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Old 02-13-2019, 06:54 AM   #16
ondoho
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trihexagonal View Post
2012, p'haps?
Wild-eyed Woody Harrelson with a backdrop of Jellystone blowing its top?
yep, that must've been it.
possibly the worst movie i ever watched until the end. Entertainment is strange...
Everything Wrong With 2012 - that is all you need to know about it. the particularly hilarious stuff starts ~8min in.
 
Old 02-13-2019, 08:46 AM   #17
Woolie Wool
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Originally Posted by jsbjsb001 View Post
Personally I think that the Russians will be far from the only ones doing this - assuming other countries haven't already got something similar in the works.

Similar to what enorbet was getting at; if we think about how the Internet has evolved, countries and people have become dependent on it for virtually, if not, everything you can think of. It doesn't matter what you're talking about, chances are most people now use the Internet for it, indeed the development of Linux itself has largely taken place over the Internet, particularly since it become widespread. I remember when you could look up how to build a bomb, and you knew that nobody, let alone government agencies were ever going to find out about it. You try that now, I'll almost guarantee you'll have the cops at your front door before you know it. When I was growing up, just having an email address meant you were the "odd one out", because you could guarantee that probably nobody else in maybe even your town, city, whatever had one. They'd probably never even heard of email before, now, who doesn't have an email address? I don't know anyone that doesn't have one.

Bearing all of this in mind, and getting back to the matter at hand; governments seem to be realising that a major cyber war is a very real possibility. So it only makes sense to "test the worst case scenario", and any good test of that involves the question of; what would happen if the country WAS "offline", and Internet access was totally cut? The only way to find out before any major cyber war starts is to cut all Internet access and see how the country handles that.

In terms of the Russians, it's pretty clear to me that they are doing this to try and prepare for any actions by the US of A. As they know that the US of A could quite possibility do that, and does have the means to do exactly that. So it's really the "evolution" of war - being "cyber war". In terms of the Russians and the Americans, the new more modern "cold war".

Instead of "boots on the ground", it's done from behind a keyboard instead, because it does not involve sending soldiers to another country, they could just sit in a room at home and do it instead.
Forget major cyber war, there's a very real possibility of war war, maybe even with nuclear weapons. The post-WWII American-led global order is collapsing. American power and influence is in terminal decline. Europe no longer wants to depend on the US. Britain no longer wants to be part of Europe. China built its economy around the US as a primary export market and now must prepare for the potential of the US collapsing economically, turning inwards and rejecting its former allies, or even ceasing to exist as a single country.

The internet is an American invention, still largely running on American-designed hardware. Is it any surprise other nations are now considering the possibility of a future without it, where it is under the control of one or more hostile states, or where it has broken up into national or regional networks?
 
Old 02-14-2019, 08:25 AM   #18
enorbet
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woolie Wool View Post
The internet is an American invention, still largely running on American-designed hardware. Is it any surprise other nations are now considering the possibility of a future without it, where it is under the control of one or more hostile states, or where it has broken up into national or regional networks?
I seriously doubt that may even be possible but I am all but certain it would be inadvisable. While I'm equally certain many governments would dream of such control and isolation, they also realize they would "lose their place at the table" and suffer net loss (no pun intended). Most settle for controlling in part, not in toto. It IS a Global Economy and accepting the old slow paths of information are akin to trying to keep a job that you commute to by horse-drawn carriage. That might possibly be managed on an extremely small scale but in the Global Arena, is just unworkable. Any country or organization that cuts itself off completely will be left behind. The Internet exploded because it is viable and just like cars, busses and telephones what used to be a luxury is now a necessity.
 
Old 02-14-2019, 08:37 AM   #19
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Trust you to understand enorbet.

Glad someone understood the point I was making...
 
Old 02-18-2019, 11:53 AM   #20
Woolie Wool
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Originally Posted by enorbet View Post
I seriously doubt that may even be possible but I am all but certain it would be inadvisable. While I'm equally certain many governments would dream of such control and isolation, they also realize they would "lose their place at the table" and suffer net loss (no pun intended). Most settle for controlling in part, not in toto. It IS a Global Economy and accepting the old slow paths of information are akin to trying to keep a job that you commute to by horse-drawn carriage. That might possibly be managed on an extremely small scale but in the Global Arena, is just unworkable. Any country or organization that cuts itself off completely will be left behind. The Internet exploded because it is viable and just like cars, busses and telephones what used to be a luxury is now a necessity.

You're not getting it. The "Global Economy" is not some god that just exists on its own accord, and certainly does not deserve to be referred to as such with Capitalization. It is a temporary and very fragile system made possible by very particular social and economic arrangements. It was not here a few decades ago, and in a few decades more, it will be gone. National governments around the world are far more aware of this than consumers are and are already making contingency plans.
 
