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Old 08-08-2002, 05:52 AM   #1
La Temperanza
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Sign these two petitions!

These bills are an unbelievable affront to our privacy and security, and will affect even Linux users in the USA who never pirate. (any of you good boys out there?) If either these acts pass, and your distribution refuses to implement the required federal spyware, you will be considered a criminal by your own government. Don't let it happen; sign and you might just make a difference.
Old 08-08-2002, 09:03 AM   #2
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All this is about is piracy of digital media. And piracy is illegal - in most places anyway

If piracy is allowed to continue at the current levels of growth then it is likely to seriously damage the film and music industries.

I'm not saying that this kind of measure is right or wrong, but I suspect that most opposition to any kind of copyright enforcement is going to come from the guys who are towards the top of the copyright infringment food chain. And from hackers

I am not perfect myself and I don't really know where to stand on this issue. To me my privacy is a birth right, and I'll be damned if I'm going to give it up easily, but then again, I would hate to see my favorite record labels bite the bullet because they cannot sustain a revenue stream.

Basically, most downloads over P2P networks infringe copyright, aka THEFT!.. DC claims it has 5 petebytes of data online and shared right now most of which is copyrighted. It's simply too damn easy to obtain copyrighted works these days, which is why there are guys who will infringe on your privacy, given the chance, to stem the flow. Piracy will never be cut out completely, and when it get back to sustainable levels (basically, when those in the know are at it, rather than the average user) things will settle down again and you'll be able to continue getting what you want for free (by 'you' I mean anyone who has the means and desire)

This is a pretty big issue, and what will we do if movie companies have to stop Arnie from blowing up 'that building too' because they can't affor to pay a demolition expert to stick around for another day, and all the music that's left to listen to is TOP40 crap 'cause all the indy labels are bust. I think that this is where we are headed at the moment...

Plus we should remember that theft is wrong.

Last edited by fatgod; 08-08-2002 at 09:11 AM.
Old 08-08-2002, 09:58 AM   #3
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I checked out the petitions; the first is primarily about paladium style copyright enfringement prevention hardware. The nifty part that I didn't know was that the aim is to criminalize, as in felony, the removal of that chip. 5 years and 1/2 a mil...

If I cut the catalytic converter off my car (here in GA), stuff my mattress tags in the tail pipe along with an endangered muskrat or somesuch, I can't be put away for 5 years... but clip a drm chip and I've wandered into the same felony schedule as assault and DUI? Nah, this'll never pass; and if it does someone from 2600 or the FSF will get themselves arrested on purpose so they can get a test case with some solid 4th Amendment backing...


Old 08-08-2002, 05:50 PM   #4
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Fin, if you are reffering to White House it is 1600, or I am missing something here?
Old 08-08-2002, 07:12 PM   #5
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1600 LOL dude... he's talkin bout 2600 !!!! DuH!
Old 08-08-2002, 07:18 PM   #6
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So how come theres 2 different petitions? They change the name after reviewing the bill?
Old 08-08-2002, 07:32 PM   #7
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Last edited by neo77777; 08-08-2002 at 07:33 PM.
Old 08-09-2002, 04:04 AM   #8
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Well fatgod I would have to kindly disagree with you. I believe that currently the music industry altogether is jacked. Record labels mean about zilch to me, and they seem to be getting a pretty hefty profit. I was on the fence for a very long time, not deciding one way or the other until Offspring decided to embrace d/ling mp3's. They were going to offer their entire album on their website for d/l for free as mp3. The cd would offer a bit more, but the music was free. What I want you to read here very clearly is "Offspring wanted to allow their fans to download the music that they created, that they spent their time and creativity on, that they (I believe) should have all rights to, for free. Now Sony was their record label. Well sony got a bug up their a$$es and decided that they wouldn't see all kinds of money from this, and threatened OFFSPRING with a "we will drop you if you do that" threat. This of course led to a different approach from Offspring, and the allowance of d/l the entire album from their website was taken away.

This torqued me beyond anything.

Anyway, from that time forward, I felt/feel that until the artist can decide what is done with their very own music, I don't think anyone else has the right to choose either. Therefore, d/l mp3's over your favorite P2P is not only not wrong, but more right than what the he!! is going on between the artist and the label co.

As far as movies/software/pictures and whatever else is shared, those are different ballparks alltogether. However, since I have started, I will finish telling you how I feel on the rest of the "shared files".

If I were good buddies/neighbors with you, and I go over to your house and you pull out the new "Lord of the Rings" DVD, I should be able to watch it without having JRR Tolkien knockin at the door trying to take your DVD back. Ok, so you you decide to make a backup copy, just in case this gets destroyed, or to have to take with you and play on a laptop without a DVD drive, so you make an .avi copy on a separate CDR. Now a step further; let's say you allow me to borrow this movie indefinitely, take it home and watch it. Again, I should not have to worry about JRR Tolkien knockin on my door telling me to give back the movie. I think that d/ling a movie on P2P is no different.

Images belong to no one but the artist. There are certain images that should be seen by specific individuals (like Top Secret documents and such), but images are everyones. Artists again should have the ultimate control on this. If they wish to allow people to d/l their artwork, then it is their dicision, and their's alone.

This one is gray. I am not good on EULA's and Licenses, so I can only say what I think. If it's a shareware, freeware, GNU, or similar license, sharing it should not be any sort of an issue. If it's completely commercial, and has no shareware version of any sort, well then I guess this would be the ONLY thing I would say might be questionable on a P2P network. I will admit I was guilty of "procuring" these types of files, but in a losing defensive argument I will say that "those were back in me winbloze dayz", for the most part .

Books available on P2P's lack something that actual books have. I will read a book on P2P, and if it's got a decent opening chapter or 2, I will get the physical copy and read it. I think it's fine to have this type of thing shared, and I actual encourage it.

Well that's about it as far as I can think of anyway.

Hope I don't start a holy war on file sharing.

Old 08-16-2002, 12:42 PM   #9
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I am going to have to interject here....

I am not a fan of downloading music and other media as I do feel it takes profits away from the artist.

But that does not mean I supprot these bills one bit. In fact, if M$ chip was released, I will publically announce right here and everywhere that this chip will be taken off of my main board whether or not they want me to or not! Once I buy something, I should have the right to own it, and therefor do what I want with it, unless it can be considered theft.

From my standpoint, no one has ANY right to take away my rights or privacy for their own gain, especially financial.

As far how this would affect the Linux / BSD community... if this law passed there is a big issue then. For one, even if the Linux vendors did incorporate this software, you can still create your distro, or event ake it out upon installation.

Second, not every country will pass this same law, so how do they enforce anything on those people?

We shall see where this goes. And I will be waiting for my chance to take M$ and the privacy violators down real fast.... and it would be very public.


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