. So even if injustice or harassment is commited even broader then that, that should not be a reason for riots... As there are probably a majority of policemen doing a reasonable job. And for 'black lifes matter' - I think american policeforce agree. It is not like policeman roaming around shooting every coloured citizens in any checkup?

Last edited by alberich; 07-19-2016 at 07:22 AM.
 
Old 07-19-2016, 07:37 AM   #87
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No. Shootings tend to be somewhat random and opportunistic and uncommon in most cities. The vast majority of police in the US say the same things - Example: "I spent 25 years on the force and never once drew my service weapon on a citizen". Some cities, however, vary wildly from the norm. Don't forget it is extremely difficult for Europeans to grasp just how big the US is. As of 2014 there were roughly 320,000,000 (yup...million!) citizens in the US and almost 3 times as large as Europe. France is smaller than each of 2 of our 50 states. If you could drive the entire distance across it's width at over 110 kph the trip time would be roughly 43 hours. If you look at Google Earth for a night view you will see there are very few "dark spots" compared to other similarly sized countries giving clues to how densely populated (and possibly by some standards, wasteful) we are.

Far more insidious and widespread than shootings is less than fair is intimidation and incarceration of lower classes.

Last edited by enorbet; 07-19-2016 at 07:38 AM.
 
Old 07-19-2016, 07:47 AM   #88
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Originally Posted by enorbet View Post
'I spent 25 years on the force and never once drew my service weapon on a citizen'
Thanks for mentioning this. I think and hope many realise this and keep cool heads.

I am aware of the USA having vast territories and huge populations. I understand that the problems focus on several urban areas, and that is also to be expected.

Yes, the USA is known for incarcerating a large fraction of their citizens... There has to be something wrong with this in the view of many foks thinking about this

What is unnerving me is the group dynamics and the effect that media coverage of events has in general.

I am seeing large portions of irrationality in reactions also elsewhere on the globe in human societies.

The irrationality of the masses frightens me, and I know the world is seeing big and unnecessary troubles between folks because of these mass media / group dynamics / lack of reflection issues.

And that's why I don't trust collectives generally, they behave randomly irrational and at times malevolent.

Last edited by alberich; 07-19-2016 at 07:50 AM.
 
Old 07-19-2016, 09:02 AM   #89
sundialsvcs
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I think that, when you consider the millions of law-enforcement officers that are out there, putting their own lives at considerable risk for complete strangers, the ones who deliberately or fearfully do the wrong thing is a minuscule minority.

However, those few deserve to be punished: to be tried for assault and/or for murder, and to be found innocent or guilty as the case may be in a trial by jury.

"Militarization" of police forces was, in my view, a direct offshoot of what post-9/11 laws handed to military-industrial contractors, who suddenly had a new market for their gear and a place to get rid of stuff that the Army didn't want. I'm not saying that elevated levels of training are not appropriate, but when the police drive up to an ordinary situation in an armored personnel carrier with machine-guns, something has gone seriously wrong. To a certain extent, the amount of firepower you bring to a situation determines how that situation is going to play out.

The police chief of a local city is taking an interesting approach to gang violence: he's putting a phone number and a web site on signs placed throughout "rough" neighborhoods. "If you want to get out of a gang ... if your family needs help ... call on us. We're Your Police." And, it seems to be working. Respondents are put in contact with social organizations that have sometimes carried food and mattresses into homes that turned out to have squalid conditions inside. Gangs were preying on the children of those desperate families, telling them that gang-hood was the only way out. The police chief is out to prove them wrong, and to do it, visibly, "in the name of the police."
 
Old 07-19-2016, 12:04 PM   #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enorbet View Post
If you could drive the entire distance across it's width at over 110 kph the trip time would be roughly 43 hours.
Hi all...

This reminds me of the trip I took from Oregon to Delaware and back in 1996-7 (to attend the U of D as an exchange student for a semester, although originally planned to be a year.) I drove a 1994 Chevy S-10 pickup and it took me five days, driving 8-10 hours each day, to get back there. That was an interesting and memorable trip in ways, including the three months I spent back there.

Regards...

Last edited by ardvark71; 07-19-2016 at 12:08 PM. Reason: Added wordage.
 
  


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