Old 02-18-2019, 04:05 PM   #21
enorbet
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Woolie Wool I suggest you read --- Capital in the Twenty-First Century --- This link is to the wiki and that's a start but the book is superb. I seriously doubt Global Economy will die out. It's way too useful and profitable.
 
Old 02-18-2019, 04:18 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enorbet View Post
I seriously doubt Global Economy will die out. It's way too useful and profitable.
Agreed. Also its too old! The "global economy" is nothing new, its been around since the Silk Road days. The world was actually much more connected then we are led to believe. Methods have changed, somewhat, fundamentals are still the same.

Ref:
https://en.unesco.org/silkroad/about-silk-road
https://orexca.com/silk_road.html
https://www.ancient.eu/Silk_Road/
 
Old 02-19-2019, 03:38 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by ChuangTzu View Post
Agreed. Also its too old! The "global economy" is nothing new, its been around since the Silk Road days. The world was actually much more connected then we are led to believe. Methods have changed, somewhat, fundamentals are still the same.

Ref:
https://en.unesco.org/silkroad/about-silk-road
https://orexca.com/silk_road.html
https://www.ancient.eu/Silk_Road/
Yep, here in the Tin Isles there was long-distance international trade long before our former Roman rulers arrived. I suspect W.W. was referring to a particular kind of world economy, which may well be fragile in some respects, but it seems to me that trade is more of a fact of life than any government, treaty or empire.
 
Old 02-19-2019, 05:44 AM   #24
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Woolie Wool, the superpowers rely on the "global economy" as much as the normal person does. There is a reason countries like China (and Russia) have their hacking units. If you take China for one, they are well known to steal other countries trade secrets by hacking into corporations all across the world, particularly the western world. Why? Well, it's really quite simple; to develop their own products with stolen ideas, and therefore, you guessed it, to SELL on the "global economy". Why? Because this brings in money to China, which equals: power and influence. The same as Russia wants to influence the US elections (and did). The only real difference these days is that it's done through hacking, using, you guessed it, the Internet.

What you're suggesting is entirely counter to all of that. So it's fairly obvious that Russia is simply making sure that their country can still function in the event of the US "pulling the plug" on their Internet. The new battle ground IS cyber warfare. If I know this, so do the superpowers...
 
Old 02-19-2019, 06:28 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChuangTzu View Post
Agreed. Also its too old! The "global economy" is nothing new, its been around since the Silk Road days.
I think it's important not to confuse/conflate a global economy with international trade.
 
Old 02-19-2019, 06:59 AM   #26
jsbjsb001
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cynwulf View Post
I think it's important not to confuse/conflate a global economy with international trade.
How do you have "international trade" without "economy's" ? There's no point sending goods elsewhere if there is no economy to sell those goods in. The "Silk Road" was an example of "international trade".
 
Old 02-19-2019, 04:53 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cynwulf View Post
I think it's important not to confuse/conflate a global economy with international trade.
cynwulf, there has been a global economy for almost 2 millennia. So I repeat, the global economy is nothing new.
 
Old 02-20-2019, 07:11 AM   #28
ntubski
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cynwulf View Post
I think it's important not to confuse/conflate a global economy with international trade.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChuangTzu View Post
cynwulf, there has been a global economy for almost 2 millennia. So I repeat, the global economy is nothing new.

You guys should probably define what each of you mean by "global economy", otherwise you may as well be throwing out buzzwords.
 
Old 02-20-2019, 10:20 AM   #29
Woolie Wool
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Originally Posted by enorbet View Post
Woolie Wool I suggest you read --- Capital in the Twenty-First Century --- This link is to the wiki and that's a start but the book is superb. I seriously doubt Global Economy will die out. It's way too useful and profitable.
I have not read that particular book, but whether something is useful and profitable has no bearing on whether it's sustainable. In fact, most things that are useful and profitable to capital are entirely unsustainable and will eventually collapse. It turns out building your entire society around the idea of growing exponentially forever and ever doesn't work out in the long run, who'd've thought?
 
Old 02-20-2019, 10:25 AM   #30
Woolie Wool
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Originally Posted by ChuangTzu View Post
cynwulf, there has been a global economy for almost 2 millennia. So I repeat, the global economy is nothing new.
This is not true. There has never been, before the fall of the Soviet Union, an integrated global economic system. Even the collapse of something as huge as the Roman Empire scarcely affected other regions of the world. Life in western Europe hardly changed even as Mongol domination swept across nearly all of Asia. And of course the societies Americas had only occasional and very brief contact with the rest of the world until the conquistadores invaded starting with Columbus.

E: Really wish I could merge this with the post above it and delete it.

Last edited by Woolie Wool; 02-20-2019 at 10:26 AM.
 
  


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